God created sin - Change my mind

Close your eyes and rub them or massage them.
You will see the light.

 

You are wrong. Your belief, where ever you formed it from is wrong.

...
Allah, the one and only God in Islam.

Etymologically, the name Allah is probably a contraction of the Arabic al-Ilāh, “the God.” The name’s origin can be traced to the earliest Semitic writings in which the word for god was il, el, or eloah, the latter two used in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament). Allah is the standard Arabic word for God and is used by Arabic-speaking Christians and Jews as well as by Muslims.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Allah

 

How do you figure?

No, Muslims worship their own 'god'.

Whatever makes you happy

 

Based on your claim that Muslims don't follow the god of abraham. For I've shown you that they do.

No, they worship the god of abraham. Allah. As I showed you.

Whatever makes you happy. Even if you can't prove your claim.
What makes me happy is proving what I claim, as I did with the Britanica link.

And there's hundreds of other sites that will also show, Judaism, christianity, and islam all share the god of abraham.

Do you even know the story of Issac and Ishmael?
If you did, you'd better understand.

 

exactly, all three religions are claiming the same God is the one and only

can't be a part two of the Jewish Religion and claim they are not the same God, they both have the Jewish Religion as their base Religion, Part 1 of their story

this God goes by many names, even the name "Jealous"

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+34:14&version=KJV
"
Exodus 34:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
"

 

They worship a false god, and you have not shown anything to prove otherwise.

We are 'infidels' in their eyes for the very reason that they do not believe we worship the same god, and they are 100% correct in saying it.

They make no such claim. Exodus 34:14 literally forbids believers to worship other gods, like the satanic one which Muslims worship.

 

I disagree.

We - human beings - decide what it is sin and choose whether or not to sin. These are all decisions we make, and we are personally responsible for those decisions in specific and our own agency in general.

To belabor the point, I will state that free will is no more to blame (or credit) than God is.

I doubt that will change your mind any more than your argument has changed mine, nevertheless I thought I would share it with you.

 

You are the only one to believe I haven't shown you that muslims worship the god of abraham.
Even the name Allah is a derivative of the names El, Elohim, etc. It is the arabaic name of the Hebrew names given to the god of abraham.
All of that was shown to you in the Britanica link provided. Did you even bother to read?

Yet, Christians worship a different god. They place Jesus, a man, above god as the only way to receive some eternal bliss.

The only true god of abraham religion would be Judaism. As they are gods chosen people. At least the god of abraham chosen people.

But what each religion believes in their own religion doesn't take away from the fact that the abraham god is the source of all 3 religions.

Everyone but those that hate muslims knows this. Why do you not know all 3 follow the god of abraham? Each of the 3 just interpret what they want to believe differently.

Have you ever heard of the person name Ishmael?

 

If you want to go with that logic, then so do the Christians. Just look at the differences between the Jewish God and the Christain God.

OT God: Thou shall not kill. Oh but you sacrifice your first born son to me (don't worry it's just a test). You guys, attack that city and kill everything in it, including women and children and animals who are not attacking you. Commit a sin? Stoning!

NT God: Love each other, and do good deeds. Even the non Jews will be saved. You no longer have to kill animals to be forgiven, just follow my boy!

Yeah, if anything, Muslims do indeed follow the same God of the Jews/Abraham, and it's the Christians who are following a different God.

 

Whatever makes you happy. Jews disagree, Christians disagree, Muslims call Jews and Christians "infidels", but as long as you say it is so, then it is so in your world.

 

This applies to you as well. Plenty of Jews and Christians agree that Islam is an Abrahamic religion, worshiping the same God, as well as plenty who disagree. The two groups are not as unified on the belief as you are painting them to be.

