For those who think the election doubters have no grounds-

Only in your mind did I lose "more cred points"

 

That's true- but you have no idea how many others read and agree.
What I think about your cred doesn't matter. What YOU think about it does; it will determine your self-respect. While a person can lie to others, when we lie to ourselves- we destroy that.
I find self-respect to be perhaps the single most valuable asset you can have. Not everyone feels that way, but those who have genuinely earned it from themselves usually do. It requires us to be true to ourselves, and- to deal with what's real, like it or not. We don't dodge truth. It's often not what we would like, but it's what we must face.

The political issues in America aren't solved by trying to win arguments; they can only be solved by facing facts, being guided by solid values and making decisions that turn our path towards a better future.
Small children argue on BS and denial. Many grown-ups do too- but mature adults know they have to do better. It's a choice all of us have to make. Some will face it, some will dodge it.

 

This bolded statement brings that into question regarding election deniers.

 

I am not among those deluded individuals who threw their votes away on the salesman-showman con artist and follow him around like the Pied Piper.

You seem to be intelligent enough to see through Trump's thinly-veiled facade. Are your special interests important enough to you to unleash this power-hungry, self-serving, egotistical narcissist upon a country purchased by the blood and tears of patriots who dearly loved it???

. . . . The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (2 Thes. 2:3-11).

 

Unfortunately what you see, I consider to be the snow job of the left, a continuous effort to assassinate Trump's identity so they don't have to go head to head with him in an election.
They obviously fear that above all else, and they should- but they have put themselves in that position by failing to perform, failing to be loyal to the people and American values.
If he really was who they portray him to be, beating him should be no problem- assuming they could find a candidate the votes didn't already think unfit. Every time they throw more trash at him- his support goes up. There's enough people seeing this vendetta for what it is, that it's blowing back on the Democrats. Trump despite an incredible mountain of attacks and trashing- leads everyone right now. By the time the election gets here, the Democrats will have trashed themselves into major loss of not only the presidency but control of both houses of Congress.

If you look at what people do, and pay no attention to what they claim- you get a lot better picture of who they are.

Trump is narcissistic. Sometimes arrogant and has a number of faults. However, most people have faults, and politicians all have serious faults. They don't apologize, don't admit failure, don't take responsibility, and alter a lot of what they do to keep the big donors that fund their elections happy. Some- are vastly more flawed than others.

Despite trump's faults, he has the courage to call it like it is and take the heat from those who disagree- or don't want to see it. It's obvious he has a great deal of confidence in himself, and he's hardly subject to manipulation- meaning he doesn't let the BS from the bully left and the propaganda media phase his commitment to what he believes. Trump is a bit like George Patton from WWII. The Germans feared him above all others and he performed better than any other commander. But he was not politically cooperative, so he wasn't that popular among our leaders. The best man, taking heat from his own people.

On the Democratic side, there is not one person who doesn't change the rules whenever they can take advantage by changing the rules. A double standard of values, morals, and judgment is the only standard they have. The majority of the complaints about Trump are like yours- personal, unrelated to the record of his actual time in office. They call him names and slander him. At the same time, they defend the puppet in office who has a terrible record; having dumped over 6 million illegals around the country in his 3 years, and created a cost of around $450 billion for taxpayers on that one issue alone. That is a massive violation of the immigration law, and an honorable administration would have charged him and impeached him for it. He botched the Afghan withdrawal so badly it embarrassed the nation, and left behind about $80 billion of our arms and equipment for the enemy. I can't think of anything he's done that actually was good for the nation. Not one thing. Yet, many of the people who hate Trump think Joe's doing a good job- when mentally, he's been disconnected from reality for quite a while. It's amazing to me that anyone can look at this and close their eyes.

I understand how minds work, a lot better than the average person. I've trained executives and clinical psychologists in this process of reading people's identities and being able to separate the facade from the real person. Being able to predict what they would do in given situations. Trump has flaws, but many strengths and assets. He's tough, but competent and courageous. Joe Biden- just has flaws. There are no redeeming values.

