Abortion Leading Global Cause of Death in 2021 with 43 Million Killed

FoxHastings said: ↑
AGAIN : SO WHAT ? That doesn't give a fetus more rights than BORN humans ....THAT doesn't determine laws or rights....


LOL, so we should throw up our arms, declare women have NO rights that everyone else including fetuses have and we go merrily on our way?

NO.

No, "so what?" is a question clearly indicated by a question mark.....and one you just can't answer...

You don't...you think a question is an argument

And your OPINION is the weakest argument of all....

...and telling women not to have sex, or telling any human not to have sex , is the epitome of silliness and a sign of lack of contact with humans and the real world..



Do you REALLY think women shouldn't have sex because YOU say so ?

HINT: They are ignoring your advice

 

so what?

so again...because you are not getting this fact...it's a unique human life of which the mother purposefully created. And of which the parents are opting out of that responsibility through the act of destroying/murdering that unique life. (and unfortunately that's mostly on the mother because it's her choice to follow through with the abortion)

that action is immoral and shouldn't be either supported or encouraged by our society.

that's "so what"

lol.

That's like...the third or fourth time I've explained the reality of the act of abortion to you and your only recourse is to declare "so what"

So who gives a **** about the mother, so what? What makes her so special that she gets to play god? Merrily going around creating and destroying human beings on a whim because she gets pleasure out of the act.

Sounds like a shitty person with no moral compass.

 

You've defended calling an anti viral a vaccine, which it isn't. You're not flush on credibility these days.

 

I also added : ""That doesn't give a fetus more rights than BORN humans ....THAT doesn't determine laws or rights....


LOL, so we should throw up our arms, declare women have NO rights that everyone else including fetuses have and we go merrily on our way?""

WHICH YOU have FAILED to address

Obviously a woman's life and rights are not important to you.....but they are to others .

Uh, that would be you playing "god" and making rules for humans...

 

So far that fetus hasn't willfully murdered anyone else so the score is

fetus - 1
shitty mother - 0

 

Well IMO nothing gives the fetus FEWER rights either.
Except the laws that allow abortion, on the grounds that you would not intentionally kill a born child.

Let me be clear...I don't have any practical or emotional dog in this fight, and can see the argument that a fetus is /is not human (until around 24 weeks).
However to say that the fetus has FEWER RIGHTS than a born child is weird. The answer to that is the answer as to whether you see the fetus as a human being.
However I am aware that there have not been laws to decide that so technically a fetus has fewer rights. and this is the centre of the conflict of opinion.
The result of that moral issue is your own understanding/opinion of what a fetus is.
and that, you can argue all day.

 

Of which we have and of course we get nowhere. LOL. Kind of over talking about it. I absolutely disagree with her hot take on the subject.

 

TBH I do get a bit rattled when the argument about women's rights is over and around an unborn child who has no say in the matter.

 

FoxHastings said: ↑
""That doesn't give a fetus more rights than BORN humans ....THAT doesn't determine laws or rights....

A fetus has NO rights....not more rights, not fewer rights.

IF you think it has rights state the rights you think it has that do NOT infringe on the rights of the person it is in...

That's a confusing sentence but abortion has nothing to do with BORN children.

NO one has said a human fetus isn't human (adjective) . Of course it is, just like the woman's heart is human....it's part of a human.

It is NOT a human as in A human being ( noun)....not until birth.

No, it isn't.... a born child is not inside of, attached to, dependent on another (using their body ) for nourishment and growth.... a fetus is.
A fetus is part of another human being. A born person is not.

A human fetus is human , it is NOT A human being as in legal person.

It is NOT a moral issue, it's an issue of rights and laws...

And so I do

 

Uh, how would an unborn person have a say in the matter?

Why should anyone have a say in the matter of what a woman does with her body in pregnancy?

 

FoxHastings said: ↑
I also added : ""That doesn't give a fetus more rights than BORN humans ....THAT doesn't determine laws or rights....


LOL, so we should throw up our arms, declare women have NO rights that everyone else including fetuses have and we go merrily on our way?""

