Everyone driving electric cars----------what a joke.

That would be a smart move and if you are going to all that trouble then you might as well install the wiring for 220v alongside it just in case it becomes cost effective to install that charger in the future.

Do yourself a favor and either test drive or rent an EV similar to the type you are interested in for yourself. It will give you some perspective on what it is like to belong to this Brave New World. It looks like Tesla is planning to launch a smaller model for around $25k that would cost under $20k after the tax incentive. I know we don't like smaller cars but you might be surprised just how nice it is to drive knowing that you are not harming the planet on a daily basis.

 

Thank you for CONFIRMING that you LACK the relevant subject matter knowledge.

Let me make it really SIMPLE for you to grasp.

If a SINGLE battery can provide sufficient power for an entire 24 hours then TWO batteries will provide enough power to 48 hours.

The great thing about Lithium batteries is that they HOLD a charge. I can charge up additional batteries in the Summer and have them as backup for the Winter.

Furthermore it is possible to STRETCH the time that the batteries last by turning off non-essentials like not using things like the washing machine and tumble dryer for a couple of days.

Before you go off the deep end about the COST you obviously have NOT researched the topic because if you had you would have discovered that it is possible to purchase used medical grade batteries for a fraction of the cost of new ones. They are normally only swapped out because of regulatory requirements and work really well as long term back batteries for a one time expense.

NONE of this is rocket science.

 

Umm... cite the source of your certainty here. Show a citation for a battery that can supply 24 hours worth of power at an average usage rate. Also, demonstrate that attaching the tandem unit that you've referenced can actually produce enough supply for 48 hours. So, as you have to suggest that "stretching" is an option, what you've really admitted to is that your source power is insufficient to produce enough service for a durable time. And of course, as in the event last week in TX, folks were without power for more than 5 days in some places. It isn't my lack of understanding or knowledge. It's a result of experience with these options, and the understanding that some of the options out there are, well, not ready yet. The key word there is "yet". And if, in the future, some kind of power storage is developed that might be, in the future, ready to go to market, it might be something to consider. For now, products like the Tesla whole house just don't get er done.

 

Thank you for CONFIMING your lack of understanding and knowledge of the relevant subject matter.

https://everythingwhat.com/open-detail/273958A5

Obviously this IS rocket science to those who are in science denial.

Sad!

 

Great demo, but little is said about the drain on the battery. It’s absolutely true that even under severe use, battery powered electrics are more efficient, but.

Present day batteries have no where near the storage capacity of energy by volume and weight that liquid fossil fuels do. Nothing is more evident of this then in the diesel electric locomotive which pulls a hundred rail cars just with a few electric motors with ease, but still needs a Diesel engine to efficiently supply the energy to the electric motors in a manageable way with relatively small fuel tanks.

By towing heavy loads I also include carrying them in the bed as well. If a full size 1/2 ton f150 isn’t regularly used for its capabilities there is little need for it to begin with. A Teslar with a utility trailer can tow nearly 7500 lbs as or more,efficiently then an an f150 electric can do when just occasional use is needed. I’ve always advised people to use more compact vehicles with utility trailers regardless of the power train unless you have an absolute demanding need more frequently. Imo, that hits a better sweet spot for electrification.

so, for the foreseeable future, I am in with a plug in hybrid electric truck which gives you the best of both worlds.

 

Btw, the holy grail of batteries is just around the corner. They will be expensive for a while, but the price like lithium should go down. Solid state batteries will double the range, halve the weight double the life with charging time of ten minutes. Still, they won’t approach the energy capacity storage of a tank of diesel or gasoline.

 

And that is the nitch EVs dominate ! It’s really MOST Americans.

 

The price of lithium will go up and might even become unavailable. There is a world wide shortage of lithium and they are not finding a new source.

