What evidence exists that Blacks and Whites have equal intelligence?

Throwing in the towel? I've done no such thing. I have attempted to simplify the debate for us by reciting my position on the topic and asking you on topic questions which you don't seem to want to answer. I even gave you the oppurtunity to ask me on topic questions. Do you still want to debate or are YOU throwing in the towel?

Again....


My position:

The hereditarian racialist position is based on fallacious reasoning because:

1. Within Group Heritability provides no implications for Between Group Heritability.

2. Environmental inequality between races means the hereditarian hypothesis is not testable (you can't control for racism).

3. Population Genetic studies indicate that human populations do not partition into biological races and the genetic variance between geographic populations cannot account for genetic differences in intelligence.

My questions:

Question #1: What is your scientific basis for claiming there are genetically determined racial differences in intelligence?

Question #2: Why do Southeast Asians have lower IQs than Northeast Asians?

So you're claiming that individual people are sub-races?!

 

Again you're ascribing to me a belief I never claimed. You've acted as if I'm a disciple of Rushton from day 1 which I've never claimed, and have repeatedly tried to attack me based on this strawman.

Yes, you've thrown in the towel regarding your environmentalist "blame whitey for it all" hypothesis. You have attempted to defend it by emailing people either unqualified to comment, or those who have written books on it that have been proven of the same worth as a pile of discarded condoms. In spite of this, you cling to the belief, refuse to reconsider your faith in it, and last but not least, refuse to apologize for blaming white people.

Anyone familiar with this thread sees your abandoning your previous argument for this new strawman position precisely at the moment at which you were unable to continue on in your defense of your racist environmentalist "blame whitey for it all" theory.

Changing the subject to something new is throwing in the towel. We all see you do it. You can deny it until the end of time. Indeed, you are now avoiding even mentioning your environmentalist "blame whitey for it all" theory, oddly enough.

You are unable to substantiate your position so you are engaging in off-topic strawman arguments.

Perhaps I should flag you for these off-topic posts you keep aiming at me... Hmm.....

 

There are no tests that measure human intelligence because human intelligence is so broad in scope according to the APA that no tests exist to test human intelligence.

http://www.apa.org/topics/intelligence/index.aspx

What really needs to be addressed in this thread is pseudo-science racism.

http://www.newstatesman.com/africa/2007/10/watson-intelligence-race

The fact is that the foundation for this thread, whether knowlngly or not, is based upon pseudo-science racist propaganda being spread by anit-black racist hate groups like Stormfront. Some people fall into the trap of believing in the racist propaganda of pseudo-science that has been repeatedly discredited by the scientific community and that is a pity. Otherwise intelligent people spread the pseudo-science propaganda of racial superiority of "white people" out or ignorance by making claims that "blacks are less intellegent than whites" when their are no studies or evidence to support the actual claims.

All we need really to remember is that there are no tests that measure "human intelligence" so any claims that one race is more intelligent than another race is pure racist propaganda. What we shouldn't do is attack the person making such an absurd claim by calling them a racists because they might just be uniformed and being duped by the racist propaganda. Hopefully revealing the truth that this is all pseudo-science racism will lead them to realize that they're the victims of racist propaganda and they're being manipulated like pawns by racist hate groups like Stormfront.

Of course this won't stop the actual racist but I don't believe that most people spreading this propaganda are really racists. They're instead simply being duped into spreading the racist propaganda.

 

I must have forgotten, in your delirious world, Lieberman 'refutes' MRI studies showing Whites have significantly larger brain volume than Blacks.

To everyone else, Lieberman is refuted when he bases his arguments off assumptions and cites others making assumptions as evidence.

Tell us, what are these significant cultural variations between Southeast and Northeast Asians that would account for these IQ differences you've forgotten to show actually exist?

Vietnamese and Laotians are probably more culturally related to Chinese than Japanese or modern Koreans are to Chinese. So why exactly do Japanese and Koreans have an IQ nearly identical to Chinese in developed nations?

 

For someone whining about 'pseudo-science', you failed to show any of it.

I guess that's why you continue embarrassing yourself ignoring the evidence that Whites have larger brain volume than Blacks.

