Rockets Fired Between Gaza and Tel Aviv

That will never happen. There is too much money to be made from war. Alas.

 

Thanks for this.

Excruciating history!

"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive. "

 

There is too much money to be made in the holy lands with all of their mineral resources that were the lands to be controlled by islam then the western corporations wouldnt be allowed to have any of it. The whole continent would end up like iraq 1999.

 

When the Jews got persecuted by the Christians, they always had a save haven in the Arab Muslim Ottoman empire where they were allowed to climb up on the highest level on their social economic ladder... except to rule as a Sultan over them. They even appointed a Rabbi to deal with their own Jewish mariages, divorces and inheritance laws. Mehmed II had no problem to appoint a Jew to be his minister of finance, have an other Jew to control the mint, and an other be his personal physician. That doesn't exclude that there were troubles in that empire that lasted for centuries. But facing extinction there was a clear no. The Christians had them idea's. And for that "existential" response after the holocaust, the Christian colonial white west figured out that the best spot to put their own Jews is somewhere else where they can ethnically cleanse their little hearts out against brown people whose life did not matter, and than cry wolf when it meets resistance.

Nonsense. They were made to pay an extra form of tax because they got exempt to throw their lives away in the armies. If they enlisted in the armies like everybody else, it would mean they would no longer would need to pay that taxation. Muslims had no choice and got conscripted.

 

"Going home" is laying it on a bit thick.



https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-and-non-jewish-population-of-israel-palestine-1517-present

There were hardly any Jews in Palestine for centuries. In fact, Zionists looking for a Jewish refuge looked at other possible homelands.

 

Palestinians in many cases got out of the war areas.

 

Well, I wanted to show "hatred of Jews" is not an accurate statement, for the period from King David down through successive conquests by world empires, to the Roman conquest.

And not all Roman emperors, nor invading Persians and Muslims hated Jews:

"Julian the only emperor to reject Christianity after the conversion of Constantine, allowed the Jews to return to "holy Jerusalem which you have for many years longed to see rebuilt" and to rebuild the Temple. However Julian was killed in battle on 26 June 363 in his failed campaign against the Sassanid Empire, and the Third Temple was not rebuilt at that time.

During the Byzantine–Sassanian War of 602–628 many Jews sided against the Eastern Roman Empire in the Jewish revolt against Heraclius, which successfully assisted the invading Persian Sassanids in conquering all of Roman Egypt and Syria. In reaction to this, further anti-Jewish measures were enacted throughout the Eastern Roman realm and as far away as Merovingian France.[19] Soon thereafter, 634, the Muslim conquests began, during which many Jews initially rose up again against their Eastern Roman rulers.[20


But yes, Christianity was a major 'hater' of Jews.

But now, can we get rid of the UNSC veto and implement UN res. 242?

Or create one state of Israel-Palestine, with Jerusalem as the spiritual capital of the three Abrahamic religions?

 

The problem is that the Jews systematically bulldozered town after town if they were inhabited by Arabs who fled for their lives. The Jews than made it the law, that people who flee are allowed to return,... only when they are Jew and the real estate of those banned from returning is to be thieved. And so the heart of the matter currently still is that the Jew get to claim real estate outside Israel with the help of the Israeli courts, while +700,000 Arab civilians can not get their real estate back. Hence the self proclaimed Jew State is a hypocritical racist nation that still supports ethnic cleansing on an very big scale.

 

@notme is playing the game of pro-lifers who derisively refer to pro-choicers as "pro-abortion."

 

To start with a non Muslim could never serve in a Muslim army so your contention Jews paid not to be conscripted is utterly false.

Next your blanket denial of how Jews were threatened with extinction by Muslims in Muslim states is utterly false.


You make sweeping false statements about Jewish history with no substantiation.

Your statements with no references making blanket claims about how Jews lived in the ME to base your position they faced no existential threat that required they create a state is of course without any basis.

