Gaza started shooting rockets on Israel cities again

But since Israel didnt exist before and neither did the USA or anywhere else your point is irrelevant rubbish.

You want to close the thread, how about instead you just go away since while Israel still occupies the west bank there is plenty to talk about. But if you just want to tell that its all jewish land because they were there first and the palestinians are squatters then you can just go away and tell it to someone else. The thread will not close just yet, or at least until 500 posts.

 

That is all youve got, nice, good to know

Thats a symbol, that doesnt mean jews in europe were also living and breathing and building the country roads of Palestine. Instead they were connected to europe.

Doesnt mean you have any right to stay in the USA. Its a priviledge.

There is no such right in the USA.

Yes but since you used to have family there in Lithuania then Lithuania is Jewish land also. In fact you have as much right to be there as any Lithuanian. Thats the logic of zionism.

Yes it was, it was an underground army that went overground before becoming the IDF. It was fighting openly throughout 1947.

I dont need to do anything. The record of our conversation is here on these pages, you can answer already.

What difference does it make?

Yes but Palestine was taken over divided and destroyed by an immigrant minority allowed in by the British who took over in 1919. Most people in Palestine did not want it divided, nor for half of it to call itself Israel, but the civil war and division happened anyway and half of the original inhabitants were forced out by a people most of whom had arrived from europe.

No I'm not.

Yes but what difference would it make?

Halving a wallet would therefore half all that is contained within, just like halving anything else. There is no contradiction.

What difference does it make?

So we agree a national anthem is not necessary. Ive shown you Haifa, what else would you like?

Youve been saying alot, youve yet to back any of it up. You said he is a leader in the field of history, to do so one needs to be at least published many times and widely read and respected on the subject. Yet you dont even post his name - is that because youre stupid cowardly liar or is it because you dont feel the need?

So what?

No you need to read the books, not me, Ive done alot more reading than you.

Yes they evacuated after the Yom Kippur attack, not before, proving the necessity of the attack and proving my point.

No I'm not you just saying I am, you just wont get it.

Did the Palestinians in the west bank or east Jerusalem get a vote there too?

If they lived in the middle east and were not palestinians then theyd have no claim on palestine, just like the european jews.

They had no elections of their own and were refugees living in areas previously ruled by Jordan and Egypt so what difference does that make?

Nah youve evaded again, dont bother replying with the same line.

 

Read, thats not what I wrote.

So you probably doesnt know what the donation that the Jews in Europe give to the Jews in the Land of Israel, to helped them build Jewish cities, buildings etc.

The US give you the right to stay in the US, like the European citizenship give you.

Here is what written in a site of an attorney that practices exclusively in the field of immigration law in the USA:

The attorney name is: Dick A. Zonneveld.

Lithuanina is not a Jewish land, and never was.
But if we go with your assumption, so if someone was borned in Europe and his grandfather borned in the Land of Israel, so he also have the right to be in the Land of Israel like any other Jew that was there, and since this man that borned in Europe had a family in the Land of Israel, so according to what you said, the Land of Israel is a Jewish land. And if not so your whole assumprion is wrong about my right to be in Lithuania.

The Hagannah was indeed fighting openly throughout 1947, but he was fighting as an undergaround organization, and just when the IDF was created the Hagannah became an army.

But I want you to ask me, because you said that you have a question for me, so I'm asking you what is your question?

Because if anywhere around the world, WHOLE of the people, in verious countries, refering always to "Palestine", and not, even once, used the name "Falestine", so it means that the two names is not the same, because if it was the same they (and also you) would named the Arab state, or even just refering to the Arabs in Israel only as Palestine/Palestinians, it mean that is the right name for the Arabs in Israel.

If "Falestine" was like Palestine, the whole world (and even you) would refering it also as "Falestine, like the Jews in Israel say the Arabic term of "God willing", and not noly the Hebrew term.

As I said, I what I wrote it is not true, so your whole argument about it is BS

Check yourself

So post.

There is a contradiction. Why? simple:
If you said that the police would cut in half the wallet, so it means that ONLY the wallet will be cut in half, and not what inside of the wallet, BUT you said that the police would cut in half ONLY the things that you have inside the wallet, so the actual wallet, will not be cut, It is two deffrent things that you will cut.

What the diffrence? Well, the diffrence is if you mad on yourself, you cant be mad on the Jews, because the British Mandate occupied them and not the Jews. And as you said you are (and your whole country- Scottland) part of the British tarritory.

