.22lr, effective round for self defense

Thank you for proving my point. You haven't the slightest idea what you are talking about relating to firearms, balistics or biology.

 

I don't remember seeing any military force from anywhere in the world (IDF included) using the .22 Long Rifle catridge in any of their main battle rifles or common duty pistols. Some elite forces use suppressed .22's for killing quitely up close on some missions, but these are rare cases.

Our butchers would use .22 rifles to shoot the steers in the head.

But... human enemies do not usually stand still like a dumb beast when they rush in to kill. Anyone who would risk their own safety on a .22, when they have had a choice to obtain anything better, deserves their fate.

 

but the IDF does use a .22lr and they used it to take down protestors with leg shots, from what I've read they have stopped using it for that purpose because it was too lethal ... and quick web search will verify military versions of .22lr designed for short range sniper duty...

the issue here is people thinking the .22 isn't lethal it is, from what read it kills more Americans every year than any other ...and than there is the BS that it won't deter, seriously who is going to argue with someone holding a .22 ... if you want to shoot something a few hundred yards away we're not talking about deterrence, facing down someone in a hallway and it's a serious deterrence...there isn't a sane person alive who will volunteer to stand 10' away and take a .22 to the chest... as you admit an I know from personal experience a .22 will drop a 1000lb cow with one shot through that thick skull...

humans enemies won't stand still for anything, a miss is a miss regardless what you use...

 

animals with no hearts can run a 100yards, you read it here first from rahl

I was going to say you should leave now before you lose all credibility but it's clearly too late for that...

 

what's this 17 people dead in two separate shootings, both committed with a .22, that can't be possible right? those dead people obviously idiots, don't know they can't be killed by a .22

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/23/6
http://www.taintedthoughts.com/item/finnish_man_kills_8_in_school_shooting

 

Nobody is disputing the potential lethality of a .22. But generally for that type of lethality it requires great accuracy. You can kill people with a pellet gun for crying out loud. But when the target it moving, a misplaced .22 round just isn't enough to put somebody down and remove their ability to meaningfully fight back.

The .45 on the other hand, is a terrific man stopper. Whether it hits in the chest or the leg, doesn't much matter. .357 is a dandy too. Where a .22 is a suggestion, the .45 and .357 is a command which will be obeyed.

...you shroomin'? Because it doesn't look like you know jack sh** about guns, ballistics, anatomy, or combat.

 

Thank you for proving once again you haven't the slightest clues what you're talking about regarding firearms, ballistics or biology

 

try read the first page of the thread, there is a nice study on stopping power...caliber just doesn't matter...the .22 is just as effective...
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866
then 17 dead in two shootings, seriously who doesn't know jack s*** ? I can drop a cow with a .22 and you think it's harmless? talk about not knowing jack s***...
are you another anatomy genius that's going to claim an animal can run a 100 yds without a heart...

 

wow you came back for more humiliation?..... the dunning kruger effect is very strong...

 

I'll attempt one more time. With great accuracy and precision you can drop a great many targets with a mere .22. However, when that target it moving, so do its vital organs, moving targets are harder to hit and put down even with exceptional training. Never said .22's are harmless, but in a combat situation when you are not having all the time in the world, and when your training may not be the equal to a green beret you are going to need a larger caliber shell to take your target down in most instances. A simple flesh wound caused by a .22 won't be the same with .45 hollow points.

You can kill a cow with a letter opener. But you wouldn't want to have one in a fight with a cow. Savvy?

The remark about hearts and lungs and such? Dude, either you have never been hunting or there is a deep psychosis of some sort. You can do a lot with a punctured lung. You can do alot with a wounded heart. The will to live is a terrific force. That is why people sometimes hike for miles to chase down an elk that has a bullet in its heart, or has a round in its lungs. Adrenaline is an amazing chemical.

A .22 is plenty lethal, when you hit the right spot, but in combat, that right spot is pretty damn elusive. That is why a larger round is more beneficial, it does more damage to everything in the entire area.

 

How does you not having any idea what you're talking about, and having two people point it out, humiliate me.

 

Some types just don't know when they are beaten, let alone ground into the dust.