 

Apart from the fact there is no god/s, Christians follow the god Jesus worshipped - Jahweh. Yahweh was a son of the god El in Els Pantheon.
From the time of their first known existence in the 13 century BCE Israel were never monotheistic as you can see by reading the Tanakh. There were never 12 tribes of Israel. The northern kingdom was made up of indigenous tribes who worshipped El at Shiloh. When these tribes were conquered the tribe of Israel invited the Northerners to worship at Jerusalem. This surely shows that the distinction between El and Jahweh was not yet defined. It was in the Babylonian exile that the leaders,like Ezekiel turned Israel to Jahweh and became Monotheistic, the new kingdom becoming a theocracy. The Priesthood ruled even though there were kings. This can be seen more clearly in the time of the Hasmonean Kingdom when prominent priest vied with each other for the High Priesthood. Kings/Queens had little say in the matter. The downfall of the Kingdom was mainly due to two brothers literally leading armies against each other. Roman stepped in and the Kingdom 'belonged' to Rome. From that time forth the High Priest was appointed by whatever Governor/King/leader ruled. Basically it was the priest who pleased the ruler who got the 'job'.

Gods were the invention of men to explain the world before science came along. The idea of a supernatural being creating a still chaotic universe 13 bn years ago, and then creating a special creature called man, placing him on a chaotic world where earthquakes, floods, volcanoes, tsunamies, moving continents colliding causes the death of hundreds each year is beyond me. I'll remain an atheist.

 

I think your "plenty" would be around 1%. Why is it important for you to think Muslims worship Jesus and Christians worship Muslim god who calls them infidels?

 

I doubt that. But you are welcomed to show me the figures that say otherwise.

Strawman fallacy. I have never made any claim that Muslims worship Jesus. If you can't make your point without changing my words, then you have no real point.

I'm willing to be that you are also somehow thinking that simply because they all believe in the same deity, that they are supposed to view that deity the same way. I already showed how Judaism and Christianity do not view the same deity the same way. Further, Judaism and Islam are closer related in their beliefs when compared to Christianity. The beliefs of incarnation, Trinity, and the resurrection of Jesus are not beliefs followed by the other two. Then again, the Trinity isn't universally accepted among Christians to begin with. And of course, you could pick out all kinds of things that any two of the religions hold to be true that the third one doesn't, in any combination. But in the end, all three are monotheistic religions that hold that God reveled Himself to the patriarch Abraham, from which their religion, and for at least two, the core people, descended from. They all hold that same God to be the creator of all and the source of morality. And they all three interpret all of that differently. For all that they do things differently, they are of the same source. It's not really any different than looking at the US and Australia. Both came from the same source as modern day UK, but they all three do things almost completely differently, despite the same origins. You position is, to use the parallel, claiming that Australia didn't really come from England.

But let's turn the question back on you; Why is it important to you to think that Muslims worship a different God than Jews and/or Christians?

 

Judaism and Islam are closer because Mohammed perverted the Tanakh for his own purpose. He also claimed that the world was created Islamic by Allah.

 

No more ridiculous than say claiming that two people populated the earth without incest or other people being created. Religions make a lot of claims. That doesn't change who they are making the claims of. I have pointed out that all of the big three are pretty much describing different God's by their descriptions, and yet say they are all the same God. If the Muslim God is not the same as the Jewish God, then neither is the Christian God.

 

Its your claim that "many" believe such nonsense, so its for you to prove

You didn't know Jesus is Christian God? The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.

Because Islam god is a satanic perversion of a "god". Would you like to answer the question.

 

I don't think the 'religions' would say they are the same god. I don't believe that a Jew would say that Jahweh was the some as Allah and vice versa. Christianity is different in that it doesn't know the god it is serving. Jesus worhipped the Jewish god Jahweh. According to the scripture he claimed to be the Son of God and is so worshipped with the Father. But Jahweh is traced back to his father El in the Ugarit Pantheon. So do Christians worship Jesus, Jahweh and finally El - or ?
As an athiest I once rang atheist HQ to ask about this. Unfortunately I got no reply.

 

Yours was the initial claim that the vast majority do not believe it. Yours is the responsibility to support it.

Not a universally accepted position among Christians.

No doubt your answer to that is that they are not real or true Christians, which again makes use of the True Scotsman fallacy.

The Islamic God is a lot closer in nature to the Jewish God than to the Christian God.