I never said that a national anthem is not necessary, here is what I wrote:

And here what you said:
\

And after that you said that Palestine was a country, a real one, and as you agreed with me (as you could see) whole of the countries have a national anthem, SO what I asked you after it is:
Where is the evidence (the national anthem) of THE STATE of Palestine? if THE STATE of Palestine was already existed.

Do you read what I wrote to you? I already told you where you can find articles of him.

Here what I said:

As far as I can see in our convertation, you've been dissmised alot of facts that I gave you, with out any real reference about it, so if you've done alot of reading, you need to have a proper comment to the facts I told you, but probably, you've not done alot of reading as you say.

The Yom Kippur was started because Anwar El Sadat wanted to take Sinai Desert from Israel by force, so he attacked Israel, didnt secceed very much, so he signed the Peace treaty.
Before this War, Israel gained control over Sinai Desert, and thats why Israel built villages there, because after the Six Day war, the Sinai Desert was under Israeli rule.

So you need to check yourself.

In the West bank (inside of Arab cities) Israel isnt controling, so they didnt need to give the Arabs there a chence to vote, and the once that have Israeli citizenship dont want to vote to the Israeli government.
In the East Jerusalem you have some Arabs that can vote, protest etc.

Now you contredacting what you said about me and my right to Lithuania.
If I have the right over Lithuania (as you said) so also the European Jews have the right over Israel, because their family lives in Israel , like my grandfather and his whole family lived in Lithuania

So you say that Jordan had no elections while they been a country with government? intresting.
The difference is, if the Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank want so much a PALESTINIAN state IN the West Bank, so why they go to live in others countries if they say that Israel is their land?

I will, you know why? because you still dont get it that: I already answered you.

 

Correct however, a Jewish state did and never an Arab one until the last couple of years.

I take that as a no. Anyhow, the land is Jewish land, not Arab so continue with your squatters rights circulatory argument please even though this will be post #654 and, continues to make your entire flaccid argument a display of self humiliating convoluted logic.

 

But that is all youve got, thats nice, and good to know

I do know but didnt mention it since it makes no difference anyway.

The right to stay due to having family members there doesnt exist anywhere on the bill of rights, so while the government may allow citizenship, its not yours by right. So Im right and youre wrong about that.

Again proof that the right doesnt exist, it may be allowed at present but US citizenship isnt yours by right. Moreover if you have a family member there that doesnt mean youve any right to be there. Therefore Im right and youre wrong.

Lithuania had thousands of Jews for generation after generation, since the first arrival of jews there has been a continuous presence of jews in Lithuania and even to the present day. Therefore it is Jewish land just like Israel. In fact the mere presence of ancestry somewhere is all you need the Jews can claim any land that has had continuous Jewish presence to be their land.

So if a european jew can claim palestine, then an Israeli jew can claim any where in europe. Because zionists like to make up your sacred historical connection to however you wish.

If it was fighting openly then it was not an underground army. Thats just your imagination. It did not become an army when it was named the IDF, thats just a silly argument. What difference does it make anway?

I dont care what you want, go ahead and read the pages.

No the whole world would not be referring it also as Falestine, and what difference does it make anyway?

Israel took over Palestine, Palestine did not become Israel. Some 400 villages were bulldozed and the land radically altered to erase Palestine. It was divided and destroyed and replaced with Israel and occupied Palestinian land. So your argument is BS, not mine.

Already did, turns out Im not.

I asked you what difference does it make?

What difference does it make?

Why cant I be mad on the Zionists too? What difference does it make who is oppressing arabs and taking their homes?

What difference does a national anthem make if a nation, state or people can still be so without one? The USA didnt have an official anthem until 1931, what were they before then?

It didnt have one, what difference does that make?

You said he's a leader in history and he agrees with everything you say so what difference does that make?

Yes Ive done an awful lot of reading, I know much more about the Israeli/ Palestine conflict than you and thats why I know most of the stuff you say makes absolutely no difference whatsoever.

No he just wanted the Sinai back. When the initial attack succeeded the Israelis were finally convinced that eventually they would really lose if they kept on with their expansionary ways. So they signed the treaty and evacuated the Sinai. The Israelis built villages there, even though it was actually Egypt because land has always been more important to them than peace with their weak neighbours.

No I dont.

But you said arabs get a vote in Israel so actually ou admit that some dont, so what difference does your original point make?

Yes so if youve had family in Lithuania then youve got a connection with Lithuania and you can claim it as your homeland just as you claim Israel. In fact a Jew can claim anywhere a Jew has family.

