Abortion is NOT a woman's right

Don't forget Cortez! I haven't.

 

I am both Pro-Choice and Pro-Life.

I abhor abortion but I also know that abortion must and will always be legal....and as well I know that only 1.4% of all abortions are done before 22 weeks.

I also understand that prior to the 1st or 2nd week of the third trimester a Fetus does not yet obtain even the BEGINNINGS of sentience....and we are capable of knowing this with 100% certainty with new Fetal Brain Scans as the moment a Fetal Brain does obtain the BEGINNINGS of sentience the scan will show the the area of the brain where higher brain function occurs as this area lights up like a Christmas Tree at this point.

Even still...at this point....26 to 28 weeks into pregnancy....when higher brain functions occur in a Fetal Brain....this is only the BEGINNINGS of sentience as this is NOT the point when a Fetus becomes sentient and as well it has been determined full sentience does not even occur until after birth.

Still...I personally would have moral issues that would allow me to state I would support the creation of a law where in cases where their exists ZERO POSSIBILITY of Health issues either to the Mother or Fetus and this would be in cases where the mothers pregnancy was not caused by Rape or Incest....and the Mother is deemed Mentally, Physically and Psychologically sound and capable of giving birth....this determination would be done by both a Medical Doctor and Psychiatrist.....then I would support a law not allowing an Abortion after by Fetal Brain Scan along with all other considerations and conditions....it has been determined both Mother and Fetus to be viable.

At the same time before such a law is created I would make certain another Law is passed that allows and requires ALL PHARMACIES, HOSPITAL EMERGENCY ROOMS AND CLINICS to have and disseminate Plan B and Morning After Pills to ANY AND ALL FEMALES asking for these drugs 24/7 365 days a year and if necessary out of a Machine like when one buy's a coffee except this Machine would have by video interactive communication a person on the other end who would explain how and when to use such drugs....but AGE would not be any obstacle for the female in need of such drugs.

These drugs prevent a Fertilized Egg from implanting itself in the uterine wall and are extremely important to lower the number of abortions almost to zero.

But THERE WILL ALWAYS....be a need for abortion as when needed to save the life of the Mother or to prevent the horror of still birth or prevent the continued development of a non-viable fetus.

AboveAlpha

 

this is called "lets ignore the two posters conversation and discredit the entire discussion between the two posters and call it heading off topic for inane reasons , because the reasoning is bafflegab put out by someone so obtuse that they just want to argue "off topic"

jumping in and arguing that one post is a red herring is another jab in the dark corner of ignoring the posters posts in the thread…i have made it quite clear i do not think a woman has the right to kill the unborn child in her womb…a womb given to her by nature in order to use if it gets impregnated …...the fact she is a woman..and decides to kill off that which she was put on the planet to do…is no exude due to the inconvenience and the absurd horror show exude that it will ruin her body…i say to you unless you are dead knock out beautiful and can make millions from that beauty or at the very least have men look at you sexually…than the ruin body advent into the discussion is moot.



you have no sense of forum etiquette either ..this post shows a blatant need of yours to oppress when the truth is in your face…

 

Which version would that be, the "thou shalt not murder" .. hmm .. seems you would have no problem breaking this in circumstances you deem justified, such as executions, war or self-defence, so please do show me anywhere in the 6th commandment where those exceptions are made, while you are at it please show me in the 6th commandment that abortion is even mentioned, in fact show me anywhere in the bible is is specifically mentioned .. or is it more correct that you are forming interpretations based on your bias reasoning.

Funny how you drag out this when you are guilty of not living by it .. hypocritical.

 

and again you misinterpret my comment, please show me where I say that it is your mis-use of the quotes function as the reason for my accusation.

If you would bother to read and comprehend the comment I made, my accusation is based on the fact that by not quoting the full comment it can be misinterpreted.

About as anal as cherry picking items from a comment.

Only by those who wish to create an emotional response. When engaged in a debate it is expected for the people involved to use the correct terminology, anything other than that is just hyperbole, and/or dishonest, are you dishonest?

So please do show me where I say any of the above, instead of trying to put words in my mouth perhaps you would be better served disputing the actually arguments and evidence offered .. it is standard practice in a debate. If you believe that upon conception there is a person then provide your evidence to support your assertion.

