Why is socialism becoming increasingly popular in the United States?

One of them.

I think you are equating good and successful. But, talk about hallow, Satan has been extremely successful and there is NOTHING good about him.

I doubt that. Ask tRaitor tRump what he thinks.

Said the lady that kissed the cow's ass.

 

You were asked to explain how you could possibly call North Korea a successful country. You provided only one justification. It was a strange one. If you have any other justifications, I would love to see it.

You are the one person I have ever seen call them a successful country. You will likely be the only one.

One man's trash is another man's treasure I suppose. You run into all types on here.

 

I believe I was quite explicit in the OP about what I meant by the term "socialism":

Just so we're clear on what I mean by socialism, I am referring to it in the broad sense of the term, which would include :blah blah:

Take your pick. I pointed out two, but there are other forms of socialism, and the term is so broad and malleable it can mean many different things.

I also posted a poll in #3 and a photo of the socialist who ran strong in the 2016 and 2020 Democratik presidential primaries to support my view/contention that socialism has become more popular - on the Left anyway. What I didn't get into was a long dissertation into how Americans, including Americans on the Left, had rejected and resisted socialism for most of this country's history, even though "leveling" and socialism have been a round as long as the Republic and people had toyed with communism since the settlers at Jamestown and Plymouth were forced to do so after they arrived on our shores. Perhaps, it's also worth noting that the workers in American labor unions were amongst those who rejected socialism & communism and refused to let the progs who supported them from co-opting their unions and their agendas. As I recall Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn noted that when he toured the U.S. after his expulsion from the CCCP in the mid-1970s.

As for his "point", the question I posed in the OP didn't concern what socialist policies our government has implemented. It has to do with why socialism is becoming increasingly popular in the United States?

I assumed that the people discussing/debating this topic were informed enough to perform such a meager task. How anyone could be unaware of the massive social welfare programs that we've been running in this country since the 1960s (some even further) is literally unbelievable, as are the masquerades of those who are trying to pretend they don't exist.

And for the record, I'm not against all of the socialist programs we run in this country, and I consider some of them quite necessary. For example, I think our country has an obligation to care for the servicemen and women who are harmed, either physically or psychologically, in the line of duty, so it's entirely appropriate for the government to run a healthcare system that provides short and long term care for those veterans. I also don't have a problem with the programs that help the elderly and the poor but there are limitations to everything and without those limitations people are going to game those programs and eventually they're going to go insolvent and won't be there for the people who need them most.

 

I most certainly did - Post #156.

Why can't you? Either you're terribly uniformed and should dismiss yourself from this discussion/debate or you're foolishly pretending they don't exist. Either way, not very impressive at all.

 

That's not true, I gave three; withstood the test of time; it became a nation in 1945. Resisted invasion and hasn't succumbed to becoming a member of the worlds central bank system. (bet you didn't know that last one)

Not that strange, hard to succeed if you can't endure.

You have to open your eyes and read the whole post if you want to "see"

I thought you were a tRaitor tRump fand?

I'm already NOT.

I didn't say I liked North Korea, in fact I find them, or at least they example, a threat to all I find good in the world; as I have already pointed out.

You certainly are proof of that.

 

"Withstood the test of time" is a separate issue from resisted invasion?

Isnt resisted invasion the explanation for withstanding the test of time?

You are a unique one indeed.

When most people think of the notion of finding a "successful" socialist country, they are referring to a country that anyone would want to emulate.

Not you. As long as they exist for a long time, then they are successful in your mind. I guess you should add the Soviet Union to your list. They too resisted invasion, and stood for a long time.

It is true I had not encountered the avoided the worlds central bank system concept before. So what? Does that make it a country in which Id want to emulate?

Of course not. Your entire premise is silly. Being a citizen of North Korea would be a living hell. Rational people do not call it successful. For that matter, rational people do not call Russia successful either. You will find some rational people that call China successful, but the knowledgable ones look at its GDP per capita and rightfully conclude you don't want to emulate them either.