For work, food, to escape arrest, to live. Why do Israelis move from Israel?

No I answered you, you evaded like a stupid coward.

 

A jewish state did not exist. An arab one did, it was known as Ottoman Palestine. It was a modern nation state, the Jewish existence a thousand years ago was a tribal kingdom not a nation state.

The land is not jewish land. The logic is clear. That fact is something you just cant get over. Would you like to debate that?

 

Thats because you dont want to refer to what I wrote to you, and if so, why you keep replaying to my comments if you dont really care about what I write to you?

But you said that the Jews in Europe didnt do anything for this land before 1948, and I gave you some information that you are wrong, it is make a difference, because if it not so why did you brought it up in the first place?

Do you know thats the US allow oeiole to get "Green Card" is according to immigration laws? it is not like *poof* and one day someone decided in the US to give to people green card.
And If you have green card, so it means that the US recognize your right (according to spouse or family etc) for being and living there.

OH Lithuania is part of Israel? ok, so why Lithuania have different plag/anthem/laws etc, if it is part of Israel?

You need to learn, "what is Zionism"

So underground army must to fight under the ground?
It is not a silly argument, it is a FACT and if you dont know it, you need to go learn Israel history.

But you said that you have question for me no? and I already did it, but in whole of your comments there is a lot of question, so I dont really know what question you want to ask me.

Because if you refering the Land of Israel as "Palestine", and ONLY "Palestine" so it means that the name "Palestine" is corecct, and if you refering the Land of Israel ALSO as "Falestine" and not just "Palestine", it means that both of those names have the same meaning. it is simple.
And I mean by "refering" is when you write/say this wrod.
Answer me this (what is the CORECCT NAME):
What word refering to an object that you can sleep on it:
A) bad
B) bed

If the answer is B- BED, so it means that the name BED is the only name (according to the options) that you can refer it to an object that you can sleep on it.
If you answer is A- BAD, so it means that th name BAD is another name, that you can refer it to an object that you can sleep on.

Palestine, THE SATE, was existed before Israel? really? who was the frist Palestinian prime minister/president?

So then I, and the rest of the people that read your comment, can see that Israel really killed a Palestinian minister, like you said.

So please post.

It is nice to see that you dont really beleive your own analogy.

First of all, because the British Mandate, Imposed a British rule on the land of Israel, so if you want to really be mad about some country or people that oppressed the Arabs, so you need to be mad on yourself, because Scottland is part of it (meanwhile).

Secondly if it is not really importent WHO did it or, as you said still doing it, so why you dont get mad on Finland? or maybe Italy?

Ok I accept it, so please answer me this:
Who was the first Palestinian prime minister/president of this Palestinian state? that you said that already been existed.

Good to know.

You need to answer me, because you were the first to bring it up.

But if you've done a lot of reading, so you must got some evidences or information that could contradict the things that I said, and that you think that there are irrelevent, so if so, you must have an information that can soppurt your thinking.

That is what I already said.

First of all, Anwar El Sadat, begged to Israel he want a peace treaty, and then Israel accepted his begging and both sides signed the peace treaty.
So if you say that Israel and to the Jews what importent to them is only land, so why they signed peace treaty and evacuated Sinai?
According to what you say, Israel shouldnt evacuated Sinai.

Well cause the Arabs in the West Bank dont really want it, in any elections that Israel had, Arabs in East Jerusalem, they didnt vote, and if some really voted, it was an awful low number of the Arab voters in East Jerusalem, which means that even those that have the right to vote dont really do it, by choice.

So you contredacting what you said.
You said earlier, that to the European Jews have no right, what so ever, to claim connection over Israel or the Land of Israel, and now you saying they do have the right.

So if Hamas or the PA dont give enough work positions or anything else, that is not Israel fualt, because Israel is no longer rule Gaza OR the Arab cities in the West Bank, so actually you need in this case be mad on Hamas, or Abu-Mazen. and the IDF dont go unsdie of Gaza and errest people, maybe when there was operations there, but not on a daily bacics.

It is comportable for you to Ignore ah? I already sew it.

 

When the Ottomons return they can haggle with the nation of Israel until then, your poo just won't stick.

 

Because that really is all you’ve got and its nice and good to know wink wink. Why are you replying to me? Why are you on this forum at all?
What am I wrong about and what actual difference does it make?
No its not recognising your right, you don’t have the right. Its granting you permission.