If someone came along that had Trumps vision and strength without all the baggage they have hung on him- he'd get my vote. Lacking that, I would vote for Trump. The nation is in serious trouble- and it has a lot to do with the erosion of values among people, and the loss of truth in media. It's going to take some strong leadership to change that. I'm working on it.

You should consider that the person who would sell you out would not be telling you that at all; they would be telling you how evil those who oppose them are- how you needed them to save you from the evil, and pulling one dirty trick after another to fool you and destroy their enemy. They couldn't defeat the message, so they set out to kill the messenger. The truth is written on the wall, all you have to do is read it without the filters of bias. The demonstrations of the character void currently pandemic in the left are everywhere

 

Election fraud has always been a problem and will always be a problem to one degree or another. I like to think we all can agree upon that. Yet this does not prove Trump won as many believe. I have no loyalty to either side and have spent much time reviewing the evidence and have yet to see evidence that irrefutably proves Trump was denied a victory because of fraud. Personally I think Trump has a fragile ego that cannot handle such a rejection of him at the polls. On top of that he had been saying since 2016 that the only way he loses is if they cheat, which is insane.

Seems to me that the massive amount of hate towards the left have driven many to believe Trump’s rigged election claims over understanding how many of us are just sick and tired of his juvenile behavior and couldn’t stand the thought of another four years of him.

I have no problem voting for a republican, but not a faux republican like Trump that has made a mockery of the Christian Conservative values I was raised in and for the most part still subscribe to. Trump is an authoritarian and an enemy of not only Christian Conservatism but democracy itself.

 

Republicans try to impose their own values and lifestyle choices on others, whether they are personally affected or not. They believe that military weapons designed solely for the purpose of killing large numbers of enemy combatants quickly should be readily available for domestic purchase. They vote against ALL Democratic sponsored legislation, no matter how important. They change voting practices to favor their own party. . . . . . . . .

 

Trust me, there is zero damage to my self respect when I say that Trump is easily, and by far, the stupidest most corrupt individual that has been POTUS in my lifetime...and I was born in 1962

 

There's an article I read in the Guardian, that addresses the real problem.

To beat Trump, we need to know why Americans keep voting for him. Psychologists may have the answer
George Monbiot

snip~

We talk about society’s rightward journey. We talk about polarisation and division. We talk about isolation and the mental health crisis. But what underlies these trends is a shift in values. This is the cause of many of our dysfunctions; the rest are symptoms.

When a society valorises status, money, power and dominance, it is bound to generate frustration. It is mathematically impossible for everyone to be number one. The more the economic elites grab, the more everyone else must lose. Someone must be blamed for the ensuing disappointment. In a culture that worships winners, it can’t be them. It must be those evil people pursuing a kinder world, in which wealth is distributed, no one is forgotten and communities and the living planet are protected. Those who have developed a strong set of extrinsic values will vote for the person who represents them, the person who has what they want. Trump. And where the US goes, the rest of us follow.

Trump might well win again – God help us if he does. If so, his victory will be due not only to the racial resentment of ageing white men, or to his weaponisation of culture wars or to algorithms and echo chambers, important as these factors are. It will also be the result of values embedded so deeply that we forget they are there.
​

It's about values, and the righties are far more interested in chasing and worshiping extrinsic values over intrinsic values.

 

You're reading party line- and generally, false. For example, it's not the right pushing DEI, the idea that all white people are racists and white supremacists.
There are many things that are sore spots not because the radicals do them, but because they do push them on other- left and liberals, imposing things on the right.
I have voted for as many democrat presidents as republicans- but in the past, the levels of honor and integrity was much higher among democrats than it is today. Voting party line was never a considertion for me, but it's looking more and more like a wise choiice.

