The REAL Reason the Hard Left Supports Gun Control

Me ?? I don't think I 'mentioned the war'.

 

When you have no argument....go for the Godwin. Lol

 

"I will repeat myself but not respond to the debate

I will repeat myself but not respond to the debate

I will repeat myself but not respond to the debate


Lol" VG

"There you go again - another unresponsive evasive post. Evidence works better. " Dd

I see your point.

 

1. All human rights including human life are only as secure as our ability to defend them.
2. Gun registration schemes like all data collection schemes are inherently malignant. Facebook, Amazon et al prove that everyday now.

 

Here in the age of Big Bad Government we are never very far away from Hitler.

 

The direct and centralized registration of privately owned firearms is prohibited at the federal level, as there is no legitimate reason in maintaining lists of individuals who are not committing crimes.

As was stated previously. All modern firearms come with serial numbers. The ATF is provided with the serial numbers and other identifying information of firearms by local law enforcement officers. The ATF contacts the manufacturer and provides them with the serial numbers of the firearms in question. The manufacturers consult their records and inform the ATF of which federally licensed firearms dealer in which state were shipped the firearms in question. The federally licensed firearms dealer who sold the firearm can then relay who the firearms in question were sold to, as well as when the sale took place.

There is simply no legitimate need for the state-level registration of firearms, as it does not serve any benefit, or provide any new information that cannot be had otherwise.

The ATF is not compiling data to demonstrate which states are the most frequently selected states for the trafficking of firearms into other states. It is a law enforcement agency, not a political advocacy agency. It is tasked with enforcing the existing federal level firearm-related restrictions, not advocating for changes in state level firearm-related restrictions.

The first step in solving any complex problem is to analyze the matter with an open mind devoid of bias that may sway someone to change facts to suit theories and opinions, rather than allowing the facts to shape the theory and opinion.

The matter has been analyzed in depth. The conclusion reached is that it is not the legal sale of firearms which is the problem. In truth it is not even the black market, illicit sale and trade of firearms that is the problem. Rather the problem stems from the individuals themselves. The problem is not the available implement, but rather the people that will use them.

For whatever reason, the united states plays host to a significant percentage of individuals in the general public for either cannot, or simply will not, abide by the rules governing society, and instead simply do whatever they wish to do simply because they feel like it. These are the individuals who engage in crimes, who commit murder, who have no regard for human life, that are ultimately the problem. But the public does not wish to be reminded of this fact, both because it resents being blamed, and because there is no appetite to acknowledge the simple fact that anyone could be murdered for no reason at any given minute, and there is nothing that can be done to prevent it. Firearm-related restrictions are nothing more than an effort at crafting the illusion that safety can be had, because the reality of the matter is simply too frightening to accept and acknowledge.

There can be no solution so long as the focus remains on the implement, rather than the individual. Support for restricting firearms is nothing more than the foolish belief that a tiger can actually be tamed, domesticated, and made into a house pet simply by having it declawed.

Simply because one does not accept the matter as it is presented, does not directly mean there is more relevant data being deliberately withheld.

 

Dude you dont want honest debate. I gave you three examples of where they have registration and do not have mass confiscations.

You just repeat your NRA talking point over and over

Why are you even here?

 

LOL! What "NRA talking point"?

You have already admitted that the states you cited confiscate guns. Are you taking that back now?

 

Every state does. So states without registration have some confiscations

How do you not get this?

 

Why do you pretend not to get the obvious - gun registration facilitates the confiscation of guns.

 

Car registration facilitates the confiscation of cars.

People registration facilitates the confiscation of people

 

If one is going to compare Donald Trump to Adolf Hitler, they have no grounds for objecting when the registration and confiscation of firearms by the nazi party is mentioned.

 

Good point. Street addresses were created by Napoleon to facilitate the draft - people confiscation.
It has killed millions.

 

You are currently registered with the government in a dozen ways.

Start packing for the gulag

 

In the modern era that kind of deadly risk has become very real.

"… from 1900 to 1987 governments MURDERED almost *170* MILLION people ... far exceeds the 34.4 million battle deaths ... from all...wars fought during the same period.... democratic governments were responsible for only about one percent of the twentieth century's death toll from democide...." The Atlantic Monthly, "The World In Numbers," "Murder By The State," Vol. 292 NO. #4, 11/20. (emphasis mine)

The Atlantic's source: "Rummels books on the subject - particularly "Death By Government" (1994) and "Statistics of Democide" (1997).

