Gun Control Works! Here's the Proof

Because it is relatively normal to see armed people in the USA i guess... so it is hard to tell the difference between a peaceful gun owner and a belligerant one.

 

First of all, talking about "gun homicides" and "gun suicides" isn't a valid metric.

You must count ALL homicide and ALL suicide.

You have multiple logical fallacies in here, and you start with the critical theory premise that gun control lowered homicide and suicide.

What was the murder rate in the UK in 1800 before gun laws? Largely the same as it is now.

In Australia, their firearm murder rate started a downward trend in the 1980's well before "gun control"

In Australia, their suicide rate is at an all time high.

As far as the declines in the murder rate in the UK and Australia falling in the 90's, how much has the US murder rate declined since the 90's WITHOUT any kind of gun control?

Comparing the murder rate between the UK and the US is nearly impossible. A dead body that isn't a suicide and isn't natural in the US is automatically a homicide. In the UK a dead body that isn't a suicide and isn't natural is NOT a homicide UNTIL THERE IS A CONVICTION. No conviction, no homicide.

Your post is a swiss cheese argument.

 

I don't follow your logic or meaningful statistics. What would the murder by gun rate be in a society were nobody had any guns (not including government murder)? My guess is it would be very close to zero. But what has this to do with inalienable individual rights, other than by observation the people in that no-gun society have very few individual rights?
I bet if you outlawed mentioning anyone's name in media reports, the number of libel and slander civil crimes would drop precipitously. I bet if you outlawed public display of religion, internecine religious battles would drop precipitously. And it would drop Islamist terror murders to zero!

 

Nah, we don't have these issues in some "gun free" zones and do in others.

 

"And it would drop Islamist terror murders to zero!"

While we endlessly militarily occupy the middle east?

Doubtful.

 

Do you REALLY believe that people in Western Europe have few rights? If you do, maybe you should get out more. Visit the Speakers' Corner in Hyde Park in London for a demonstration of the freedom of expression. Watch the numerous impromptu marches in Berlin for a demonstration of the freedom to protest. Travel from country to country in the European Union without ever showing your passport, having to change money, or seeing a border official to experience the freedom of movement.

The freedoms that Europeans enjoy are far too numerous to list, but I don't feel any less free in Europe than in the USA with one exception: the Europeans frown on people carrying lethal weapons including guns and knives with long blades.

 

Australia’s gun death rate was already far lower than the US gun death rate PRIOR to the stricter guns laws they enacted in 1996. Just food for thought.

 

Excellent post!

 

I can't make heads or tails out of that jumble of statements and questions, and I've never heard of a swiss [sic] cheese argument before. I haven't the patience to go through and respond to your unconnected statements one by one.

I will address two points.
1. With regard to "gun homicides" and "gun suicides", although I may have mentioned gun homicides, the figures I gave for homicide rates in various countries include all homicides, not just those committed by firearms.
2. As to the UK, even if you disagree with the figures so much that you triple the ones for the UK, the result would still be far below the US homicide rate.

 

People in Norway, Germany and France have as much freedom as Americans, and they are able to pursue a happy healthy life w/o the fear of being killed or maimed by a gun.

 

True, but even then the Australians weren't so fanatical about "gun rights" as a substantial minority of Americans are, and compared to the USA, there were fewer guns per capita in circulation.

 

Contrary to what you’ve been led to believe....we don’t walk around with fear of being killed or maimed by a person with a gun.

 

Then why do you all need to be armed?

 

If you think Norway, Germany, and France are not fee countries, you need to get out of the house more. Except for the right to carry lethal weapons, they essentially have all of the rights that Americans have, and when it comes to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," they are even better off. They live longer than we do, enjoy better health care, and are much less likely to be shot to death.

 

If by "we" you mean people in the USA, that depends on where in the USA you live. Some Americans do walk around with that fear.

 

I lived in Germany and I call BS. Try washing your car in your driveway, or allow it to idle so the defroster can melt the ice off of the windshield, or pass by an auto accident and not stop and render first aid, or run out of gas on the road.

 

Which of those countries have you lived in?

 

We don’t. Contrary to what you’ve been led to believe, VERY few Americans carry a firearm.

 

I know and understand the Swiss gun laws and by your admission, laws are meaningless unless they are followed. The Swiss have a very high respect for their culture and they honor their heritage. Their entire population is about that of Virginia. I highly doubt you will hear someone complaining that the Swiss driving test is not published in 15 different languages The United States on the other hand is becoming the opposite of that. If you embrace the mixing of cultures in this country you better accept the fact there will be more violence. Do I like feeling the need to carry a firearm for the protection of my family when we enter a dark parking lot on a weekend night? No, but we all feel a lot more comfortable in doing so. The choice is up to you. I have the training and I have made the decision I love my family too much to not be as protective as I can.
BTW, I am a handgun instructor and have taught hundreds of women of all ages to be safe and smart. The self confidence they gain is amazing.
Sheep and sheepdogs.

For the fifteenth time I ask, What laws would have prevented the Parkland shooting?

 

Germany and France, and I sailed out of Narvik, Norway on a ship that went back and forth carrying iron ore, so I was in Norway about every two weeks. I have also lived in Sweden and Spain. I worked in Germany and Sweden, and I attended university in France. I still spend several months a year in Western Europe.

 

Where do you live now?

 

Paradise Valley, Arizona. It's a small town pretty much surrounded by Phoenix.

 

I have a cop buddy that lives in Mesa. Is America your native country?

 

Well- at least you recognize that there is a difference in people to some degree. That's a start.
Discrimination - the ability to define individual factors- is a necessity, although we have lots of people saying it's terrible.
If you can't tell the difference between a gangster and a little old lady crossing the street, ya got trouble for sure.

Keep working on that skill, see if you can grasp the difference between a homicidal maniac and a person willing to risk their life to save yours.

 

Yes, I was born in the USA.