$600 a week in unemployment benefits. This can't continue like this.

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by wgabrie, Jul 29, 2020.

  1. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    I talked to a businessman today, and he said that he couldn't get his workers to come in to work. They are staying home because they are getting $600 a week in unemployment benefits. This can't continue like this. He is severely understaffed.
     
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  2. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Let's see ... $600 a week is $30,000 a year. The Minimum Wage in the US is around $15K - so they are far, far better-off than those "working" for the MW.

    There's another advantage of that $30K and that is the maintenance that it gives to GDP providing it is spent. Let's presume that most of those enjoying the free-ride were earning before the Average American Annual Wage, which is $31K - not all that different.

    So, in fact, those who earned above the average wage are, yes, hurting from the Covid-19 economic freak-out. But, the US started late in the process - because Donald Dork was afraid of reduced attendance at his hotels - so he pooh-poohed Covid. Aside from being stoopid, his lack of quick-action simply worsened the same economic calamity in the US that Covid-19 had produced around the world.

    Which America is living through at a more vicious rate than has the European Union (the only really comparable economic entity to the US). What's America to do?

    Accept the inevitability of Covid-19 as have all other countries. And wake up to the fact that it is being led by the man who LOST the popular-vote for the presidency. And should MOST CERTAINLY not get to repeat his pathetic handling of the American economy ...
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
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  3. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Employers were warned that paying employees $10 - 12 an hour wasn't a living wage. I can't blame people for
    wanting to make more money by sitting at home. No commuting costs and less chance of getting Covid. Many of these
    low paid employees don't have insurance ... they get Covid and they could up with $50,000 in medical bills.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
  4. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    So your evidence is one single person? Do you have a nation-wide study that shows a labor shortage? We should be basing unemployment on worker's previous salary, not a solid single number. It also should of course be less than their previous salary. But we need unemployment benefits to prevent a reduction in economic spending.
     
  5. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    FOR AMERICANS TO LIVE BETTER

    When Americans decide finally they've had enough of slave-wages, then maybe - just maybe - hourly rates will change.

    The national average today (from here) is a piddling 31K$ a year. Or, 15$/hour. The actual average for those by income-category looks like this here: Percentage distribution of household income. Note that fully a quarter of Americans are earning below $35K per year. And why are those two numbers so close to one another?

    Because the bulk of the population are earning damn poor wages!

    And that can only be fixed by two means:
    *Instituting a Minimum Wage throughout the country that is at or around $15/hour. Yes, the cost of all services and manufactured goods that once depended upon very low wages are going to rise. And unless Uncle Sam institutes higher import-duties, the country will be swamped by cheaper Chinese-goods.
    *But also we must make an effort to upgrade our workforce to a higher levels in the services industries. Where there is little of no external competition.

    For Americans to live better, they need to be better educated* thus allowing them to enter easily the Services-industries job-market ...

    *Meaning also that post-secondary schooling must free, gratis and for nothing ....
     
  6. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Perhaps he ought to give his employees a competitive wage increase. That usually works in most situations.
     
  7. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    I don't have one (a nationwide study). But, the Republicans in Congress sure seem to have the opinion that unemployed workers are getting spoiled on $600 a week benefits. Anyway, I'd much rather talk to the people on the ground for uncovering inconvenient truths.
     
  8. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    THE CHANGE OF AGES

    No, it is far more difficult than the above.

    There is (or has been) a fundamental Change of Ages since the 1990s. The US is leaving the Industrial Age and entering the Information Age. Barely 12% of the American workforce is located in "industries".

    What does this evolution indicate? It means wakey-wakey to students who must go easily from a secondary to post-secondary degree. And that means furthermore that the cost of education at state-schools must be constrained and sustained by both state and Federal Governments. Depending upon family-income post-secondary tuition must be as inexpensive as humanly possible to permit children to enter a post-secondary degree educational program.

    Instead of Federal monies being wasted on the DoD! See here the distribution of Federal Discretionary Spending today...

     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
  9. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    What an interesting idea. Where do you come up with this stuff? Have you considered contacting your representative?
     
  10. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    I don't know how we're going to continue to afford stimulus, again and again, if we are going to lock-down for months without a cure.

    This could crash the system and bankrupt America. I know some people would cheer, but I don't want that to happen.
     
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  11. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Oh, right aren't you from France? Never mind.
     
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  12. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    MOANING IN A FORUM

    No, none of the above will happen. Uncle Sam is going through a Bad Patch at the moment, but only because its PotUS paid no attention whatsoever to what Covid-19 did to Europe. This guy is in his own mental vacuum.