 

Your suggestion is a good one. We bumped up,in size by one this time. Had the smallest Lincoln SUV now have a mid size Ford SUV. I do not want to go smaller. The same sized Lincoln cousin model would have been $8k+ more but the electronics and safety stuff and even most all of the buttons are the same with Ford and Lincoln of that model. My dad was a Lincoln Mercury fan so I still fall into that pit at times.

 

In my area, it's almost impossible to get approval for a solar system WITH backup batteries and DC/AC inverter...the reason given by the public utility is that stored battery power can be used during peak demand times which in theory will lower the utility revenue. Further, the solar systems must be sized for the actual average kW demand of the property, in which the utility will buy at wholesale unused solar generated power, but not 'large' unused power since the utility does not want power generation competition. All of this nonsense in a county that obtains 30% of it's power from alternative energies with goals of increasing this every year.

IMO, contrary to what climate deniers perpetrate, society should focus on expanding all modes of alternative energy, with seamless distribution on a national grid, realizing that alternative energies will generally not supply 100% of the electric power required. The nation will always require large scale power generation, like nuclear and hydro, along with some coal/gas. However, the focus of growth must be on alternative energies to greatly reduce carbon emissions.

Again, all of this is not about technology or exorbitant costs...all of this is achievable today...the only thing missing is the collective will to do better...

 

A battery backup system is designed based on the kW demand during a period of time. If an average home uses 900 kWh per month, or about 30 kWh per day, just multiply this by the number of days you wish to use solely backup power. If you pick 5 days, 5 * 30 kWh = 150 kWh of battery storage is needed. If you can count on solar/wind power generation during each day, then this reduces the amount of battery storage needed. Since nothing is free!...few people are going to size their backup batteries for 5 or 10 days of continuous use. Typically the backup system will power 1-2 days of demand, like during dark, until charging can begin again. It's a calculation based on demand versus cost versus comfort, etc.

In my area, due to it being rural and because of wild fires, it's not uncommon for utility power to be off 1-10 days. My answer was to invest in two propane standby generators, one 8 kW that powers our water and irrigation system, and one 20 kW that powers the balance of needs on the property. When we have frequent power outages life here goes on as normal without skipping a beat! Each property owner must decide what protection they desire, for what length of time, with what type of power source, and the affordability. There are myriad options...

 

Good. I don't see any of it going on around here though. It must be a big city thing.

 

Hmm.. Don't know where you live but lots of the year, in TX, the average home usage is greater than 2500 KWhs. Meaning that you would likely need (because of the conditions that created the event, more than 100KWs per day. Show us an example of 5-8 days of stored battery life from any manufacturer.

 

Great points.

One of the things we need to do is stop blocking entrepreneurs and private citizens from providing electricity.

Electric utilities still need revenue, obviously. The business management and construction/maintenance of our local grids is absolutely not free.

But, setting that up so that the utility has to protect its revenue by blocking home owners from being energy providers just makes no sense. We need to be ENCOURAGING that.

 

Most don’t even recognize them. They appear no different then regular models. Toyota alone has sold 15 million hybrids

 

The hybrid Ford 150 and it's generator has apparently saved a lot of Texas homeowners lucky enough to own one.

 

No, you have to do better than that.

The fact that people normally use some number of kwh does not mean they can't do well on less than that in extreme conditions. Also, I don't know what your "average" includes, but a significant part of Texas electricity consumption is in cooling. And, the warming side is less likely to be based on electricity.

Plus, ANY reduction in demand is a benefit to the community as a whole. Part of that oh so Texan idea of self reliance can include producing some or all of the electricity that you can get by on in an emergency.

A battery is one way to help with that. But, claiming it's a failure unless it provides full normal use power for a week is just not logical.

 

The average home in Texas uses 1,176 kWh a month, or 14,112 kWh a year, based on EIA data.
https://electricityplans.com/average-electricity-bill-in-texas/

1176 / 30 = 39.20 kWh per day. Just divide 39.20 by whatever battery size you desire...from 2.5 kWh's to 13.5 kWh's in Tesla batteries...then multiply by the number of days you wish the system to run without further charging...this tells you how many batteries you will need. If you have solar and/or wind power generation for 10% or 25% or 50% or 75% of the time you can factor this to require fewer batteries. Further, most with battery backup systems will greatly reduce their power demand during critical times, turning off or not using stuff, different lighting, etc. so the actual power demand during a critical time will be something much less than 39.20 kWh's per day...maybe half of this?