When you ask a question that doesn't strawman what I previously wrote, then I can answer it.

 

I would need to see some support on this. From what I can tell, El is a generic word for deity or god, and predates the name YHWH. There is also the name El Shaddai, which is also supposedly a name of God, the original one revealed to Abraham. Allah is an Arabic derivative of Elohim, which again, was another name of he Jewish God.

I will grant that the way each religion treats/describes their God, it's like there are three different Gods. But essentially what each religion is saying is, "Yeah that's the God we worship as well, but you are all wrong about Him."

 

I'm not the one claiming Christians worship muslim god.

Yes, it is. If you reject it, then you are not Christian

 

That's not what you were asked to support. Obviously all you can offer are strawman arguments.

Called it! So yeah, True Scotsman and strawman fallacies are all you have.

 

Yes, because I asked YOU to support YOUR claim, which you are unable to do.

How about you look up a definition of Christian, and learn what we are talking about. Anyone who denies Jesus is God, - part of the trinity is NOT a Christian. Period.

Christianity is a religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, not the teachings of the local scientology leader, Joseph Smith, Mohammed, or some other cult leader who believe in other things.

Its absurd atheist always insist on telling Christians what they believe and who they are.

Feel free to believe whatever you want.

 

There is a saying out there that

"A film devoid of conflict is boring"...... well.......

there is a lot of truth in that and even Nietzche wrote about how it seemed that both God as well as the angels and even the devils seem to be "striving against boredom???"


I have the funny feeling that a significant percentage of the HOLLYWOOD FILM INDUSTRY is about to be ripped away from Los Angeles and taken to

the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area......

especially if MCCALLION MANIA hits in Toronto.......

IN ORDER FOR HUMANS AND ANGELS AND OTHER LIFE FORMS TO "STRIVE AGAINST BOREDOM" THE possibility of sin and error and freedom of choice ..... even to make bad choices.... had to be allowed........

"Would Mr. Peter McCallion have the POLITICAL AND ARTISTIC COURAGE to allow actress and near death experiencer Ms. Sharon Stone to take on the role of Mayor Hazel McCallion..... during various time periods of Hazel's Life... as a near death experiencer herself???????????? This could be thought of a semi-reality science fiction...... or even Applied Multiverse Theory????

I believe that he would!!!!!!!!"


http://www.politicalforum.com/index...native-universe.610709/page-2#post-1074772836

 

The doctrine of the Trinity was agreed at Nicea where around a 3rd of the Bishops invited turned up. A third of the early church bishops decided on the Trinity doctrine under the watchful gaze of Constantine. Not exactly a majority of church leaders.

Christianity is built on the supposed teachings of Jesus. Jesus certainly existed - but not as The Son of God but as a simple Jewish preacher. Most of his teachings were from the Tanakh but emphasised mercy rather than justice. His parables were mainly related to Jewish belief that they were sons of god and the Tanakh show their relationship as sons and servants of God. Most parables are related to this relationship. The Good Shepherd,(Jahweh) the vine (Israel) etc. The Gospel writers whoever they were interpolated their own ideas of what they wanted Jesus to be. Therefore we have miracles and people rising from their graves when Jesus dies. An empty tomb. A risen Jesus.
Luke and Matthew seek to make Jesus divine in their Nativity stories which are easily disposed of with study of the OT, the customs and laws of the time - and the fact they contradict each other. Different trial and Crucifixion stories.

This atheist - once Christian preacher - has a good idea what Christians believe.

Jesus was a Jewish child who, from the age of 5 through to 13, was schooled in the Tahakh, usually by a teacher - later called Rabbis. He was an intelligent learned youth and as such, when tested at the age of 13 in the Temple impressed those around. Such a child would then be offered further teaching by a teacher in his local school (synagogue). This would eventually lead - for the right pupil - to becoming a teacher himself. Remember Jesus was often called teacher, or Rabbi in gospels written after the introduction of the title.
His father had a business in Nazareth, so Jesus could easily be born in Bethlehem in Zebulon, just about 5 miles from Nazareth and Joseph moved to Nazareth.