Big Government is not your little friend Vegas.

 

Yet you....personally....are registered with the government in a dozen ways....comrade

 

So, Vegas, how much do you love Big Brother?

 

Exactly as much as you it seems. Lol

 

Yes, privacy matters.

“Intelligence” is best understood as a sequential process, which embraces the selection of the subject (an organization or individual) for surveillance, techniques, used in monitoring the subject or target, the processing and retention of information collected (files and dossiers), and it's evaluation in the light of the strategic purpose the intelligence mission. Intelligence also includes an activist or aggressive aspect, specifically designed to damage or harass a target. But whether formally classified as passive data collection or aggressive intelligence, the intelligence function is dominated by a punitive or prescriptive purpose. Even the selection of a target embodies a judgment of defiance from the dominant political culture.”The Age of Surveillance, The Aims and Methods of America's Political intelligence System, Frank J. Donner, Alfred A. Knopf, Inc., New York, 1980. p. 3.

 

Are you being purposely obtuse?

Yes, I realize this is a thread about gun control. Yes, I realize this is the gun control subforum.

Now, do you realize that this thread is ALSO a political opinion/belief? And that it was originally posted in the political opinion/belief subforum?

The fact is, MANY threads posted in the political opinion/belief subforum OVERLAP with other subforums like this one. Technically, EVERY thread posted in the political opinion/belief subforum could be relocated to another subforum based on the criteria you've just asserted. Yet, for some reason, my threads seem to be the only ones receiving this arbitrary treatment. And given that I've already had an experience with a whiny liberal reporting my threads simply because he didn't like what I was saying, I can only assume the same thing happened to this thread. And when I ask for an explanation from those who should know, they simply ignore me and refuse to explain themselves.

You obviously cannot know this, since you have only been a member here for like one year, but this place has changed massively since I first started posting here eight years ago. A noticeable groupthink is pervading it and it's becoming much less free in terms of our ability to express ourselves. For example, it's perfectly okay for liberals to post literally dozens of threads per day on the same conspiracy theory (Russian collusion) for over two years straight now, but it's not okay for me to post ONE THREAD about RFK's relatives questioning his assassination without it immediately being sent to some obscure subforum where no one will ever read it.

That IS a form of censorship whether you want to admit it or not. And it's driven by what can only be described as liberal groupthink. So, some liberal or liberals didn't like that my thread was getting so much exposure, so they whined to the mods and had it removed to a more lightly trafficked subforum, just like they've done before.

 

I have no clue what you are on about.

I give up

 

Yes, that would belong in the conspiracy sub-forum. No reason to bother the rest of us with it.

 

Thanks for proving my point.

 

On the 'evils' of state 'registration' I note one point. The purpose is not just about 'state control'. Yes registration of property, vehicles etc is used for taxation purposes but it also protects the rights of the owner. Your property registered in your name and hence it is legally yours. Assuming you live in any state where the rule of law applies no-one else can just walk in and take your home, your car etc without your consent - because you can prove ownership. They have to purchase it.

Apart from proof of ownership there is also a safety element involved. Every consumer good in your home has serial numbers as does every vehicle you travel in. Apart from the benefits to the manufacturer via stock control etc those serial numbers allow for safety recalls in the events the goods or part are found to be dangerous or defective. And registration of automobiles is not just about identification and tax, its also about the fact that vehicles must be mechanically sound to stay registered.

Oh and on Xenamnes point above where he stated;

'Simply because one does not accept the matter as it is presented, does not directly mean there is more relevant data being deliberately withheld.'

To clarify it is not a matter of data being 'deliberately withheld' as you put it. The use of the word 'deliberately' implies a conscious decision on the part of the States involved to withhold data from the ATF i.e data that has been collected and could be provided were a decision made to do so. Rather my point was that the data is absent because it has never been collected in the first place. Those States involved can't hand over data they don't have.

And this lack of this data is what hampers any attempt to use analytics as a means of identifying choke points in the flow of illegal guns where particular small groups or even just individuals are responsible for multiple straw purchases or are otherwise involved in activities that result in 'leakage' from he legitimate firearm trade. Lone, one off straw purchases couldn't be prevented by such reviews unless there was some significant geographical or other nexus linking multiple individual purchases to one entity further down the chain.

 

I don't have to register my gun with the state to prove its mine.
In fact, I have pics of all my guns, their S/Ns, and their boxes (with UPC and S/N) uploaded to the cloud for insurance purposes.