Because Israeli Jews have ancestors from there, and family from there. That means they have a special connection to Lithuania and can claim their own land there.
You need to learn “what is morality’
No an underground army fights in secret. Hagannah was not secret in 1947, that’s a FACT. It was an army, it was the Jewish army, Im right and youre wrong.

Why should I bother trying anymore for you?

Yes in English the word would be bed, in English the word is Palestine, in Arabic the word is Falestine. And since we are capable of using and understanding any type of word then both Falestine and Palestine are interchangeable so it makes no difference whatsoever. Simple.

Yes. It didn’t have a Prime minister, what difference does it make anyway?
We already know Israelis have killed many different people so what difference would it make?

I don’t need to believe my own analogy. What difference does it make?

What difference would that make?

What difference would that make?

You need to have a Palestinian prime minister now? What difference would that make?

Yes it is, so What difference does it make?

I didn’t bring up your historian you did.

Why do I need to contradict what you say when the things you say don’t make any difference anyway?

Eh no he didn’t beg. Both sides wanted a treaty. Israel knew its expansionism was over and needed a credible way out. They signed the treaty because they realised that they cannot keep expanding into other peoples territory, force taught them that lesson so what difference does it make?

That’s because they don’t want to be Israelis so what difference does it make?

You want to use the ancestral ties argument to give you Israel but the same argument can be applied for anywhere that Jews have lived. But since one cannot claim the right to two lands at once youre in a paradox so what difference does it make?

Of course its Israelis fault. Israel controls every aspect of economic life in the West Bank and Gaza strip.

Youre not going to answer honestly anyway so what difference does it make?

- - - Updated - - -

It makes no difference Drew .

What is it you want Drew? Is there something youd like to discuss or debate with me?

Also why do you come here?

 

You need to ask yuorself those questions.

You one time say X and other time say Y, and when I try to show that you contridact yourslef, you just dont want to listen, or at least dont make a fool out of you.
Secondly- If it is dont really importent, so why are you so mad at them? or even brought that subject up?

But previously you said that I have a connection and the RIGHT to be in Lithuania, where all of my grandfather's family lived, so if I have family or anyone have family in the US suddenly he doesnt have the right? you contridacte yourself once again.

Like some Jews have families in the US, so actually they do have the RIGHT to live in the US because of their families, and if not so I dont have the connection (that you said I have) on Lithuania. simple.

I know what is morality and what is Zionism, you need to learn what Zionism is before you start hating it.

But they do fought in secret, when they stole from the British army guns and amunition, that was in secret.
So why the Jews didnt call the Hagannah the IDF and waited until 1948? IDF means ISRAELI Defence force, and the Land that Hagannah fought to protect it was ISRAEL (the Land of ISRAEL), so if they were an army they needed to be called the IDF, or rename themselves before 1948 to the IDF.

But If "Falestine" is "Palestine" why the whole world dont call it "Falestine" and just only "Palestine"? because you say that is the same.
Like the Jews in Israel say the Arabic term of "God willing", why they dont say just the Jewish term of it and even use the Arabic term, if according to what you say only the Arabs can say "Falestine", and the whole world can only say "Palestine" if it is the same term?
Like the Arabs say the Hebrew term of "God willing", why they dont say just the Arabic term?
Why in the US alot of people that are not from countries that speak spanish, but sometime say "Te Amo" and not say only the English term? why they need to use the Spanish term if they need to use the English term?

Every country needs a Prome Minister or even a President, to lead them, and lead the country, It is an integral part of state, and even can make laws, if you dont have Prime Minister/President so how the state can function corecctly?

And if to this "Palestinian STATE" that you said that was already existed, how does the STATE didnt have their leader, if it was existed?

But YOU said that the Jews killed Arab ministers, and also said that you have evidences for it, so why you so affreid to post those evidences?

So if you dont beleive your OWN analogy, and your OWN opinions, why you keep write them here?

Because how can you mad about a religion or about a nation that never imposed nothing on anyone? and the ones that do imposed, you dont really can be mad of them? it is hypocricy!

Once again, if it isnt make difference, so why you dont get mad on Finland?

I did bring up my historian, BUT YOU brought up that I lie about it.

First of all if it dont make any difference, why you brought it up in the first place?
Secondly you need to contradict what I said, because you said that what I said to you it is wrong, and if you say that is wrong, so probably you have evidences that can support it, if you dont have any evidences that can contradict what I said, so how can you say that what I said it is wrong?

The action that made him want peace, is when the IDF was sorrunded 20,000 Egyptean soldiers near Cairo, If Sadat would not signed the peace treaty, 20,000 would die from lucking on supply, so yes Sadat begged to Israel that he want a peace treaty.

