God created sin - Change my mind

Everyone has an option.

And yes, there aren't Christians who reject Jesus Christ as son of God. . Such people are by definition not Christians. People can call themselves whatever they want, but it doesn't make it so. Its like a white person calling himself black for whatever reason.

 

The true God is is totally different in character and values then what Islam worships. Islam worships a fake god. Doesn't matter if Islam took bits and pieces from Judeo/Christian writings. That doesn't prove their god as the true God. It simply makes a religion.

 

Every good lie has some truth in it, so of course they copied some parts of the OT to make it sound legit.

"Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light."

 

The point is that there is no evidence the preacher was divine, apart from what his disciples wrote.

 

As noted, you provided the initial claim, therefore it is up to you to support that first, and then it would be my responsibility to support any counter to your claim and evidence.

Sure

Not one thing there about the Trinity

True Scotsman fallacy

That limitation would include not being based on the teachings of Paul or any other follower. Paul wasn't even one of the original 12, so why should his teachings be above any of the remaining 11, assuming the exclusion of Judas.

First of all I am a Christian, not an atheist. Naturally you will deny that I am such, but your opinion matters not to my faith. Secondly, I am not telling you what you believe or who you are. I am pointing out that there are other Christians out there who do not believe as you do. You are the one trying to tell others who they are based only on your beliefs.

And you. That's part of my whole point. There are so many denominations and divisions of Christianity out there, and each one claims that they have it exactly right.

Do you want to want to know what the kicker is? It doesn't make a bit of difference whether Jesus was/is a part of God, or not. The only important part is that he was the perfect sinless sacrifice. For that matter, he could have married and had kids and still qualified as sinless. Not claiming he did, only that he could have without sacrificing that sinless status.

 

Ah the standard claim of pretty much most religious. Only my God is the true God.

 

No, I didn't, you did. As I said, feel free to believe whatever you want, No need for further repetitions.

The preacher? You mean Jesus Christ? There is no need to provide any proof to you. It is what Christians believe, and your view in it is irrelevant. You are not required to share their beliefs.

 

Everyone worships a fake god. If they are not a part of the same religion.

But that doesn't change the fact that Judaims, Christianity, and Islam aren't all based on the abraham god coming from the story of creation of adam and eve and the lineages that followed.

Issac is Judaism.
Ishmael is Islam.
Christianity, if a concoction completely different with something about 3 god figures in 1 entity.

 

"Being based on" is much different then "worshiping the same God". Islam uses a piece meal of Judeo/ Christian writings within its religion. . We can agree on that.

But even an atheist who don't believe in a higher power should be able to see the differences between Islamic nations, its rules and values vs Western Nations. The stark difference between these two societies is because the higher power each worships are drastically different in character.

 

Interesting how you avoided all the rest of the post. BUt I understand. If you can't counter it, other than opinion, then ignore it.

But since you seem to be unable to support your side, allow me to provide some towards mine. Islam is acknowledged as Abrahamic by at least the Catholic Church.

Or is it your claim now that the Catholic Church isn't actually Christian?

 

You are conflating countries with religions. Look at how different Christians countries were are war with each other just over the differences in their denominations in the past. Even within a single country, we saw the actual fighting between Catholics and Protestants. So if even two denominations of the same religion believe in the same God, there is no reason to assume that two religions aren't worshiping the same God, despite being at conflict with each other in certain countries.

 

Belief systems provide the foundation for a society's back bone of laws, and the values held by the majority population . Countries built on the values of atheism tend to not be beneficial. But even those countries have Atheism as their foundation. Even the French Revolution leaders figured out the importance of worshiping a higher power and tried to concoct the cult of worshiping a supreme being to replace the the cult of reason--- working to make their society more productive and less chaotic and murderous. But thinking up a fake god to do the trick didn't work for them.

 

You completely missed the point. We have, as part of our history, actual wars between the Catholics and Protestants of not only Ireland, but also of France. Entire countries went to war over being Lutheran or Catholic. So the supposed religion of peace wasn't too peaceful is some countries. And there are places where all the religions, or at least most, get along and just let people be. So is it the religion or the countries that are the problem. I would say the country is more to blame than the religion. The mid east Muslims are more disposed towards violence than the ones here in the Americas.

 

Conflicts between denominations or between powers that hold the same values but differences in opinion or thirst for power has nothing to do with the conversation. Israel and Judea had plenty of conflicts back in the BC days and they worshipped the same God. As did the protestants and Catholics. Different Islam sects are in conflict. I'm not saying humans are peaceful.

And if we had thriving nations that were founded and grounded in the principals of Atheism, there would be conflicts between atheist nation as well. But they don't thrive so you don't see it.

If the US became majority Muslim...US society would become like a typical Muslim society...Afghanistan, Pakistan. Free will and freedoms in general are considered "against god" in those societies. The constitution would not be in existence or adhered to. Our laws would instead be based on sharia law.

 

Okay you believe the Judeo-Christian God created sin, but it does not define sin, because all the various sects under that god vary in what is sin to some degree so what that god really defines as sin is a myth. It seems its followers actually created sin, in God's name, for their immediate needs of control, which changes over time and is not always just.

 

This is why I made the distinction of what God says is sin and not what man says is sin, and specifically avoided naming any given supposed sin. Further it does define sin, in that sin is something that goes against God's rules, but that definition is not automatically applying the label of sin to any given action, given that man has indeed invented his own rules under the claim, and even honest belief, that they are God's rules. The fact that man makes rules claiming them to be God's, doesn't mean that God doesn't make rules. Think of it along the lines of where some cops will claim that the law gives them the authority to do something like search your car, or a claim of what is legitimate probable cause. Just because they made it up doesn't mean that there isn't a law defining legitimate probable cause.

 

The rules "God" makes are unknowable and therefore mythological.

 

So you don't know what the god of abraham is?
Beliefs are personal.
Do the 1000s of christian religions believe in a different Jesus and god?
Is there more than 1 Jesus in spite of differing views of what Jesus wants? Or what his god wants?
Nope, it's the same Jesus. Same god. Different beliefs about the same entitites.

 

There is no proof. Whatever Christians believe is purely belief preached by believers. My view is not irrelevant if I am right. The writings like the nativity stories which claim Jesus was divine are disprovable by studying them against the time they were written.

 

I don't know what you mean, regarding 1000 Christian religions believing in a different Jesus and God. If a Christian fits the definition of being a Christian.....a person believing in Jesus as God's son who died for us, and accepting his gift of Salvation then it doesn't matter if they are Catholic or Protestant. Or Lutheran. Or nondenominational. We are worshiping the same God.

 

There is no need to prove anything to you. Christians believe what they believe with to without your agreement.

 

Keep that in mind when you try to tell nontrinitarian Christians that they are not Christians.

 

Of course they do. Problem is that they don't actually know what they are believing in. How do you tell them they are believing in a Jewish preacher - nothing more if you study the Bible against its backgound.

 

Jehovans? Mormons? Sure. I'll keep it in mind. They are as free to call themselves Christians, as men are free to call themselves women.

Cool beans. Have a nice day

 

They don't believe in a different Jesus or god. That was the point.
Same Jesus, same god. Different beliefs on how to worship, believe in some eternal bliss, how to achieve said eternal bliss, how to treat people(sinners), etc.

You claim Muslim worship a different god of abraham because they don't believe like Judaism or Christans do. Even Judaism and Christians believe differently about the same god.

The god of Abraham is the god for all 3 of those religion.
Each has different beliefs of said god. But it is same god.

Now do you get it?