Trump Ordered to Pay $355 Million and Barred From New York Business

I've found several instances of fraud within this court document.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24432591/ruling-in-donald-trumps-civil-fraud-trial.pdf

Here's one:

When questioned about whether he had ever inflated the value of 40 Wall Street, Donald Trump
was confronted with a Forbes article, including a published audio recording, dated September 21,
2022, that reported that Trump had told Forbes in 2015 that 40 Wall Street was 72 stories tall,
when in fact, it is only 63, resulting in an overvaluation of $50 million.

https://aviewoncities.com/new-york/40-wall-street

Says it's 72 stories

https://demo.processwire.com/cities/new-york-city/40-wall-street/

Says it's 70 stories

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/40_Wall_Street

Says it's 70 stories

Time for this judge and whoever wrote this finding to be taken in front of a judge for submitting a fraudulent property value.

 

Trump Org: We'd like a loan and here's our collateral.

Bank: Looks good, here's your money.

Liberals; That's racist.

 

Yes we know cons are racist.

 

Sorry to interrupt I just wanted to make a quick comment....

that's not entirely factual...and depends on a whole shed load of factors not limited to the type of loans involved - asset lending or asset financing just as an example...essentially the same thing but say with asset lending you would be using the asset as collateral; the collateral's value (not worth) being the audited balance sheet value of the asset not someone's gut feeling of it's worth - value and worth being entirely different concepts. The problem one then has is that banks syndicate and collateralise debt thus the true value of debt needs to be known in order to rate the financial instruments supporting the issuances....double entry book keeping...one mans credit being another mans debit...if the true value of the debt is not known then you can't stress test the balance sheets supporting the institutions behind them....which is a banking/financial regulatory issue.....which was the problem with mortgage debt collateralization back in the day being based on the false value of assets etc. etc.

back to normal programming.....

 

Nothing racist about it. The problem is that Trump misrepresented the value of his collateral so he wouldn’t have to pay as much interest. The banks he borrowed from would be many millions richer but for his fraud. But sure, play the “woke” card. It’s all you have.

 

False, false and false. Trump misrepresented the value of his collateral so he wouldn’t have to pay interest that reflected the actual risk to the banks he was borrowing from. As a result those banks lost out on millions in interest that they would have otherwise received. Seems like they were a victim.

This is all based on your false premise that there was no fraud.

 

The banks were not defrauded. They were happy with the valuations, they made money. They still want to loan money to the Trump Organization. However they won't be able to because of the court decision. The banks lose out because of the New York government, not Trump. New Yorkers deserve this travesty for electing the hate filled partisans they elected.

Yes it is. It is based on my correct premise that there was no fraud.

 

I defend Trump from the unprecedented national assault he has suffered, not because I like him or want him to be re-elected. I quit voting years ago when I was unable ever to find a candidate that wanted less government. I may go back to the polls this year to vote for Trump in protest to weaponized justice.

 

"weaponized justice" ? LMAO

So people who commit criminal acts should not be investigated and indicted if they are running for public office ?

How about this ? Stop committing criminal acts and avoid investigation and prosecution.

 

.....and are all banks that are on record still saying they'd like to continue doing business with Trump.

Do you think Deutsche Bank is some kind of rank amateur lending organization?

This is not the argument however.

NY inserted itself into a case where both parties were agreeable to the terms of a COMPLETED and paid in full arrangement, and paid ITSELF damages.

Nothing like this has ever occurred in US history, and the backlash is just beginning.

 

The NYC property case was the 1st time in history they pursued such charges with nobody having suffered any damages. All loans were paid back. Most of the cases against him are unprecedented. I wouldn't celebrate this kind of thing if I were you. It could affect politicians on the left as well.
You can deny weaponization but that's all it is, a denial of FACTS

 

Funny you should mention Deutsche Bank. They certainly looked amateurish when they had 2 different divisions (Private Wealth and Commercial lending)
submit loan proposals for the same Trump real estate transaction. Kind of like bidding against yourself, right ?

 

Kind of like wanting to give a customer you really want to keep options on a loan.

Give me something besides softballs here, but I did get a laugh at questioning lenders that are experts in routine loans in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

 

Trump should sue for fraud against 40 Wall Street in this farcical ruling.