Shara law is not the topic of discussion here, or are you trying to take the topic off subject?

what Shara law or abortion, if you are talking about Shara law then again that is not the topic, if you are talking about abortion then what you think is right, moral or ethical may not be the same as others think .. so why should you become the law maker and enforce your opinion onto others?

and you really think this bothers me
The only thing flushed so far is your credence.

 

Actually the poster of the comment you are replying to is spot on with their observation.

If you had any etiquette knowledge of how to conduct yourself in a debate or discussion you would know that cherry picking sections of a post is just not done. If you wish to lower the discussion to the base level of a pissing contest then please find someone else to play your games with.

If you are not off topic, then please explain what Shara law has to do with the debate?

and I responded to this very opinion, which you totally ignored in your follow up post - the same post you cherry picked from.

Everything you have put above is merely your opinion, now do you have anything other than repeating the same thing to substantiate your opinion?

 

i did not respond to all of the post…and thats reason for you going all anal on me..

Oh..so I need to comment on the whole post…the part i team irrelevant and omit is called cherry picking…


thats nit picking on this side of the pond..

hahahahahaha

in order to not appear to be cherry picking….*leaves post intact but refuses to comment, due to the sheer level of absurdity of stance …*

i believe it is your ego now thats talking…those are my words…

i have expressed my views…


you have laws of man to back yours up…you have not given anything original from your mind except quoting constitutional and legal terms…

you know full well why i said those words… they hit home too much for your liking so you go with the off topic tactic….

again…you use western law to bolster your only opinion on the matter…that opinion being the Roe vs Wade supreme court hand out…a political and court ruling on what a person is…i put forth sharia law as a reasoning to your consensus as to how absurd and unoriginal your stance ….and then you demand me to give proof of person….

don;t flatter yourself..it wasn't ment to bother you just show how much you have fallen in my books…with these tactics…like it's a court case with a bunch of really bad lawyers arguing semantics,, when actual life is at stake…and the so called rights of a woman who by nature is to give birth…hell..women are whining to their kids that they ruined their bodies over giving life to them….Blaggards!!!! total Blaggards!!!

speaking of credence….


ok so no cherry picking..all your ego intact now…no harm done failing to quote function every piece of tactical debate….

 

Yo Stugatzi !brace yourself for a huge cherry picking…

hahahahahaha

it may be opinion..I'll admit that..but it isn't some little man syndrome using governmental laws to hide behind..
uuuu murder….it's a legal term….uuuuu *Flashes Roe vs Wade script*….. hahahahaha….little men always side with the big suits…and feel like Little Jack Horner



life is at stake…human life….

go rest easy with your laws and suits…

bah humbug….your all humbug…tossing fetuses like a tinker's convention…..

shame on you….and how dare you use the band Fugazi as a moniker with those ideals you post!!!

shame…shame shame...

 

A woman is more than a womb with legs. She also has a brain to decide for herself what she was put on the planet to do.

I said pregnancy permanently damages a woman's body, not that it "ruins" her body. I wasn't talking about cosmetic appearance, but structural damage--the stretching and ripping of skin, muscles, and other tissues. Did you know perineal tearing is common during childbirth, and can include a tear from the vagina to and including the anal sphincter? Urinary and/or fecal incontinence may result, and one in ten women eventually require major surgery for repair. Childbirth is especially dangerous for younger teenagers:

"Just because a girl can get pregnant, though, doesn't mean she can safely deliver a baby. The pelvis does not fully widen until the late teens, meaning that young girls may not be able to push the baby through the birth canal.

The results are horrific, said Wall and Thomas, who have both worked in Africa treating women in the aftermath of such labors. Girls may labor for days; many die. Their babies often don't survive labor either.

The women and girls who do survive often develop fistulas, which are holes between the vaginal wall and the rectum or bladder. When the baby's head pushes down and gets stuck, it can cut portions of the mother's soft tissue between its skull and her pelvic bones. As a result, the tissue dies, and a hole forms. Feces and urine then leak through the hole and out of the vagina."
http://www.livescience.com/19584-10-year-birth.html

 

This is also known as an ad hom. My, my, you're all over the place with fallacies.

