MH17 shot down by Buk missile brought from Russia, say investigators

I'd put money that those innocent victims stopped a Russian invasion. Denial of the use of airspace is a preparatory phase for ground operations, and Russia had amassed large formations on the border. Most importantly at that time the Western media had lost interest in the Ukraine and no-one in Europe had really shown any interest in what happened in the Crimean. So Moscow saw its chance but they made a mistake, civilians died, and the world's attention swung right back.

What surprises me is them taking the BUK back to Russia. Supply is one thing, but if they didn't operate it themselves they were not involved.... but to take it back - that makes Russia complicit in the crime itself!!

Dunno how the Russian's let Putin get away with it. Surely they don't believe that nonsense about Western lies?

 

Didn't take long for the pro-Moscow troll army to take to the net attacking the JIT report. To be expected. Can't say I expect much more from Russians, paid trolls or otherwise. Sadly there will always be people in the West prepared to excuse anything done by an anti-Western power.

 

It won't tarnish Putin's image,
he is still glamorous.

 

I'm not surprised - the Russians obviously didn't want another such incident.

 

Conclusion of the preliminary results of the investigation by the Joint Investigation team (official report, not newspaper-ish):

Shouldn't have been there in the first place - both weapons and Russians.

My apologies for the misunderstanding in the spy convention thread.

 

Noted, but I have no wish to discuss it with you.

 

I wish!

 

Foremost there was not supposed to be Kiev's chasteners .

 

Ukrainian fighter-bombers had been hitting rebel territory like when they blew this womans legs off in Lugansk, so I suppose when the Buk operators saw a blip approaching they let fly.
The airline was at fault for flying an airliner over a war zone (duh), I hope the passengers relatives sue the socks off the airline..

 

Strange that missile warhead that supposedly was used to shoot down MH17 is an old version and used only by Ukraine and few ex-USSR satellites - Russia don't have those for quite a while.
If they would claim that rebels stole launcher from Ukrainian army but russians trained them to use it, it would be much credible. Current version it is just a propaganda without any evidence.

 

The question to you, dear liberal democrat bigfella.
Why "Western power" have not closed the territory of Donbass for civil aircraft?
For what purpose they did not do it?
How can you "excuse" this?



Look at the map.
The Closing the territory of the war for civilian aircraft would not have caused any inconvenience.

A civilian aircraft don’t need to fly long away To circumnavigate the Donbas,

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36350520[/QUOTE]

 

So what's new?

 

And therefore Ukraine's hidden data Ukrainian radars, hidden conversations Ukrainian air traffic controllers and hidden data dislocation Ukrainian "Buk"?.... Where is the logic?

It is 100% a political investigation. Why did not anyone studied Russian radar data? Why not study investigated the "Almaz-Antey" (producers of "Beech") data? Why is not allowed to investigate the representatives of Russia, but the representatives of Ukraine allowed? .... And so on. The Dutch are hoping that a large war all hide? Silly Dutch. Do not hide.

 

I allow a theoretical opportunity that rebels of the DPR were armed with MANPADs delivered by Russia. But, first, it is present no proofs. Secondly, there is no need to deliver MANPADs from Russia, risking reputation of Russia and sanctions when rebels of the DPR got Many MANPADs from the Ukrainian warehouses.

I don't know, it is aware you or not, but the huge numbers of the Ukrainian weapon was concentrated in the east of Ukraine. In Donbass. Before uprising. And when Donbass announced independence, Donbass got all this Ukrainian weapon. Small arms, ATGMs, artillery, armored trucks, tanks and, including, MANPADs.

Besides, when the coup in Ukraine in general began, the government lost any control over weapon warehouses. And they were plundered. The huge number of this stolen property of weapon was sold to Donbass later. Including — MANPADs. About big losses of MANPADs from the Ukrainian warehouses it was written in Ukrainian news in April, 2014. Here they were also applied then actively in Donbass.

For Russia in this story there is very few place. The prize is small, potential losses — huge. So Russia objectively helped only treatment of wounded fighters (by the way including Ukrainians who with fights left the territory of Donbass through border to Russia), military preparation, intelligence information. To deliver from Russia to insurgents sense weapon was practically not.