There are no shortage of historic references indicating what happened to Jews in Muslim states including a text from Bernard Lewis whose reference I quote and foot-note: "The Golden Age of equal rights was a myth, and belief in it was a result, more than a cause, of Jewish sympathy for Islam."(2)

To go through the complete history of Jews and how they were existentially threatened would take pages but I can summarize just some examples which unlike you I footnote:

· in 622 AD, in Medina when Jews refused to convert to Islam Muhammed expelled them in 627 and also ordered the killing of 600 to 900 Jews(3)

· the pith and substance of the existential threat comes from the Koran’s teachings incorporated in its states that do not separate religion from state including these passages among many: "They [the Children of Israel] were consigned to humiliation and wretchedness. They brought the wrath of God upon themselves, and this because they used to deny God's signs and kill His Prophets unjustly and because they disobeyed and were transgressors" (Sura 2:61).

· The Koran teaches Jews introduced corruption (5:64), have always been disobedient (5:7, are the enemies of Allah (2:979

· the current Hamas Charter quoting the Koran and calling for a holy war against Jews worldwide is an expression of this form of Islam (note: given the many passages in the Kiran, to deny Islamic extremism dating back thousands of years that calls for the destruction of all Jews is still not part of today’s Islamic extremist terrorist ideologies against Israel is absurd)

· Muslims in Muslim states were part of an apartheid system called dhimmitude-this concept refers to a “writ of protection” issued to non Muslims in exchange for them agreeing to certain conditions otherwise they would be killed-it had nothing to do with being drafted that is utterly false-non Muslims were given the choice of conversion to Islam or deah-unless they paid a fee and agreed to the conditions of this which segregated them and to this day still does-in dhimmitude, non Muslims can not own land, can not engage in any legal proceeding or business dealing with a Muslim unless another Muslim serves as a go between and can not testify in court because non Muslims are necessarily defined as being incapable of trust-people can research the system of dhimmitude for themselves to see how you misrepresented it and tried to simplify it as a payment not to serve in a Muslim army

· Jews and non Muslims in fact paid a JIZYA as well, a yearly poll tax that had nothing to do with serving in a Muslim army

· in fact Jews and other Dhimmits were excluded from public office and armed service, and were forbidden to bear arms

· they could not build synagogues or churches taller than mosques, to construct houses higher than those of Muslims or to drink wine in public

· they must pray or mourn in loud voices so as to not offend Muslims

· Dhimmis were required to yield to the centre of the road to show respect to Muslims

All the above can be found in any text or reference to Dhimmitude.

· In fact Dhimmis were also forced to wear yellow badge for Jews, which is where the Nazis got their idea from.(5)

In regards to specific violence and existential threat to Hews Jews were generally viewed with contempt which led to:


· December 30, 1066-the crucifixion of Joseph HaNagid, the Jewish vizier of Granada, Spain, by an Arab mob that proceeded to raze the Jewish quarter of the city and slaughtered 5,000 Jews incited by Muslim preachers;

· 1465, Arab mobs in Fez, Morrocco slaughtered thousands of Jews,claiming a Jewish deputy vizier treated a Muslim woman in "an offensive manner and other killings touched off a wave of similar massacres throughout Morocco.(6);

· mass murders of Jews in Arab lands occurred in Morocco in the 8th century, where whole communities were wiped out by Muslim ruler Idris I; North Africa in the 12th century, where the Almohads either forcibly converted or decimated several communities; Libya in 1785, where Ali Burzi Pasha murdered hundreds of Jews; Algiers, where Jews were massacred in 1805, 1815 and 1830 and Marrakesh, Morocco, where more than 300 hundred Jews were murdered between 1864 and 1880.(7)

· there were ecrees ordering the destruction of synagogues were imposed by Egypt and Syria (1014, 1293-4, 1301-2), Iraq (854-859, 1344) and Yemen (1676);

· Jews were forced to convert to Islam or face death in Yemen (1165 and 167, Morocco (1275, 1465 and 1790-92) and Baghdad (1333 and 1344)(

· the list of attacks and Jews is too lengthy to continue but by the 19th century Jews in Muslim cities had to live in ghettos