And I'm still waiting to you answer:
So if you say that Israel and to the Jews what importent to them is only land, so why they signed peace treaty and evacuated Sinai?

Thats why the majority in East Jerusalem already said and keep saying that if a Palestinian state will be estaclished they will want to be Israelies? also if they will need to evacuate from their home?

So if you are saying now that no one can claim right to two lands, so how come you said earlier that I can claim the right to Lithuania and Israel?

And if you dont remember, you were the one that brought it up in the first place, so if it dont make any difference, why you brought it up?

Thats why the PA control the Arab cities in the West Bank and have 100% control over it?
In Gaza, Israel is no longer in control, hamas is. And if you dont know, Iran sending them ammunition, and money, and Hizbullah also support Hamas.
So you need to check your facts rights.

I already answered, but you keep ignoring it.

 

The Ottomans were a Turkish Empire. Turkey has recognized Israel and it's right over that land.

No need, your own arguments such as your one above defeat your entire logic, I admire Stuntman's patience with your poor knowledge and debating skills.

 

Correct. The Jews have all returned to their rightful home despite the ridiculous mental and verbal gymnastics you spew forth here to imply otherwise.

I originally did however, each time you have been checkmated you decide to try another silly fantasy ploy to make your point less flaccid and it is my duty to show you the errors in the logic and facts put forth.

Unlike you I come here to ensure truth is put forth. Hope this helps.

 

I keep telling you that you’ve got nothing, that’s why you say things like ‘nice’, and ‘good to know’, because you’ve little else to say. When you say things like that you’ve really got nothing and whatsmore its really rude so why do you do it?

Im merely pointing out the contradiction of the jewish claims to lands they’ve never seen while at the same time claiming the moral right to the land they currently live in also.
Im only asking what difference do your various points make?

Yes, because according to your own logic, having family ties or ancestors somewhere gives one that right. Im saying it really doesn’t anywhere if you haven’t actually been born there, not Palestine (unless you take it over call it Israel and tell only Jews they can they claim a place there) , not the USA and not Lithuania.

But again, even if they have families and ancestors in the USA, they may be granted a green card, but they do not have any right to the USA. It’s not on the Bill of Rights so there is no such right. But you want to tell us that Jews have some moral claim on Palestine, while denying the moral claim of Israelis of Lithuanian descent – you want to have your cake and eat and therefore your position is inconsistent and wrong.

I know exactly what Zionism is. It’s the national movement to support the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine.

Indeed but they were also given British guns and training, not so secret. And when they fought in the open in 1947 they were not stealing weapons to do so. They did not need to be called the IDF to be an army, that’s just nonsense – you can do better.

Because it makes no difference, in fact the difference is so small that no one bothers with it, the difference is meaningless. In the US, unless they wish to speak Spanish they only say it for the effect. Moreover Te Amo is very different from ‘I love you. while the terms Palestine and Falestine are not really different at all. So how can your point be so meaningful when the difference is so small? It cannot.

No they don’t. All they need are political parties that demand independence of whatever type, that’s all they need. That’s what you need to make laws, everything else flows from there.

No I said Jews killed all sorts of people. You asked what arab ministers they killed. I asked what difference that makes.

Its an analogy, not a statement of belief or opinion. You’ve tried to make out that the since the arabs were offered half of Palestine as an independent state they should have said yes rather than no. I’ve illustrated through analogy why that doesn’t make sense because if your offered something that is yours anyway you would and could not be glad to split it with someone else

What difference would that make?

Both Israel and the UK did impose on Palestine. Ive said that repeatedly. You’ve pretended that Israel had nothing to do with the splitting of the mandate or the takeover of Palestine, that’s just false. Moreover getting mad at the UK who left Palestine a long time ago and has no further influence makes no difference.

Because Finland had nothing to do with it. Israel does.

You pretended that you telling me that some historian agreeing with you is a credible point. I could say the same, but of course no one here uses that line because its pathetic BS.

I didn’t bring it up, you did.
Youre the one wanting what you say to be contradicted. It makes no difference to the point so I don’t need to.

If I told you in response to your point that its all Jewish land that apples are generally red and green would you contradict me on that?

That never happened, the ceasefire was imposed by the superpowers through the UN. That's what saved the Egyptians.

Because they could have had peace years before with Sadat, they didn’t need to build on Egypt but they did. They were offered peace by Sadat if they got out of Egypt, they refused and were attacked. They refused to get out of Gaza and were attacked, they refused to get out the West bank and were attacked.