Engeron decided to make 9 stories of 40 Wall Street disappear on page 36.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24432591/ruling-in-donald-trumps-civil-fraud-trial.pdf

When questioned about whether he had ever inflated the value of 40 Wall Street, Donald Trump
was confronted with a Forbes article, including a published audio recording, dated September 21,
2022, that reported that Trump had told Forbes in 2015 that 40 Wall Street was 72 stories tall,
when in fact, it is only 63, resulting in an overvaluation of $50 million.

I think Engeron's tape measure wasn't working.

 

What? I'm sure the democrat created Russian collusion farce, two impeachments for nothing, and multiple simultaneous state cases in an election year are all completely coincidental and definitely NOT a conspiracy.

 

How about this? Stop the weaponized justice and start prosecuting actual crimes with victims. Hundreds of them escape prosecution every day in the U.S. Hello big cities. Are you listening?

 

errmmm.....at the time....well yes to be frank.....their New York Branch failed a stress test based on their internal weaknesses governing their loan portfolio structures and oversights on their loan procedures.....but look...this isn't my fight so...I'm out

Sorry, do you mean entities overstating their assets in order to create revenue......am I reading that correctly

 

How about this ? We started with the biggest actual criminal: Trump. Got a good decision for our efforts, too.

 

Well they clearly didn't fail the stress test of their loans to Trump.

If you put your house on the market for 75K over market, and it sells, does the state get to step in and fine the person taking a loan for the over-valued property?

The people who determine the "value" of something are the two people in a business deal.

"Fraud" is only "fraud" when one party suffers damages.

If the banks in these loans thought they were defrauded, why did they not a) agree or b) receive compensation from this?

 

Again -
One more time -

The State of NY brought the fraud case. NY is a financial center of the country. ANY fraud that occurs in the State of NY hurts the
reputation and security of the State as said financial center. If they do not prosecute known fraud just because a bank may not
have been hurt THIS TIME, then they are announcing to the world that you can get away with fraud in NY. THAT'S why their
financial laws are far more strict than most States. Is what it is.

 

LoL.

There was no fraud. Fraud requires one party to suffer damages. Neither party in the business transaction was damaged.

By NY rewarding itself, it has made the claim IT was damaged.

NY has definitely damaged it's reputation and security of the state, but it wasn't Trump that did it.

They've dug their own grave. You'll understand in time.

 

no but as I said before if you can't reliably quantify your asset and liability base then you cannot apply the correct procedures to its protection ergo there is a regulatory issue....look that's really simply put it's way more complex but you get the idea I assume? I have a feeling that you're getting caught up in the rhetoric rather than understanding the reality.

Again you're confusing a number of issues, bad client management practice with the regulatory risks involved with insufficient banking practice (for want of simplification) and portfolio oversight. The issue is the shareholders/bondholders and other banks that support the capitalisation of the banks...the regulators who oversee them....and the Federal government (who to some degree provide the back stop). Again using DB as your example, in the highly unlikely event of default then all the assets and liabilities of the branch's structure will come under scrutiny and if the bank is consistently showing weak KYC and weak loan principles and practises then you are defrauding the public (which they were following the Fed's investigation). This is not as you want your fellow Americans believe a victimless crime. The credit default swaps that brought down Lehman's and but for the Fed would have bankrupted AIG etal....were they also victimless crimes? They are effectively examples of the ultimate outcome of what you are trying to shrug off as...meh...it doesn't really matter.... Unfortunately it does.

Look....as I said this is not my issue but your responses are leading you down into that conspiracy theory rabbit hole..which kind of happens when one is trying to fudge issues.

 

And he will be acquitted appeal because his accusers are certifiable nut cases.

 

Patent nonsense. The only thing confusing with a scintilla of knowledge about real estate evaluation things this idiot judge has a leg to stand on.

 

What is "reliable" quantification? Any estimate on the value of a hugely complex property and business such as 40 Wall Street and Maralago is going to vary wildly. Look at something as simple as the housing markets. My house is valued at double what it was 4 or 5 years ago.

The POINT is that the bank knew Trump, wanted his business, and accepted the collateral for the loan THAT WAS PAID BACK.

If Trump went to the bank again, with the same properties, with the same claimed value he put on it before THE BANK WOULD GIVE HIM ANOTHER LOAN.

What business does the state have to step in between something two parties have agreed on AFTER the deal is completed to BOTH PARTIES SATISFACTION?

None.

Oh no it's not a conspiracy that the government created a "russian collusion", two impeachment attempts, and multiple simultaneous state level prosecutions in an election year. It's just a coincidence.