 

Sounds more like "crony capitalism" to me.

Are you saying that's socialist? Funny, just a moment ago you were pretending we didn't have any socialist policies in this country.

LOL - Trump's power over Leftists never ceases to amaze me....

 

But lets look at this part specifically:
"the socialism that exercises indirect control through government mandates and regulations (essentially fascism, including the stakeholder fascism with its ESG program/index that has become fashionable in some rather lofty circles on the Left "
Which is a meaningless word salad of nonsense serving as an excuse to skewer the "Left" and people you don't like and hope to brand as socialist, not all of which are:

Yep; Bernie is a proclaimed socialist that even IF he were elected couldn't get to first base implementing a socialist economy.

Which, should alleviate any of your fears that These United States could become socialist; it hasn't enough grass root support and never has, and "I" don't think it ever will.

Little, none I can think of.

It's NOT and your own words should allay that notion.

"Social" NOT "socialist"; huge difference, it's really a shame the words are so similar.

No one should pretend they don't exist. We need them to protect the working class from the constant **** ups of Wall Street and Multi-National Bankers.

That's good to know and unique for someone on the right.

... the system like Wall Street and the Bankers did in 2008, where not one of them suffered any consequences, and were even monetarily enriched because of the massive failure of the Stock Market and Banking system.

We can only hope that the people behind our financial disaster are eventually held to account for the ineptitude and larceny.

 

You were not kidding when you linked “ Veterans health Administration”? You believe that American citizens who gave their limbs, who gave their eyes, who blew up in a war zone to defend this country does not deserve government funded health care? American citizen who sacrificed everything for this country and government taking care of their health is “socialism”?

Something really f***UP in conservative world that they think American citizen who sacrificed everything for this country doesn’t deserve healthcare funded by taxpayer.

 

so giving money to farmer is capitalism but taking care Americans who fought for this country is socialism?

You are right, trump’s power to confuse his supporter do amaze me every day.

 

Yes, that's how I see it. A country can last a long time without being invaded; take Sweden for example.

No, they are two entirely different things.

Thanks, but, aren't we all?

Good luck because then there would be none.

Yes, I should have, it didn't come to mind at the time.

IMHO, OUR United States would be much better off if it had.

You said successful, not emulate.

Then that makes YOUR entire premise silly ... doesn't it. <- not a question

Thankfully, I can only imagine.

So, we agree that there are different measures of success. I was talking about being a success as a Nation in our world. Not, any of the esoteric nuances that qualify success.

 

Meh, I have long since proven my point, and I am bored with this conversation.

 

Absolutely not kidding, and that's just one policy/program (one I happen to agree with).

Let's see what I had to say about that earlier, shall we?

I have family buried in Arlington National Cemetery, too.

Government-run interment program?

Those are your words, not mine, so I guess there must be something really f***UP in Lefty world....

 

Why is that off the rails.

 

No, you proved you don’t understand the simple meaning of “success”.

As usual you become bored when your losing.

I agree, you’ve run out of arguments and are cornered with no place to go further.

Good bye.

 

Actually I just listen to what they say. They all speak English.

 

Meh.

Your bogus summation is fooling exactly no one.

 

Where did I say "giving money to farmer (sic) is capitalism"?

Nowhere.

I did say the VA HC system was socialist, though.

You certainly are confused, and again not what I said.

How long have you been a Trumpeteer?

 

VA HC, absolutely socialism, and proudly supported by both Democrats and Republicans.

 

So you like socialism as long as you like them. if you disagree with a program , then that is bad socialism, but if you agree then they are necessary socialism. .

And here I thought you opened this thread to discussion “ socialism is bad”.

 

It's not.

The kook-right extremist fringe has dedicated its existence to defining any bit of common sense or good morality as "socialism".

That is, it's just another BigLie campaign from the right. Authoritarians need enemies to rally their brainwashed followers against. By keeping their followers hysterical, the right keeps them obedient, obedient at a level that makes sheep look like proud independent thinkers.