Better to be second class citizens in Israel than occupied citizens in Palestine.

No I’m saying one cannot make two claims, therefore Jews in Europe cannot and could not claim Palestine having never seen Palestine. Just like you cannot claim Lithuania even though you had family there.

No Israel still controls all the borders, all the airspace and all the sea space. So you need to check YOUR facts.

You’ve dodged and dodged over and over. Youll dodge again, Ill be ready.

 

LOL. Ottoman Palestine gave way to the mandate that held it in trust for all its inhabitants. Palestine was lived in by its Palestinian inhabitants who did not need to have their own army navy or Prime Minister to have their voice heard. At no time did any of those inhabitants ever agree to splitting the land with Zionists and so its you who is wrong.

Your friend Stuntman doesn't even know his Six day war from his Yom Kippur. MOD EDIT>>>INSULT<<<

 

Thats why you keep contradict yourself ah? if you dont remember the one that keep contradict himself and keep insulting is you not me.
You know when someone starting to insult someone else, it means that he dont have nothing to say except the insult?

So if the Jews dont have the right to claim connection to land that they've never seen, so how can I claim connection to Lithuania if I've never seen it?
And according to what you said, I CAN claim connection to Lithuania, so it means that If I can claim it so do the other Jews around the world that have families in Israel can claim connection to it. and once again you contradicted yourself

You asked me what diffrence does it make according to the subject, and not about my various points.

And because you are asking me now, I will answer you-
My points are the answer about your opinion, I was pointing out and still do the facts of history, and your answer about them is insults and "so what?", not the answer I thought that a knowledgeable man can say.

YOU said that I can claim connection to Lithuania because of my grandfather, its not according to my logic, it is what you think about me that is part of the Jews and part of the Zionism, that you think that Zionism is have control over the world (even if Zionism is something else).

Secondly- you have to check your self, and checked what you wrote, and you could see it is not what you said. it is really sad that you dont support your own words.
You started to write about my connection, and that I could claim connection over Lithuania because of my grandfather, after it I just wrote according to it (and I also wrote it).

But green card let you work and live in the US, like other Americans, and with green card you can claim American citizenship. And I told you about the immigration laws, that the country itself legislated.

Secondly- I wrote that I cant claim connection over Lithuania because my grandfather borned there before Lithuania got their independence, so according to the laws in Lithuania I can claim anything Lithuania.

Really? here what you wrote:

So there you said that according to Zionism the Jews can claim historical connection over anywhere, however they wish.

Not really what you are saying now.

Until the Great Arab Revolt the Hagganah, is strategy was restraining Arab attacks, and After the Revolt, the British Mandate realized that they needed more manpower that could fight back against the Arabs, because the Arabs also started to attack the British soldiers, so the must had the help from the Hagganah, But the British Mandate didnt train people in the Hagganah, and after the Great Arab Revolt founded with a Jewish help police unit that would help the British restore calm to the area.

So if you say that between this two names, have a difference, even the smallest difference, so actually they dont have the same meaning, so "Palestine" and "Falestine" is two different names, and also you said it.

And People say "Te Amo" to someone they love, like when people say "I love you" to someone they love, it have the same meaning (not like "Palestine" and "Falestine"

Really? here what you said (page 65 comment 648 )-

So you said that the Jews killed all sorts like ministers, politicians, officials, and then because YOU said that the Jews killed ministers, so I just waited and still waiting to your evidences about it.

First of all, you use analogy to strengthen your opinion, and not to replace it.

Secondly, and I showed you how your analogy is wrong, because "the wallet" represent the land and what represent the separation of land is "the things inside the wallet", and I already wrote you about it, so this analogy didnt strengthen your opinion it just weaken it.

So once again,what was the names of the leaders of those political parties and the names of the parties that was in THE STATE of Palestine?

First of all- you said that it doesnt metter who imposed the Land of Israel, so according to that you can be mad on Finland, because simply it doesnt metter.

Secondly- Israel didnt imposed a Jewish rule over the Land of Israel, it was the British Mandate, so if it DOES metter, so you need to be mad on yourself (because meanwhile you are part of the British territory), and even in 1948 the Jews established Israel according to what happened in the UN ( when the UN had a voting over who accept the Jewish state and who isnt), so even then the Jews didnt impose their rule over the Land of Israel because they had a world acceptance over it.

Probably, but I even gave to you, the places that you can search those historians's articles, and you dont want to do it, so baseclly you cant say that this is a BS if you really want just ignoring what I give you.