 

Plagiarizing again, or should I call you 'morpheus'?

http://www.thephora.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-83743.html

 

I am Morpheus from The Phora. You can't plagiarize yourself.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/scien...argely-genetic-w-957-a-84.html#post1060532041

 

I'm wondering if maybe we need to start handing out Ritalin on this thread.

 

Since there are no tests that measure overall "human intelligence" what difference does it make? Some people have bigger feet too, So what does that have to do with human intelligence that we're incapable of testing?

There are no tests that measure overall human intelligence and we're also lacking any scientific definition of "race" which is a social construct not recognized by science. There is only one scientific species and subspecies of human beings, homo sapien sapiens and only one race and that's the human race.

While I refuse to address whether someone is a racist or not I would suggest that those that spread pseudo-science racism ask themselves if they are a racist or merely an innocent victim spreading racist propaganda. That is a question only they are capable of answering.

 

He thoroughly recycles his own arguments, including ones that have been refuted and proven fallacious.

Cute how he excised the environmentalist blame-whitey theory out of that one, though.

- - - Updated - - -

Since IQ studies measure general cognitive ability, I'm wondering why you are so quick to dismiss them.

 

Because the APA states that they are of very limited usefulness, they are problematic, and they don't measure "human intelligence" that encompasses a very broad spectrum.

By analogy it's like trying to judge a car based upon it's brakes alone. The brakes do address the stopping power of the car but tell you very little about the car itself.

 

What are you ranting about? I have never abandoned my position that there are no genetically determined racial differences in intelligence.

I clearly outlined my reasoning for why the hereditarian racialist position is fallacious and invalid. I asked you questions that are clearly on-topic and you are just finding excuses to ignore them. If I treat you like a disciple of Rushton's it's because you have constantly defended him throughout our exchange from my Youtube videos to this very thread. I don't think you need to be a supporter of Rushton to be a racialist but that does beg the question, how do your views on the topic differ from Rushton? Don't ask my to apologize for acknowledging the documented fact that environmental inequality between Black and White Americans was caused by White racism. For you to accuse me of being a racist who "Blames Whitey" is a disgusting distortion of facts. But I suppose that is what racists do.

 

Surely you have a source for this better than "the APA states"?

You seem to think psychologists don't use IQ studies or teach in psychology classes that they're not only valid, but proven so by the scientific method.

 

The APA is the foremost authority on IQ tests in the United States so of course I defer to their expertise.

Yes, psychologists do use IQ tests but they also include the caveat that IQ tests are of very limited scope and purpose and that IQ tests do not measure general human intelligence but instead only measure a very limit aspect of human intelligence.

The psychologists would agree with my analogy that measuring the brakes of a car doesn't tell us very much about the car when it comes to IQ tests.

 

>>>Quoted Post Deleted<<<


What a load of garbage. First of all I am not flagging your posts. I didn't even see the posts that got deleted. Take that up with the Mods.

I haven't even mentioned Rushton in my recent questions to you. I outlined my argument and asked you two questions which you refuse to answer because you can't answer them. The rest of your rant is simply ridiculous. Graves and Suzuki are qualified to address the subject of evolutionary genetics which is what this subject centers around. This is not a topic unique to psychology. Multiple disciplines are relevant to the topic and one can take a multidisciplinary approach to answering the topic as I have.

 

And you prove that, how?

Or does your current account make basic grammatical errors and write in an entirely different syntax (usually limited to one liners) unlike morpheus as if you were two personalities?

 

Since when do tests need to measure every possible aspect of something? Is there any test measuring overall athleticism - which can scarcely be fully quantified, either?

Or are you imagining I'm going to ignore your absurd red herrings?

What does foot size have to do with brain volume differences between Blacks and Whites?

You're not absurdly trying to claim the same causality and correlation between foot size and IQ as there is with brain size and IQ?

Which pseudo-science has been spread in this thread? So far, some people have made numerous false claims, including that there are not average brain volume differences between different groups of people.

Thankfully, I've been here to debunk that pseudo-science.

 

Morpheus's writing style seems completely different from EJ's one liners. I wouldn't discount the likely possibility that EJ has long been piggy-backing Morpheus' Rolodex of copy-pastes, citations and arguments for many years that the two can now be blended together.

 

But they do measure general intelligence which is a necessary condition for stuff like advanced physics, right?