· the largest community of Jews who were in Morocco were forcedto walk barefoot or wear shoes of straw if they ventured outside their ghetto

· in this Ottoman Empire described as positive to Jews in fact ritual murder accusations against the Jews became commonplac.(10)

· in 1909 H.E.W. Young, the British Vice Consul in Mosul stated and I quote:

“The attitude of the Muslims toward the Christians and the Jews is that of a master towards slaves, whom he treats with a certain lordly tolerance so long as they keep their place. Any sign of pretension to equality is promptly repressed.(11)

· more than a thousand Jews were killed in anti-Jewish rioting during the 1940's in Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Syria and Yemen.(13)

Sources:
1. Vamberto Morais, A Short History of Anti-Semitism, (NY: W.W Norton and Co., 1976), p. 11; Bernard Lewis, Semites & Anti-Semites, (NY: WW Norton & Co., 1986), p. 81.
2. Bernard Lewis, "The Pro-Islamic Jews," Judaism, (Fall 196, p. 401.
3. Bat Ye'or, The Dhimmi, (NJ: Fairleigh Dickinson University Press, 1985), pp. 43-44.
4. Bat Yeor, pp. 30, 56-57; Louis Gardet, La Cite Musulmane: Vie sociale et politique, (Paris: Etudes musulmanes, 1954), p. 348.
5. Bat Yeor, pp. 185-86, 191, 194.
6. Norman Stillman, The Jews of Arab Lands, (PA: The Jewish Publication Society of America, 1979), pp. 59, 284.
7. Maurice Roumani, The Case of the Jews from Arab Countries: A Neglected Issue, (Tel Aviv: World Organization of Jews from Arab Countries, 1977), pp. 26-27.
8. Bat Ye'or, p. 61
9. G.E. Von Grunebaum, "Eastern Jewry Under Islam," Viator, (1971), p. 369.
10. Bernard Lewis, The Jews of Islam, (NJ: Princeton University Press, 1984) p. 158.
11. Middle Eastern Studies, (1971), p. 232.
12. New York Times, (February 19, 1947).
13. Roumani, pp. 30-31.

 

Israel accepted the UN plan and the Arabs did not.

 

Bla bla... I'm not to blame that a government insists to be acknowledged as a place meant for only 1 single ethnic group by systematically putting that 1 ethnicity in front of their internationally known name,... while it's known history is that the ethnic group in question did some nasty ethnic cleansing on a very large scale in that very country. And I am taking my freedom to mock it, without a care in the world it hurts your little feels.

 

I made a specific referral to Mehmed II, and how he had no problems with having numerous Jews in high places, among things.. caring for his personal life. You just simply cut that part out when you posted your reply. Since you made such a false accusation ... I'm really can not be bothered to reply to anything else you put down.

 

I did not cut it off. You made a series of sweeping generalizations about the life of Jews denying they faced extinction which led to them creating a state. That is what I challenged not the specific incident you now cherry pick because you have no way of rebutting what I said so deflect.

 

Again you state a falsehood. laws of Israel clearly define the same legal rights for non Jewish Israelis. In fact the Law of Return is the only law only applied to Jews no different than 125 other democratic countries who identify and offer expedited immigration status to a specifically identified ethnic group.

Mr. Hillman and I have had our lovely heated debates as well however your personal remarks dont' help. However I do not complain to the moderator about them. I prefer to self police them and ignore them. I may have slipped though tongue in cheek in response having fun which I will avoid.

Your attempt to selectively ignore Jewish history in the ME or misrepresent it and speak with no substantiation speaks for itself.

I will again repeat to Mr. Hillman, Israel defines Jews both as a religious collective identity and national one. In the religious sense it does so like the UK is an Anglican state or the Vatican City is a Catholic state. However it also defines Israel as a safe haven for any Jew facing persecution for being Jewish anywhere in the world and will expedite their entry.

It also has an expedited admissions process for full Israeli citizenship non Jews will nto get. Non Jews have to enter and apply no different than immigrants do in Canada.

The difference though is a Muslim could apply and obtain Israeli citizenship. In all Arab League nations and Iran a Jew is not allowed to apply for citizenship.