WHICH YOU have FAILED to address





Obviously a woman's life and rights are not important to you.....but they are to others .



Uh, that would be you playing "god" and making rules for humans...

Obviously a woman's life and rights are not important to you.....but they are to others .



Uh, that would be you playing "god" and making rules for humans.


Your little insults are hardly an argument

 

I think you have not understood my previous post.
The vitality (or not) of the fetus is debatable.
You seem to be concerned solely with the woman.
Some are also concerned about the fetus.

As I said I have no fixed views because IMO there is no answer until science comes up with one. However there is a debate to be had and both opinions should IMO be honoured. Which one you choose, whether the fetus is alive or not, is YOUR business. Not that of the state and not that of inflexible women's rights campaigners.

 

It's the willfully and purposefully engaging in the one activity that can create a person knowing full well you would kill that person should they get created that I find to be irresponsible and immoral.

 

Well yes and no...there are numerous examples of contraception gone wrong.

 

What do you mean by "vitality" ? Did you mean "viability"? If so, viability is not debatable.

Of course. It's her body, her rights that are being threatened.

The fetus has no rights.

That's fine but their concern cannot, and should not, infringe on the rights of the born.

The law has answered.

Science doesn't determine rights.

Neither I, nor anyone else I've seen, have ever said the fetus isn't alive.

You must get this misinformation from the Anti-Choice side.....try reading the Pro-Choice(Pro-Rights) side...

Correct, the government should have nothing to say about abortion but should protect everyone's rights.

The rights of women should be inflexible....they shoudn't be compromised with wacky ideas based on morals or religion or someone's whims..


Can you not answer these questions?:

Uh, how would an unborn person have a say in the matter?



Why should anyone have a say in the matter of what a woman does with her body in pregnancy?

IF you think it has rights state the rights you think it has that do NOT infringe on the rights of the person it is in...



Or will you just continue to cherry pick ?

 

And no one is obligated to use contraception.

 

Did I say they were?
I replied to the notion that unplanned babies are the product of irresponsible sex.
Sometimes they are, sometimes there are accidents.
How does your post follow that conversation?

 

FoxHastings said: ↑
And no one is obligated to use contraception.

Did I say you said they were? NO.

I added a COMMENT.

I added a COMMENT.


And from your comments I doubt you are as unbiased as you profess to be

 

No I said vitality on purpose. Viability is that it can live independently of the mother.
Vitality is being alive.
The question of whether the fetus has rights is EXACTLY the issue we are discussing. Some think it is alive and therefor has rights. Others think it is not alive so does not have rights. If it is alive, it has all the rights of other live human beings.
You cannot say it is alive and then kill it. That is infanticide. The right to life covers anything that is alive. Obviously. If the government should protect everyone's rights adn the fetus is alive, then the state should protect its rights to. Why do you think a live fetus has fewer rights to life (in fact you clearly say it has no rights) than born children? Is it because you can't see it?
Please don't categorise me and anti or pro choice. I CLEARLY said I have no dog in this fight. I merely lay out the basic arguments for both sides.
NO rights are inflexible. They are ALWAYS relative to other people's rights IF rights conflict.
Last highlighted text...the fundamental right everyone living has is the right to life.
If the fetus is alive, that is an inalienable right.

Now if I may suggest you think logically about the unborn child before you assume the women's rights. BOTH have rights. BOTH have the same right to life IF the fetus is considered to be alive. Right to life is not relative. It is absolute in your constitution and primary law, not in some "religion or moral sense.