The guns are an issue of the 2nd amendment- and the AR-15 some people say are assault weapons, are not. The military never bought or used them, never even considered them They look like M-16's, but they are not the same. And one of the curious shooting records is a man who put 38 rounds in a 16" target at 200 yards, with iron sights on a bolt-action rifle holding only 5 rounds in the magazine- IN 60 SECONDS. I can hit a 12" target at 1,000 yards consistently. People who know guns handle them very carefully and responsibly. The ones who don't are the ones who don't follow laws and rules.
It's not the weapon that matters, it's the person using it. It's also the enforcement of the laws; it's already illegal for a felon to even touch a gun. IF we got tough on the criminals and the nuts, we wouldn't have the crime we do. And it's not the right going soft and turning them loose with no bail- that's your side.

You can't have a productive congress with people who lack common values and reasonable principles. While there are violators on both sides, the democrats win the game when it comes to unscrupulous tricks. One of them- it telling their followers that they are good guys and the other guys are not- and they cultivate dependence and ignorance instead of strength, so their followers don't think for themselves and are easier to fool.

The nation has mostly good laws, although too many. But when laws and rules aren't enforced- they have no power and do no good. That is the problem.

Your party is giving your money away, your freedom away, and your nation away. I guess you haven't noticed that. You have to look at what people do rather than what they say to be able to form an accurate opinion.

 

Being a psychologist does not make you right. I know, I've taught some of them who became psychologists trying to figure out who they were and why. For every article like that one, there is an article from some other "expert" saying the opposite. The lefties go around sorting these out and saying they prove something, and they do- they prove the followers are gullible people. The conservatives understand the value systems that build strong healthy people; they understand that the decisions we make today shape the future- and that the future is always coming fast. They don't expect others to pay their way either; they know that the least load is when we all take care of just one person- and they know that things you haven't earned, including self-respect, do not belong to you.
You're reading the wrong books.

 

A value shift is indeed the problem.

The values incorporated in the Constitution represent those in the Declaration of Independence, which at the bottom enumerates the reasons the colonists felt it necessary to split from England. We presently have nine Supreme Court justices, all of whom independently offer their own interpretations of the Constitution when consulted for a ruling. Often there is a 5-4 ruling, making it necessary for having an odd number for a deciding vote. Ideally, the Declaration of Independence should be consulted along with the Constitution in order to understand the signers' perspectives as would apply to particular issues. To ensure a correct ruling, there should be a unanimous ruling.

Money has risen on the value scale to where it is often considered legally and personally of greater worth than human life, giving new meaning to the "cost of living". As is commonly portrayed in recent motion pictures, people are actually dying because they can't afford medicine or surgical procedures. Others die from heat or cold because they can't afford utilities or housing. Regardless, a source of income is absolutely essential to ensure survival. Whether tax dollars should be used to provide assistance to the indigent is a major source of partisan contention.

My book, “FREEDOM DOESN’T TRICKLE DOWN: REFLECTIONS ON THE CHANGING FACE OF OUR DEMOCRACY” , elaborates on this topic. It is available on AMAZON for $10.99 in paperback or $2.99 in ebook.

 

Error in reply

 

Gaslighting is the typical MO among Trump followers on this forum, but truth and reality are unchangeable, regardless of attempted distortions.

 

As Musk said, it's nearly impossible to convince people who have been fooled that they have been fooled.
Truth and reality are unchangable, but being able to see them as they are is neccessary to know what they are.
Self-deception is vastly more powerful that the powers of others to deceive you.

I just posted this in current affairs; an NBC poll reflecting what the people are seeing right now. Looks like a lot of them have started paying attention to reality.

Stunning NBC Poll: Biden Presidency 'in Peril, Declined on Every Measure'

President Joe Biden hit yet another new low in his approval rating (37%) in the latest NBC News poll released Sunday, raising concern of the Democrat pollster, who said the "damning" results show "a presidency in peril."

Former President Donald Trump not only leads Biden by 5 points (47%-42%) in the national poll, but also leads by big margins:

• 23 points on mental and physical health to be president (46%-23%)
• 22 points on handling the economy (55%-33%)
• 21 points on dealing with crime and violence (50%-29%)
• 16 points on being competent and effective (48%-32%)
• 11 points on improving America's standing in the world (47%-36%)
• 35 points on securing the southern border (57%-22%)