    The economic question is ALWAYS a simple/difficult matter of Supply&Demand. And the Demand always comes first. Consumption must spark the supply of goods/services, which in turn enhances employment, which increases national demand. The extent of how much is rarely foreknown with any exactitude. But, the "mechanism" is not magic and it has worked in the past so it will work in the present and the future.

    The only question remaining is "when?" And any economist who knew "when" the above happens would be a magician. But one economic aspect is clear, when depends upon American consumers as a whole and their penchant to spend.

    Wanna see a good example of American consumption? Look in the mirror! Go buy something! Anything! Because it is far more effective than moaning in a forum ... !
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
  13. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, none of the above will happen. Uncle Sam is going through a Bad Patch at the moment, but only because its PotUS paid no attention whatsoever to what Covid-19 did to Europe. This guy is in his own mental vacuum.

    The economic question is ALWAYS a simple/difficult question of Supply&Demand. And the Demand comes first. Consumption must spark the supply of goods/services, which in turn enhances employment, which increases national demand. The extent of how much is rarely foreknown with any exactitude. But, the "mechanism" is not magic and it has worked in the past so it will work in the present.

    So, the question remaining is "when?" And any economist who knew "when" the above happens would be a magician. But one economic aspect is clear, when depends upon American consumers as a whole.

    Wanna see a good example of American consumption? Look in the mirror! Go buy something! Anything ... !

    PS: And your mind bending one-liners add NOTHING to the "debate". This is a debate-forum. Go bitch-'n-moan on a blog somewhere. Anywhere!
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
  14. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree the US government approach to this, with the flat-rate unemployment benefit was a mistake but I also see this as symbolic of deeper problems.

    The reason this was done via unemployment benefits rather than indirect support to businesses to continue to pay employees is because of the general attitude in business of treating employees as just another resource. The response of businesses when the sudden difficulties of the lock-down hit was to immediately sack their staff, leaving it to the state to support them. In that context, it shouldn't be a surprise that those employees aren't eagerly rushing back the moment the businesses whistle for them, even beyond the raw economic aspect.

    This is a worldwide issue but does seem to be especially stark in the US system and society.
     
  15. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I live in France and teach economics. I vote in the US.

    Btw, the European Union has been established with both very low-cost National Healthcare Services AND I send my kids to university for about $1500 a year. A year!

    The problem with America today is that somebody told Americans it was the Greatest Nation on Earth. In many, many ways it IS a better nation than most. But when it comes to either National Healthcare or Post-secondary Education it is in a far distant past. (For instance, healthcare. Lifespan in Europe is four years longer than in the US because in Europe national healthcare is low-cost and readily available.)

    And why? Because of its political makeup. Europe after the war decided to embark upon a Social-Democracy. The US carried on with its "normal" market-economy which works well in any large population country. Europe, otoh, took a turn to Social Democracy because it assures key components - namely very low cost National Healthcare and free or nearly free Post-secondary Schooling (apprenticing, associate, bachelor's, master's, and doctoral degrees) - whilst maintaining the central component of a market-economy based upon capitalism.

    Capitalism is NOT an ideology. It is a mechanism of exchange that replaced "barter" with the use of money to pay for goods/services. Which is why both Capitalism and Social Democracy can get along just fine.

    With the sole exception of the Income Disparity, which is a socioeconomic outcome from the fact that insufficient upper-income taxation allows far too much wealth to accumulate amongst a comparatively small population of the economy.

    And since a picture is worth a thousand words, see this:
    [​IMG]




     
  16. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From here: Ballotpedia - Net worth of United States Senators and Representatives

    Do you think the median net-worth has diminished since 10 years. I don't.

    Rather the opposite ... !
     
  17. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  18. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS

    That's why we have unions. Or, rather, why we once had unions. See here:
    [​IMG]

    Also:
    [​IMG]
     
  19. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I really wish I could laid off...
     
  20. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The unions in France are not necessarily "strong" but they are seen and heard. The unions in Germany, otoh, sit on the Board of Directors. My point: European countries have a long history of unionization and, yet, the unions still exist.

    If in the US if they are forgotten that is the fault of who?

    Let's all look in the mirror and answer that question ... !
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
  21. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And you believed him ... ?
     
  22. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes. He had to shutter half his business.
     
  23. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The industry I am associated with is having the same issues. Yes, the entire industry. Hundreds of employers.
     
  24. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    Then he should think about giving hem raises.
     
  25. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    What industry is that?
     

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