But if you say that you've done a lot of reading, and have evidences about anything according to Israel history and all that, so if I said something, that you THINK it isnt true, so YOU need to bring those evidences that can support your opinions. it is simple.

Contradict that apples are red and green? I would not need to, because I have supermarkets that support that apples are red and green.

The superpowers did want a ceasefire between Israel and Egypt, and they do helped to reach it, but Sadat wanted also peace after what happened to his 20,000 soldiers.

BUT only Lands were what important for Israel and the Jews why they accepted to evacuated Sinai? If like you said, Israel and Jews the most important thing to them is lands, so they didnt need to evacuated anything.

Israel moved out from Gaza, because Israel wanted to give the Arabs there the chance to rule themselves.
And if you say that the Arabs in Gaza attacked Israel just because they wanted to control Gaza, so why now they are attacking Israel, if they already accomplished their goal?

Israel let the Arabs in the West Bank rule themselves because Oslo Agreement, and the Arab attacking were diminished significantly because the operation that Israel made on 2002.

But if you say that Palestine is Israel so how can they be occupied on their own land?

And I'm still waiting for your answer:
So if you are saying now that no one can claim right to two lands, so how come you said earlier that I can claim the right to Lithuania and Israel?

So according to that, here some question:
Why you dont say anything to the US (for example)? cause they controls their borders? (like Israel)
Why you didnt say anything to the US when they've been in Afghanistan? because you say that Israel cant do things against enemy territories.

Look if you dont like to respond to my answer, it ok, but please say it.

 

The Jewish State in existence then, was dispersed by three Roman emperors the last one was Hadrian

So in other words Israel existed... Israel has a population of 7 and half Million today and another 12 Millions are speaking Hebrew as a language of convenience. Sooooooo... to you and many others the <people of Israel is alive and well> and never faded away like the Babylonians, the Mesopotamian's, the Pharaohs, the Incas, the Mayas and so forth.

The Ottomans ruled this area for 400 years, the Muslims also ruled Spain-Andalous for more than 800 years... where are they now?

No amount of empty rhetoric or rewriting history is pertinent here, Creation go open a book and do not ever come here pretending that your part of history picked up from the PLO Syllabus is better than the one recognized in the world. As to the so called <Palestinians> there was never <EVER> an independent Palestinian State in Existence... Creation you can take that to the Bank!

 

I see the problem here, Ottoman to you means Palestinians but check your spelling and history, the Ottomans never gave autonomy to the tribes of the Levant rather the land was part of their empire. Palestine was never, ever it's own nation and, the British took the mandate to mean that the Jews are to have their land returned and the UN in an effort to placate them offered them the same as the Jews but they refused.

LOL BTW.

Of course they didn't, that's why they were ruled by everybody from the Mongols to the bloody French and never had their own nation.

Agree? When does a thief agree to give back what he feels is his? Never. As for me being wrong, I should like to see some proof of this autonomous land and nation called "Ottoman Palestine" and the history of how the Ottomans and Caliphates backed off when they proclaimed their own nation without your usual name calling please.

MOD EDIT>>>RESPONSE TO DELETED COMMENT REMOVED<<<

 

Correct. They were a Paramilitary Organization until after independence when they then, after much in and out fighting with members of their own and the new government and other organizations, were forced to accede to the nation of Israel and become part of the military of Israel rather than maintain their organization as an underground militia.

 

Many Jews fought with the British against Hitler, and gained military experience there. The vast majority of Arabs supported Hitler, as did their Mufti, and gained none. The roots of the Haganah came from that core. The faux 'Palestinian' Arabs were only 'brave' when they could butcher unarmed civilians; they ran like rabbits at the first signs of Jewish resistance. There is an incident in Benny Morris' 1948 where these 'palestinian patriots' were rioting and called Abdullah of Jordan and the other military leaders 'cowards' and whatnot for not being able to kill Jews fast enough and win back their 'lands' for them while they sniveled and whined about the Arab armies taking too long. Abdullah confronted them and pointed out he had a recruiting office right nearby; most of the 'palestinians' ran off down the hill, and few signed up. Such is their alleged 'patriotism and roots' for their imaginary 'lands from time immemorial'. they wouldn't even fight for it.

 

As soon as they get out of the Arab land they are stealing on a daily basis. Simple.

 

Seems the destruction of Israel was and is the prime concern of the Palestinians long before the legal occupations occured. Your dog won't hunt.