 

I can't say, because you didn't include a complete quote.

 

Well, lets look at the word with respect to North Korea:
success /sək-sĕs′/
noun

1. The achievement of something desired, planned, or attempted. Check
   
2. The gaining of fame or prosperity. Check

I think they have to be categorized as a success. So, apprently I've fooled ... you!

 

Oh I love Trump. I can’t get enough of Trump.

Only because of trump we get this;

Democrats won 8 consecutive years – 20017,2018,2019,2020,2021,2022,2023 and 2024

Democrats won special election in 2017.
Democrats won Mid-term election in 2018.
Democrats won Governor race in Kentucky NOV 2019
Democrats won Presidential election in 2020.
Democrats won special election in 2021 and won 2 Senate positions in GA.
Democrats won anti-abortion law in KS AUG 2022.
Democrats won Senate and two GOV in mid-term 2022 election. Red wave became oh well.
Democrats won special election in 2023 – In Wisconsin , Liberal judge won state wide election .
Democrats won special election ( Issue 1) in Ohio in 2023
Democrats won Governor race in Kentucky NOV 2023
Democrats won banning abortion in Ohio in NOV 2023
Democrats won entire Virginia legislative branch in NOV 2023.
Democrats won special election in Feb 2024 in NY.

GOP don't understand this. but they can change this only if they dump Trump. but they are too stubborn to understand what is good for them.

 

Not meaningless at all, and I didn't come up with it. The distinction between direct and indirect socialism or socialist control is what historians and economists have used to differentiate between the national socialism that the fascists in Germany and Italy practiced and the more conventional brand of socialism practiced by governments that abolish private property, nationalize industries, etc., to some degree or other.

And if you study the history of stakeholderism/stakeholder fascism is, you'll find its roots in fascist Italy and Germany.

That depends on what kind of Congress he was dealing with. Certainly, he wouldn't be able to fully implement socialism in this country, but he's made it clear he would socialize/nationalize parts of the private sector similar to what Clement Attlee did in the UK after WWII:

So, given a sympathetic Democrat-controlled Congress, he probably could reach first base.

It certainly used to, but Bernie's popularity and some of the polls I've seen have me wondering.

I can immediately think of all the Great Society programs that were implemented in the mid-1960s and are still with us and expanding today.

It has, and it's one of the reasons why I left the Democratic Party many moons ago. The pace appears to have accelerated over the past 15 years, too.

They're socialist, and like I said I don't have a problem with what some of those programs were intended to accomplish through the massive redistribution of income they have involved.

Everyone isn't poor on account of **** ups of Wall Street and Multi-National Bankers, and you know that. Heck, now that we have established a massive welfare state we have countless kids being born into the poverty that those programs were intended to alleviate, and that has helped produce this:

From the wild Irish slums of the 19th century Eastern seaboard, to the riot-torn suburbs of Los Angeles, there is one unmistakable lesson in American history; a community that allows a large number of men to grow up in broken families, dominated by women, never acquiring any stable relationship to male authority, never acquiring any set of rational expectations about the future — that community asks for and gets chaos. Crime, violence, unrest, disorder — most particularly the furious, unrestrained lashing out at the whole social structure — that is not only to be expected; it is very near to inevitable...
-- Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D-NY), 1965

Man, was that prescient, but people have a history of repeating the mistakes of the past, don't they?

I doubt I'm alone on that. I've never met anyone who wants this country to be turned into some Dickensian nightmare, but they're probably out there....

No, that's an entirely different matter involving our two-tiered "justice" system, and deflecting from the need to get a handle on our social welfare programs isn't going to keep those programs from going insolvent and no longer being there for the people who need them the most.

However, it is interesting you brought up the lack of personal accountability and responsibility in this country, and that lies at the heart of most of our country's problems, some of which you don't appear to be willing to talk about. I would submit that it's far better that we have those conversations now than after it's too late.