Killing Obamacare means pre-existing conditions not covered!!!

I would not call human torture R&D. Sorry, but Cuba is still a Communist country and one America should never emulate.

 

neither is public highways, interstates, fire departments, ect... but we still as a society prefer them

 

no, we want social democracy.

big difference

and yes, how come Conservatives dont call for private fire departments, police, ems, etc?

i guess they like some "socialism"

 

fake news

 

America cant become communist no matter how bad someone wants it. So there goes that.
Repeating that statement again just makes you look naive. Look, today you learned something.

I didnt say to emulate Cuba, i was showing you how youv been lied to. R&D will exist no matter how hard anyone tries to stop them.

 

But if single payer is in play, treatment can be denied, if the UK is any example. Currently, as much as I deplore supporting insurance companies, I still have the option of paying for something myself if I deem it necessary.

 

it can be denied by private care today.... right?

so if your right, you still have the option of paying for it yourself, no one stopping you

the point is, it should be the doctors and patients deciding - not the government, not private insurers

 

Well guess what? Move to Europe if you want that. We don't want Socialism in the US. got it yet?!?!?!

 

Aside from statements that Trump's health care plan will probably include pre-existing conditions, I'd like you to explain how the consequences of that are in anything less than welfare.

We have insurance for about everything, on your house, your car, your life, etc. We pay insurance in order to create a buffer against loss and liabilities. Insurance distributes those losses across all who are insured, so that they are not catastrophic to a few. We participate in that voluntarily, or in some cases as a requirement such as driving- but even then, the requirement is for liability, to cover the damage we might do to othes so they do not suffer unjustly.

So what if we made all insurance cover pre-existing conditions? The most obvious aspect of that is there would be no need to have insurance prior to an accident. If you had a car wreck, you would go buy insurance, and they would cover the damage. House fire? Same thing. In other words- pre-existing condition insurance isn't a buffer for potential future expense, it's a way to insure after the fact. Are we going to charge for pre-existing conditions in proportion to the probable claims? Of course not, because nobody with any serious condition could afford it. All the concepts of pre-existing condition insurance are social welfare programs; a tax we don't want to call a tax. Let's stop pretending it's insurance, and call it what it is- Welfare.

 

Is that the current mantra of 100 million???

 

No, currently payment can be denied by an insurance company. You can still have the treatment.

As the UK proved, if they say no to a treatment, you do not have the option of paying for it yourself. The parents of a dying child were told that if they went outside of the NHS for a treatment for their son, they would be forever banned from using the NHS, regardless of the fact that it would have been paid for by people here in the US.

Do you honestly want to be living in that kind of environment?

 

Obamacare "fixed" all that? No Obamacare imposed the cost of those on other people. It's the democratic mantra- somebody else will pay your bills; we'll screw them instead of you, so vote for us.....

There's probably a rational, reasonable answer to the problems here. If and when the people involved decide to be rational and reasonable, we can probably agree on one.

 

Give em time...

 

He HAS no plan. And trusting Trump to do something???

Are you KIDDING?

How's that wall coming.

Oh...he always has excuses but...

 

There is a difference between 'socialism' and 'societal pools'.

 

This is wrong in several ways.

It had nothing to do with cost, nothing to do with the right to pay yourself, and everything to do with what was best for the child.

The child was denied treatment because treatment - at the NHS or anywhere - was totally futile. His brain was so damaged that the damage wasn't even visible on an MRI - only water and cerebrospinal fluid. Doctors decided that the humane decision was to end life support. As his parents objected the hopsital took the matter to court so that the court could decide what was in the best interests of the child. It went all the way to the European Court of Human Rights who ruled against the parents, and they were banned from taking him anywhere else for care. (Not banned from the NHS).

As I said, nothing to do with costs. The child spent 18 months in ICU costing $ thousands a day, and the NHS spent close to $200,000 on legal fees.

Note also that the NHS does pay for treatments - even experimental ones - not available in the UK, if a clinician believes their patient should have the opportunity to try them.

 

govt. ownership and control of an industry, is socialism.

govt. run police, fire department, ems, schools, water/power/sewers/road maintenance, is socialism.

most Conservatives have no problem with these things and would NEVER demand they all be privatized.

 

Correct. Some services are most efficient in universal form, such as a fire department, and everyone is at risk of fire.

 

no, i will not move.

i will stay in America and strike and work to make it better.

your demand that I leave the USA rather than work to improve it, is Fascism.

 

Ronstar, tell us how YOU will make it better. Not make someone else pay bills for you, because that makes it better for you but worse for them.
How will you make it better without screwing somebody else?
If you can figure that out, lots of people are interested.

 

The government does not control the 'product' nor the means of creation. I don't know where you live, but we have private EMS (as in not owned by a government) we have volunteer fire departments funded by donations, our electric system is a cooperative of which I am a member, and my water/septic is privately owned.

Societal pools are not socialism. You can claim it all you want, but that is not fact based on the definition of socialism.

 

so you oppose health insurance?

cause the way it works is when you need a sudden emergency and expensive procedure, its paid for by OTHER peoples' money. unless of course you are going to tell us you personally pay health insurance hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

how would i make health insurance better?

#1. reduce the cost of medical school.

#2. reduce the cost of drugs. allow import from Canada. allow Medicare/Medicaid negotiate drug prices.

#3. allow people under age 65 to buy into Medicare, and make Medicare a FULLY comprehensive health insurance plan, with dental, drugs, etc etc with reasonable co-pays/deductibles.

#4. reduce the eligibility age of Medicare to 55.

#5. expand Medicaid to ALL poor persons nationwide.

 

I did not say it had anything to do with cost. The NHS threatened the parents that they would be excluded from NHS if they sought treatment outside of NHS regardless of who paid for it. They took their parental rights away, because they did not have control of the treatment.

That is not an environment I'd care to live in, and that is exactly what single payer could be if allowed. You open the door, and you cannot stop it from doing what it will.

 

govt. paid for and controlled industry IS socialism.

most cities and large towns have govt. funded and controlled police/fire/schools/ems/water/sewer/highway maintenance.

thats socialism. the alternative is for-profit companies do this and thats a recipe for disaster cause their primary concern is making money and cutting costs and paying people as little as possible

 

For societal pools, the community does not own the means of production, nor does the government. The distribution is not regulated or controlled by the community or government as a whole.

Under your statement, the 'government' could decide who gets their house fire put out, or who has access to water or electric. If you think the government has that capability then perhaps you have been living in the city of too long.