Jordan was created as a Palestinian state to exclue Jews from living in that state. Please read its constitution.

As for the need for Jews to have created a state. In an ideal world, I am sure many of us agree all religions would be separated from state, and all people could enjoy the exact same freedoms. It doesn't work that way in the real world and many countries were built on wars, pain and suffering of many innocent people.

I was taught while gentiles forced we Jews to create a state as an existential imperative, other gentiles were righteous and died to protect us and that includes Muslims in Jordan who donated land, Muslims who fought in the IDF and side by side Jews in the Palestinian Brigade of the British Armed Forces against the Nazis in WW2. It includes the righteous gentiles of Europe who hid and died for us and died along with us in concentration camps including 7th Day Adventists, certain Lutherans and Catholics, Jehovas witnesses, socialists, communists, the mentally ill, the Roma people or the millions of gentiles who fought and defeated Hitler.

I was taught as a Zionist that Jews are to consider all people equally and live with them in co-existence. The Jewish religion I follow is called Reformist-Reconstructionist-Humanist. It has the same elements as Unitarianism, Taoism, Buddhism and gnostic Christianity. It does not define gentiles as evil and no Judaism does not allow the conversion of others the way Christians or Muslims do. You would have to come to us. We would not go to you. We don't proseltyze.

We also embrace people of all faiths who respect our identity and understand why we created a state including millions of Muslims who do. We were not taught Palestinians were terrorists. We do not use the word Palestinian interchangeably with Hamas which is being done on this board by Hamas supporters.

I lived with Beduins. I lived with Palestinians and Israelis. I do not presume to tell anyone of them where they can live. I express only my opinions.

 

That's what I said.

Of course. They're the same race.

You're flat wrong.

"The State of Israel has a population of approximately 9,227,700 inhabitants as of July 2020. Some 74.24% are Jews of all backgrounds (about 6,829,000 individuals), 20.95% are Arab of any religion other than Jewish (about 1,890,000 individuals), while the remaining 4.81% (about 434,000 individuals) are defined as 'others', including persons of Jewish ancestry deemed non-Jewish by religious law and persons of non-Jewish ancestry who are family members of Jewish immigrants (neither of which are registered at the Ministry of Interior as Jews), Christian non-Arabs, Muslim non-Arabs and all other residents who have neither an ethnic nor religious classification."​

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/state-of-palestine-population/

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/israel-population/

They could be if Gaza and the West Bank are eventually included in Israel because the West Bank becomes a Swiss cheese of Jewish settlements and a country of the West Bank and Gaza is no longer possible.

What are Palestinians? They aren't Jordanians, Egyptians, Syrians, or Lebanese.

Hohhhh-Kayyyyy....

 

What is your position on the Jewish West Bank settlements and the territorial status of the WB?

 

The BIGGER picture is not about the persecution of jews. It is about ridding the world of the warmongering capitalist tyrants who are hell bent on causing chaos and warfare on a global scale. On that note, NO european/american nations or any nation with their morals should be allowed anywhere near the holy lands once the dust settles. Once their mission is fullfilled we need a new environmentally friendly government on the throne in Israel.

 

Complete falsehood, at no time have I asked you why do Jews need a Jewish State. You cannot show it because I never wrote it.

You identified yourself as being a Jew, I have no idea why that was so important to you but simply used what you clearly felt was important to you Jewish Death.

 

Would anyone accept a plan where you are thrown out of your land to make way for foreigners from thousands of miles away to take over your land

 

Ah yes, the foreigners in their own land. Now come Arabs who 1,800 years ago be building a mosque on top of 3,000 years old Jewish temple and be calling it their land.

Go away!

 

Israelis are not known for turning the other cheek. And neither are the Jews for this matter.

 

Maybe he keeps telling you he is a jew because he thinks you dont believe he is.

 

Ask any white america, theyll tell you america is their own land. Its colonial dialect 101.

 

What did the Palestinian residents of Sheik Jarrah do to be evicted from their homes? ..