If you would care to elaborate what Sharia law has to do with abortion then by all means, please go ahead. But from my point of view it appears that you have nothing and so you must dance around the subject whilst throwing out other totally unrelated subjects on the issue.

Also I would like to point out that your views on women are extremely archaic and outdated. Women are no longer broodmares for men's pleasure. We now have the opportunities (at least in developed countries) to follow our own hopes and dreams over becoming mothers or to choose NOT to have children, or to even choose to WAIT. It's really nice actually. I enjoy these freedoms every day of my life. =)

 

first up my ex-wife had to be cut in order to deliver and i was there and told him to tighten the stitches..it made this cool ridge of scar tissue that enhanced the feel of her vagina during sex…


also there was muscle damage to her tummy and she ended up with this gut flap action…not appealing at all….and yeah stretch marks….i actually get off on stretch marks and cellulite..i find it sexually stimulating .

anyway…my point is this…any women that would even discuss this with her children is trash…pure trash…any women upping the ante and explaining to her kids what she went through for them is even more of a piece of garbage…


and finally telling your kids they are the cause of damage to her body from giving birth to them is just a sign of the woman being totally some low life low classless B*t*h .

probably bites bags as well…or is one of those horrid specimens of women who dole out sex to their husbands like its a reward or something..

usually these women are losers anyway…they are not high end specimens of humanity…and they have need to vent their frustrated nothing life …it's a sign …you tell your kids that they damaged you in birthing…you are garbage…you tell your kids that you have scars from birthing them…your garbage …i would never enter into a relationship with a woman like that…

and they vote and they are proponents of abortion….they are abortion…guaranteed they are ugly…fat…homely …and lousy at sex…

these are all qualities that go hand in hand into abortionist women...

 

You are sexually stimulated by women's scars? I wonder what a psychoanalyst would say about that...

Why are you dwelling on this point? You are the only one who has ever mentioned anything about a woman discussing this with her children. Is it because you enjoy putting women down? An opportunity to call them trash and garbage and lowlife classless (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)es and losers and ugly and fat and bag biters and lousy at sex? I certainly didn't tell my children about my personal birthing experiences, but girls should have the opportunity to know all the facts about the lifelong damage pregnancy causes, nevertheless.

And you are such a prize, too...

 

Then obviously you have little education on how to conduct yourself in a debate, shame really for someone who alludes to being educated.

Perhaps you would be better served presenting your soliloquy to the mirror, and perhaps your would also be better served actually engaging in discussion as to the reasons of the things you deem "irrelevant"

Of course now you go along the usual path of evasion. If you actually had any knowledge of how to conduct yourself in a debate then you would realize how your comment makes you look.

Oh right, even though your own responses - as shown - only give reason to see the real ego at work.

Fine, now how about putting some meat on the bones.

You'd be surprised at what originality my mind can come up with. In this instance there is no need as you have amply displayed your lack of insight and knowledge of the subject.

Yes I do know the reasoning behind it and they are still a straw man - The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position.

But just to indulge your idle fantasy. Shara law is the law of the lands where it is, if the people of that land wish to live that way then so be it, as far as being right and moral .. well that really depends on your version of what is moral, of course to a Jeudo-Christian it would seem immoral, to a follower of the Islamic faith not so much. You seem to be under some illusion that morals are set in stone, woefully incorrect of course, but if that is what you believe that is your choice .. allow others the same curtsey to make their own choices as well.

I am using law because that is the topic of debate, if you wish to move the debate to another subject then please start your thread and I will happily engage in it .. Read the OP - "Abortion is NOT a woman's right", this includes the legality of the rights claimed by the woman and the speculation of the rights of the zef.

and again Roe vs Wade did not even debate the personhood of the zef, you should read it you may learn something.

Falling in your books also means little to me, and as already answered, which you ignored, just because someone has the ability to do something does not mean we have the right to force them to do so, or do you wish to force all people to use whatever abilities they have by law.

Fine, now that you have learned the first lesson of debating perhaps you would like to put forward your premise with the reasoning behind it and also any evidence you have to support it.