 

Although I am banned from The Phora I am still an active member of MootStormfront under the name Morpheus. You can find plenty of references to me using the names EgalitarianJay and Morpheus as well as Morpheus of MootStormfront being the same person as Morpheus on ThePhora.

Examples:

http://www.mootsf.com/index.php?/to...-debunked-by-evolutionary-biologists/?p=44750

http://www.thephora.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1004879&postcount=200

If you don't believe me you can contact Morpheus on MootStormfront and confirm that we are the same person.

 

The title of this thread is "What evidence exists that Blacks and Whites have equal intelligence?" and there is no evidence that there is any difference in the "intelligence" between whites and blacks because there are no tests that test overall human intelligence. If we're to make a comparison between "intelligence" then we have to measure all forms of intelligence.

Can we, for example, compare Michelangelo's intelligence with Einstein's intelligence? How do we compare art and science? Both were unquestionably a genius in their field but which one was more intelligent? It is impossible to make such a determination just like it's impossible to compare the intelligence necessary to understand math and the intelligence necessary for social interaction.

The following statement from the OP is pseudo-science that has been repeatedly debunked by the scientific community:

Seven criteria are listed in attempting to claim that there is a difference in "intelligence" but there are thousands of criteria that would have to be taken into account to measure human critieria. It is pseudo-science being propagated by racists so if you support the statement cited then you're left with a question that you need to ask yourself.

Are you a racist or are you just the innocent victim of racist propaganda?

 

If IQ doesn't measure intelligence why are there no low IQ physics professors? In fact there is a consensus among academic psychologists that it does and the single dissenting article (which has been debunked) you reference which you lie represents the APA's view is the lamest form of cherry picking.

 

Amazing red herring.

Would I need to find a test measuring every possible element of athleticism if I started a thread on athletic differences between West Africans and Whites; or would current 'tests' be sufficient showing some differences exist ton conclude Whites and West Africans are not equally athletic?

Red herring. There is no test measuring cognitive ability showing equal performance between Whites and Blacks. Whatever slivers of intelligence various intelligence tests measure across the spectrum, intellectual/cognitive ability between Whites and Blacks are clearly different.

Perhaps you're confused on the meaning of equality. Two things are unequal if only some differences exist. And of course, since every cognitive/intelligence test has found impressive differences between White and Black cognitive ability, there is no evidence that Whites and Blacks are equally intelligent.

But your red herrings are comedic gold as it is.

Sorry; what are you mumbling about?

Do you understand what evidence is, right?

Apart from never supporting your delirious arguments, you don't seem to understand that if evidence doesn't support a certain conclusion, then you can't argue that conclusion in the affirmative.

Feel free what has been 'debunked' by the 'scientific community'. I'll microwave popcorn in anticipation of the comedy show.

I'm also curious what these 'thousands' of criteria are that would be needed to prove two individuals, for instance, are intellectually different when, logically, only one criterion showing a difference would obviously be needed.

 

So you think you are more intelligent than every black person in America just because your skin color is white.

 

I have no idea, but the copy-pastes aren't a valid scientific argument. You can't take an exposed scholar, like Nisbett, fail to defend his conclusions which have already been dashed to the four winds by his own counterparts in psychology, and then keep pushing them as "facts." Worse than this, simply dropping his name from the environmentalist hypothesis while continuing to use his arguments as valid. Then later on with someone else on the same thread, again invoking Nisbett by name as evidence for something.

It's sloppy, dishonest, betrays a lack of understanding of both honest debate and how to argue one's position, and is indicative the person doing it is arguing the topic in bad faith.

There is NOTHING to be gained by a person for doing this other than getting a few mythical debate wins on forums with people who don't know the topic very well and don't realize what's going on. There is no gain in the real world; no points proven and no facts uncovered.

The environmental theory of IQ differences between groups simply has no legs, which is why the consensus in the field doesn't accept it.

It's not about science here; it's about politics and personal race-based grudges, and he who resists these false claims of factuality is repeatedly tarred and feathered as a "racist" and "supremist," of which I've been attacked as both by this person.

He has claimed to have taken multiple courses in college psychology. I have and I simply don't believe he has. His understanding of the topic and willingness to accept fallacious claims (Graves, and even Nisbett) show me he hasn't a background in psych in the least.