Bottom line is people can calculate their needs, then consider all of their options, and put something in place that works just for them...

 

A paradigm shift is necessary in which public/private utilities have a reasonable business model, one that considers all property owners as potential power generators, while the US provides a national power grid system. I suspect the only way for this to happen on a large scale is to remove profit motives...and good luck with this in the near future...

 

Yes so let's get the government out of subsidizing the cost of EV's and their power sources and have them compete in the fair market on an equal footing. And no hydrogen will not be more expensive than gas or electricity. It is expected to be on parity with gasoline in 5 years and faster if Biden's and the Dems keep making gasoline more expensive. First use would be commercial fleets with their own hubs and refuel capability or enough hub centers to have the fueling stations. Electric heavy hauling just does not make sense and if it every does it will be decades. Compare the weight of the batteries to the weight of the hydrogen for the same time and distance. That's lots more freight to load.

 

What Biden is doing is not changing the price of gas.

When subsidies were set for EVs they were limited to the first 200k cars. That mark is being reached and so subsidies have ended or are ending. These subsidies were set in order to help the EV industry get started - not as a sustaining direction.

On the other hand, we subsidize oil and gas. There are a number of different tax breaks that we give for oil and oil products. Those have NO end date. Why are we still subsidizing oil and oil products???

Hydrogen cars have EXACTLY the same motors as EVs have. Hydrogen is just a way of storing energy. Hydrogen cars have technology for turning hydrogen back into electric energy, which is then used to power the car.

So, suggesting hydrogen trucks will be stronger than EV trucks simply doesn't make any sense. They are BOTH EVs.

The weight comparison has to account for the need to keep hydrogen safely stored at seriously high compression. The weight of the hydrogen itself is just not even slightly the issue.

 

I will increase the cost of gasoline. They will be shipping oil by train and trucks with increased cost, risk and added CO2. Additionally much of the oil, if not all. will no longer be shipped to our Gulf Coast Refineries. It will be likely shipped to China to their refineries.

The so called subsidies are generally expenses by the oil companies which are deductible just like any expense by any other company.

 

The cost of moving oil is just not detectable in the price of gas. There are too many other factors of greater significance.

And, I don't believe you can defend your argument about needing to get more oil to our refineries on the gulf coast in order to protect our current gas prices.

 

It is a significant cost. Otherwise they would never build a pipeline. Just haul them by truck or train.

If it is not refined by us, it will be refined by some other country and we will have to pay for foreign refined gasoline which makes us more dependent on other countries. Never a good idea for a critical material.

 

We aren't short on gasoline.

We are dependant on other nations in HUGE numbers of ways - involving both national security and our economy.

And, that has propelled us to the economic status and the standard of living that we have today.

Free market capitalism is a good thing, especially for economic powerhouses like the USA.

In the US, 68% of the market for oil products is in transportation. It's high in other countries, too.

What we can do to reduce the cost of gas, using capitalism, is move toward electric transportation. That's what other countries are doing and it is happening here, too.

I don't necessarily believe that should be done by force. But, today auto manufacturers in the US and other countries see the future as being electric. There are very real advantages that customers want.

Our infrastructure investment needs to be in electricity. Ask Texas. Read the analyses of the fragile nature of our national grid.

Look at the lost opportunity for homeowners who could be making more money from home solar if their utility companies would just allow them to contribute their excess.

Let's get energy independent, not oil independent or gas independent.

We'll always have really important uses for oil and gas. But, as oil gets more scarce it will be of increasing value. Why make such a major point of selling our oil today when it is as cheap as it will EVER be? In NO WAY does that make sense in terms of marshalling our nations resources.