 

unofficial MOD WARNING, aka pretty please>>>post respectfully and comply with the forum rules

 

Except it's in the news every year a couple of times that the homeland of the Jews is bulldozering houses of Arabs. So they can exand their apartheid nation on their expense.

True story

 

Get back to me when you apologise for your smart arse Nice and good to know responses.

Exactly, you cannot. Ive pointed out why the european jews claims do not make sense. You in fact cannot make a claim on Lithuania, as european jews have no claim on palestine. Will you now accept that?

Youve made a number of points that make absolutely no difference, youve made no attempt to explain the significance of your charges.

Yes, your problem is that you and zionism claims that jews could claim Palestine for themselves, while you say you cannot claim Lithuania - that makes no sense and is therefore wrong.

Yes Ive pointed out the contradiction of anyone anywhere claiming somewhere theyve never seen - you now agree that does not make sense and therefore you agree that european jews had no business claiming palestine at the birth of the zionist movement in Switzerland.

You can indeed work, and become a citizen, you can apply for these things yet these things do not become yours by right. Do you agree that it is not a right?

Second - you cannot, no sane Lithuanian would let Israeli jews come and try to take over the land, they would oppose it just as the arabs did in palestine.

No that is what Im saying then and now. Zionism is a national movement for the jewish state to claim palestine on the basis of a sacred connection of jews in general.
Dont bother to try to parse out the meaning, thats just a dodge.

No the British supplied guns and training for self defence initially, then the Hagganah developed its capabilities to become an army by 1947. There are numerous pictures of their movements in 1947, moving in uniform in formation across Palestine to attack various villages.

No ive repeatedly said theres no real difference, and any difference there is negligible. Do you know what negligible means? Do you agree that the difference is negligible or not? If not then why not?

It does have the same meaning, as Falestine and Palestine have the same meaning, do you agree with that?

And since the jews killed even more innocent people than Arab ministers Im not going to evidence any claims that they killed arab ministers, I will instead evidence claims that they used terrorism to killed innocent arab civilians - which is worse killing an arab minister or lots of arab civilians?

The wallet is merely a metaphor of something you hold to be valuable, it may include the wallet and all inside it, as I intended the wallet to represent. Youve simply dodged the point by trying to parse out the difference between the wallet and whatever is inside it. I'll even offer you the choice to consider the wallet or the contents of the wallet it makes no difference as either way the wallet remains an example of a very valuable thing.

It doesnt matter, do you agree those parties had leaders? If they didnt have leaders would that make a difference?

Wrong, the British imposed their rule and the Israelis then imposed theirs. I dont need to be mad at myself at all. When Israel does something wrong do you get mad at yourself stuntman? Do you get mad at your Mom? No of course not. So why should I do so?

Nonsense, the 1947 UN GA proposed partition was outside the competence of the Assembly under the Charter of the United Nations? Nowhere in the UN's charter was there the power to partition any country, especially based on racial or religious grounds. Even if the UN had the power, the resolution to partition Palestine was not binding since it was indorsed by the General Assembly rather than the Security Council.

I dont know who these guys are or why I should read them. Go read Norman Finkelstein and get back to me when youve finished.

If it makes no difference to the point then there is no need?

No you dont need to because its nothing to do with the point being made.

Source for Sadat begging?

They evacuated because they faced military defeat in the longer term that would not allow them to keep the land anyway, not because they felt compassion for egyptians or anyone else.

No it was because they didnt want pay for the continued defence in the settlements in Gaza and did not think they could continue to protect settlers there. It was not an act of compassion. Because Israel remains in control of virtually all borders of Gaza, including sea and air.

It was the intifada that led to that agreement, not Israeli compassion.

LOL. Youve missed your own point. How were the French occupied on their own land? How were the Germans? West Bank Palestinians are occupied. Arab israelis are citizens of Israel.

I said that to point out the contradiction of zionist claims of european jews to Palerstine. It seems it has worked as you now agree with me.

They dont control of all Mexico or Canadas borders.
The US is not settling its people in Afghanistan. And its a UN backed operation.

Stop dodging.

 

Irrelevant, if you oppose the actions of the Romans over a population that doesnt agree then you oppose the actions of any imperial ruler such as britain or Turkey in actions that are opposed by the populace. You wouldnt accept it in your country and therefore from every angle your argument is lost.

Irrelevant, so was any small people.

When does you agree to give back what you feel is yours? Never.

I should like to see the relevance of this autonomy you mention and why its more important than the actual will of Palestinians in Palestine. Respect given earns respect in turn so lets see if you can discuss matters seriously for once.