 

didn't read the study in the link did you,ignorance is self induced...from the study-"I also excluded all cases of accidental shootings or suicides. Every shot in this study took place during a military battle or an altercation with a criminal." so it can be safely assumed no one was standing still savvy?... then there is that enormous elephant in the room ( no make that a whale) 17 dead in two separate with a .22 I think it's a safe assumption the 17 victims were "moving" but they were just as dead regardless...caliber is irrelevant, placement is everything...

the next lunacy will be justifying a rocket launcher vs a shotgun as you may need to vaporize an intruder as they won't be intimidated by a mere shotgun, hell they may take a half a step after you shoot them with a shotgun and that's serious threat....

 

says the man who thinks there are races of dogs...

 

Well I'll be A 22 is a deadly weapon eh, then who cares if I use a 357, it's a deadly weapon too eh? Careful now, your ignorance will come full circle if you don't respond properly.

 

I have found it remarkably difficult to inform an ignorant man the depths of his ignorance on this forum, despite pummeling them with brutal common sense. Some just refuse to learn.

 

Breeds of dogs wyly, breeds... Breeds of humans too. Don't start a battle of brains and then show up unarmed to the fight. You've done it before, you've done it here. You've been spanked before but you still refuse to learn. I'll not be wasting much time with you in the future. Unless I am spectacularly bored, or I feel the need to boost my ego in comparison to my lessers.

 

Lord knows I get your point, seems many an anti here has had their ignorance pointed out to them. They just twist in the wind eh?

 

Basically yes. They just keep warping things until the other side gets bored so they can claim victory because the other side refuses to sling (*)(*)(*)(*) any longer with them. What they still don't get is that they remain in the (*)(*)(*)(*) pit.

What makes them tick is the desire for control, but to be seen as good for doing it. But it is only good to control those who are above you so as to avoid the look of oppressing another. When the reality is they are oppressing everybody. As long as it is "cool" or socially acceptable, these mindless drones will do anything to serve their masters.

These types are under the grips of a satanic plan and they don't even realize it. A spiritual disorder they have, with dire spiritual and temporal consequences.

 

Using .22 LR's on protestors is just one step up from rubber bullets. Your arguments are just silly. .22's may well kill more people here in the US---because, because they are what most people have near them.

If myself and others around me are going to be under attack, I'll use a common-sense gun with pleanty of good, effective rounds in them: 9mm, .40SW, .45, .223 or .308.

As for you---you have my sympathies.

 

The PMR-30 does not shoot 22lr but 22 mag. Shot placement is the key. Only 1 out of 7 people shot with a handgun die. Often people shot with a handgun continue to walk around. Most people die from the trauma of blood loss.

If you want the best defense weapon you can get, then use a rifle. Since it is not easily carried you have to rely on a handgun.

The 22 is just as deadly as a 45 if you hit a vital organ and just as ineffective if you don't. The only concern would be penetration through heavy clothing and the 22 still performs well and the 22 mag may actually perform better than a 45 since it has a much smaller front plate area. Getting hit in the head with a 22 leaves a mess inside and is usually deadly since the bullet usually ricochets around in the skull.

The advantage of a 45 hollow point is the diameter it expands to. That gives it a greater chance of tagging a vital organ. Stopping power is myth. If a bullet will "drop" a perp, it would drop you shooting it.

 

I'm sorry but this is just incorrect.

 

A reminder that a Bushmaster uses a .223 caliber bullet and many people swear by their Bushmaster for home defense. I don't like the Bushmaster and instead use a Mossberg 500 tactical 12 gauge shotgun with the folding stock and pistol grip because I believe it is far superior.

Of note many cite the lack of "stopping power" of a .22 caliber pistol but fail to accept that any firearm is likely to deter an attacker. Few, if shot, will continue to attack regardless of what caliber they're shot with. They don't want to be shot again.

BTW I also have a .25 cal semi-automatic and the "rule" is to empty it. While it has a low muzzle energy if all of the rounds are fired it has more combined force than my 12 gauge firing a single round.

 

Some number of BBs will have more combined energy than 1 round from your Mossberg too. I would still choose the Mossberg nonetheless.

 

facts from gemini's book of little known scientific facts..little known because he makes them up as he goes, based on actual science,nada...the dunning kruger effect is strong within you...