and please stop assuming I have some bias in this. I DO have some personal experience but I have NO bias. I am not disagreeing with you so there is no need to be so defensive. I am simply describing the conflict inherent in this issue.
I have now repeated that NO person or arm of the state should have anything to say about a decision to abort. In fact I once posted this somewhere else and you "liked" it. But my REASONS for saying that are NOT the primacy of women. They may be yours but I don't consider that to be the final, unequivocal answer.
I have tried to lay out the moral and physical center of the issue and why there is disagreement. NOT to have some spat with you. You may support women in this issue always but when you do, you have to say the fetus is not alive (until viability when it really IS alive). That is logical and makes sense. But you cannot have it both ways...if it is alive, it has rights to that life already guaranteed in your own constitution. If it is not alive, you can consider it some sort of unnatural growth and get rid of it. (I hesitate to say "kill it because that admits it is alive. You can't kill a dead thing).
Now is that clear enough? These issues are what separate the pro and anti choice supporters. I personally don't care, being my age, and I don't have an answer as to what I think should be that answer. I DO know that conclusions should come from a full consideration of the way you consider a fetus.
And that is all I can offer on the subject.

 

Failed contraception is not an excuse since we all know it's not 100 percent.

If I handed you a gun and told you "don't worry...it doesn't fire 99 percent of the time", you still wouldn't put it to your head and pull the trigger. Because the weight of responsibility and the consequences of your actions should that 1 percent come true would be catastrophic

No woman "woops! I got sperm into my vagina!"

Now understand. I hold men under the same moral compass as women. Don't nut in the vag if you don't want to be a dad. That being said we both know that in the end abortion is all the woman's choice. Even if the man said no...she could and would still have an abortion regardless.

The buck stops with them. They were given a great power by nature of which it should be handled with responsibility because the outcome of being irresponsible means someone dies.

 

If I had to comment, that is one way of looking at it.
I personally just wish it were that simple!! Voluntary chastity during childbearing age isn't IMO quite that cut and dried, but hey...if it works for you...

 

Stop picking a fight.
You wouldn't like it if I took up your provocations.

 

There are plenty if ways to have sex that can't possibly result in the creation of a person that we now need to murder.

If abortion has to be the option, there should be some weight of consequence to that option so that the person in question learns something of value from the action.

Here's a doctor describing abortion;


This should be required watch for all those women opting for an abortion. As they should also be forced to see an ultrasound of the child inside them they are electing to kill.

It's an horrific act people choose due to the excuse of convenience. It's time we grew up.

 

I repeat...accidents do happen.

 

NO one has said the feus isn't alive...and repeating this Anti-Choice mantra shows which side you appear to on.

WHO thinks it's not alive ?????????????????????????????????????????????

AGAIN : IF you think it has rights state the rights you think it has that do NOT infringe on the rights of the person it is in...

It's not an infant.

And, yes, a woman CAN have an abortion.

Then don't eat anything !!!

Can't you see that a fetus is part of a woman's body and a born person isn't??? It's VERY obvious.

Statements like """You cannot say it is alive and then kill it. That is infanticide"""

And claiming someone said a fetus is not alive put you firmly in the Anti-Choice camp.

IF you think a fetus has rights state the rights you think it has that do NOT infringe on the rights of the person it is in...

IF you think a fetus has rights state the rights you think it has that do NOT infringe on the rights of the person it is in...

IF you think a fetus has rights state the rights you think it has that do NOT infringe on the rights of the person it is in...

YUP, and the law says the unborn have no rights ...

LOL, I'm afraid you have a confused idea of what "viability " means....the fetus is not DEAD before viability, just not developed enough to survive outside the woman.

Viability occurs at 23-24 weeks....the fetus is NOT dead before that or it wouldn't have developed !!!!!!!!!

Nope, that's for BORN people.

Are fetuses counted in the census? have an SSN ?

NO ONE SAID IT WASN'T ALIVE....if you persist in this Anti-Choice meme then produce PROOF someone said it wasn't alive ....

Why TF would anyone think that? ( If anything is a "growth" it's alive )

LOL, you are confused....you are correct you can't kill a dead thing so why TF do you insist people say a fetus is dead?????????????

Maybe to you....

And if, as you do, consider a fetus a legal person (dead or alive, that part of your statement is confusing) you are firmly on the Anti-Choicers side.

They also strenuously avoid :

IF you think a fetus has rights state the rights you think it has that do NOT infringe on the rights of the person it is in...