 

ok so now it's lets discuss my debate tactics and whats next my grammar…


you have twisted and ignored everything i have said in order to advance your unoriginal epic agenda of abortion is legal routine….adnauseum…
i get it…i understand it….cherry picking is a necessary option in order to ignore your repetition and nothing original in your posts…

you actually did the circle jerk rally the troops deal in here towards me…
and you call me out on my conduct….

wow…not even funny anymore

next!!!!

 

Wow .. that has to be one of the most misogynist comments I've ever seen here, not really surprised though, you let the facade slip a few posts ago and now your just come over as a un-educated troll.

 

I love women and have been covered in them all my life…i have had girlfriends that accuse me of having too many women in my life looking out for me..

you have no idea of what a woman is or needs…


you think you read me as some sort of chauvinistic buffoon ..only from your inexperience…

you have no idea of what women are to me…

and have no idea how many adore me..and know me to be genius in knowing how to please them in every way possible…sexually economically, emotionally, all with humour and fun and adventure…

you really need to stop pigeon holing my genius , due to your complete frustration with women and society as a whole

 

Being dyslexic myself your grammar or lack of it means little to me.

Just the point though isn't it, you haven't actually 'said' anything so far, all you have done is cherry pick and then whine when it is pointed out to you.

If you have something you want to put forward, please do.

I have no control over what others post and your accusation quite frankly is absurd .. perhaps you would be better to look at your own conduct as others have also picked up on it's inane quality instead of casting accusations to try and woefully defend your own mistakes.

 

Narcissistic and egotistical

You accuse me of pigeon holing you and then make the comment highlighted above

 

well i'm dyslexic as well, and only completed grade nine ..i'm self educated from books and various geniuses that surround me in company and help me mature to the being i am..

i have made my points quite clear…all these discussions i have let you have with me should prove that..

this infantile tactic you are using now…cherry picking and saying i have not made my view known….infantile frustration due to the fact you have failed to make any sort of argument on the abortion issue other than hiding behind the newly formed laws of the 20th century…you have taken the humanity out of the picture, of which i have more than duty filled as a being who loves human genius.

my uninformed fellow posters hide behind laws which are from a waring society> America…listen to their national anthem and look towards their constitution of arming the public…


this is why abortion is accepted and legal in the USof A


Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there;
O say does that star-spangled banner yet wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

 

genius gets to pigeon hole not to be pigeon holed…


you have entered into a hostile form of debate…and wish to remain in the dark and support an oppressive Orwellian society…
it's all rather sad really…and you take the name of a punk band….how ludicrous is that..

 

Well as yet I have yet to see even a glimpse of this 'genius' you claim, self praise is no praise as they say.

no it was you that started the hostilities, I merely pointed out your errors.

As already stated my screen name has nothing to do with the punk band, try a little harder .. here is a clue - Marillion.

 

I completed my education with a great deal of help and have been lucky enough to come to know several experts in various fields ranging from the theological to biology.

I started out as a pro-lifer and it was only when I undertook the research from both sides of the argument that I came to realize that anti-abortion laws do not work.

If you have then I have missed them, so for clarity would you care to make your points again.

I'm sorry if you feel that way .. however there is a set procedure when engaging in debates otherwise they end up as slanging matches, that procedure includes, but is not exclusive, as follows.

1. An initial premise is made
2. Evidence to support the premise
3. Conclusion

The debate then revolves around both sides disputing the evidence and premise supplied by presenting their own evidence, that continues until the point where one side reaches the point where their premise no longer has the evidence to support it or both sides agree to disagree.

If you would care to search the forum as a whole you will see that I, and other posters, have made various and numerous arguments that do not have a base is current law, and as to taking the humanity out of the picture, I disagree, my humanity is placed with the woman . .yours on the other hand is with the zef.

While there are ill-informed people from both sides of the debate on this forum you will find that there are also a number of very well informed people here.

Your estimation as to why abortion is accepted in the USA falls woefully short of the various reasons behind it, and whether you agree with it or not the American constitution is the law of the land for them and as such has a very large bearing on the debate.

 

It's totally obscene and disgusting not to mention off-topic and stupid as it seems he's turned this discussion into a pissing contest of how many women he's gotten with.

I added him to ignore and reported him. Not worth my time.

 

I never said that women are broodmares. Why are you putting words into the mouths of pro-lifers?

 

Where did I say that you or anyone else said that? It was a statement.