 

Were the weapons used bought by Ukraine and then stolen from the rebels? Or were they physically brought in from Russia?

 

nobody thinks the rebels shot down a passenger plane on purpose.

it was a mistake.

they assumed no airliner would be stupid enough to fly their planes in a warzone.

they thought it was a Ukrainian military cargo plane.

mistakes happen in war.

 

Yes, it is. The fact that the MH17 has been shot down by Buk was clear almost from the very beginning.

Usual military propaganda. Then both parties started a lot of misinformation for the purpose of intimidation of the opponent.

You don't see that this version doesn't match the version of JIT? In this article it is said that rebels had Buk at the beginning of July. And the version of JIT says that Buk brought from Russia on July 17 (allegedly tell telephone negotiations about it).

Besides, I will repeat the many times asked question. If MH17 has been shot down by the Russian Buk, then why everywhere appears only 9A310? Where 9C18 and 9C470? And what sense to carry them without 9A39? Buk is a complex. It not the autonomus launcher as Osa or Tor.

 

or simply taking credit for their military operation

 

Russia carried out test and much more terrible weapon there. To it there are many proofs too.

[video=youtube;Ka4Gdvu_8LY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka4Gdvu_8LY[/video]

Here proof of deliveries of the Russian weapon to Ukraine

[video=youtube;M92Jj99ADeU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M92Jj99ADeU[/video]

The artful Russian aircraft is even able to fly to the USA unnoticed for the American radars:

[video=youtube;oDFfydOzJPQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDFfydOzJPQ[/video]

All of you still continue to trust muddy videos from social networks? I already gave in a subject above disagreements in the Ukrainian videos when for the taken-out Buk two different launchers are obviously given.

 

You don't know. You trust proofs on materials from social networks. And here the fact that in that area there were deployed Ukrainian Buks it is the fact. As well as the fact that Ukraine already shot down civil airliners on military exercises earlier.

 

the rebels took pride in having their BUKs.

they used them to take down several Ukrainian planes.

 

The West believes only in what is told in the western media. In Russia nobody trusts media. The immunity imparted since the USSR. But in Russia at very many people direct short connections with Ukraine. Therefore there we know the truth about the events much better than the western inhabitants.

What here to say when on July 17, 2014 I came back by train from the resort and passed in 50 miles from the place of falling of MH17. And distance from east parts of Ukraine to Moscow — 280 miles. It is less, than from New York to Pittsburgh.

 

they trust Russian tv which is almost 100% owned by the government

 

They say that Russia got somewhere specially old Buk, from storage locations. They don't know how it is difficult and expensive to store an unnecessary difficult technique in the Russian climate and as quickly it therefore is destroyed

In Russia there are no places, similar to storage bases of the USA in Nevada.

Yes, such version would be much more authentic. Though she isn't the most probable, but at least quite possible.

 

Interestingly, the Western users know that Almaz-Antey has taken an unprecedented step and has declassified full information about Buk? But this information hasn't been used in JIT investigation.

Summary:

Side of Russia and DPR:

— At once allows to the accident site of journalists
— Provides all conditions for collection of remains and fragments of MH17.
— At once publishes the available intelligence information, including radar records.
— Makes own investigation including natural experiments.
— Information about SAM Buk fully declassifies.

Party of the West and Ukraine:

— Forbids access to the place of fall
— Actively artillery shelling to place of crash from
— Classify (codes? — sorry my English) all intelligence information (negotiations of flight controllers, etc.)
— Goes on a direct lie, declaring that Ukraine has no Buk at all
— Destroys the certificates on availability which are available by then Ukrainian the Buk in this area
— Provides several counterfeits of very low quality (the "negotiations" of fighters of the DPR which are stuck together from short fragments of different quality and type)
— For a year delays export of fragments from the place of fall
— Ignores the Russian Buk specifications
— Two years make the closed investigation

All of you still believe that the first party is unambiguously guilty, and the second plays fair play? Then you should air a brain very well...