America, so far, is exceptional in that it still exists after nearly 250 years and public attention,

That's extremely interesting. I'd like to learn more. Is it along these lines?

https://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/indentured-servants-in-the-us/

 

Yes along those lines. In 1668, Virginia added the tax to free black women that had been levied on indentured servant women. They called it tithing then I think as opposed to taxing. The indentured servants initially were as likely to be white as black though (actually more so as about 2/3rds of the state came in as indentured servants) so over time it was just easier to enslave blacks because you could look at them and not confuse them with the masters and god fearing people. One of the first slave owners in Virginia was a black man BTW. Anyway, like I said, it is a convoluted journey from Jamestown to slavery. I am not an expert on it. I just know it isn't as straight and simplistic as either side politically paints it.

 

Actually the fantasies are yours. And my challenge to you - to name another nation in existence today with a government that has survived as long as ours has - clearly you are unable to.

We have the good fortune of having a system of government that is a very good fit for us. I'm not sure what you are so pissy about, or why you keep trying to falsely attribute positions to me, but, I'm confident that it's your own issue and no one else's.

 

We fight shoulder to shoulder with our good friend's the Aussies, so, that's not a concern of mine.

I'm not using fallen in any special sense.

 

But the oldest continuous culture is the Australian First Nation people

 

Errrrr- about the majority of monarchies

 

Interesting, tell us more.

Digging around I came across this: "The earliest conclusively human remains found in Australia are dated to around 50,000 years BP. Isolated for millennia by rising seas waters after the last Ice Age." After the last glacial advance, sea levels were 120 meters (394 feet) lower, 19,000 years ago. sometime during that period apparently they became completely isolated.

Map illustrates possible land extent before the glaciers melt started.​

 

What would be an example of one?

 

OK here is eight of them https://www.oldest.org/politics/monarchy/
if you are looking at the oldest constitution- that is Sun Marino https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outline_of_San_Marino
Now look at the whole story around the Magna Carta - that was written over 800 years ago.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/08/countries-are-the-worlds-oldest-democracies

 

You understand that "exceptional" is not synonymous with "perfect", right? Africans were enslaved by other Africans for centuries before the first emigrant stepped on North American soil and went on long after we fought a war to end it here.

Oh, and, from the earliest moments of our founding, doing away with slavery was a goal of most Americans. And even fought a war with over 400,000 casualties to end it.

 

We have some evidence going back further than that
https://www.australiangeographic.co...irms-aboriginal-culture-one-of-earths-oldest/
https://www.nma.gov.au/defining-moments/resources/evidence-of-first-peoples
https://australian.museum/learn/science/human-evolution/the-spread-of-people-to-australia/ but it is still hotly debated
We KNOW they were here before the last ice age
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-15/tour-guide-uncovers-underwater-rock-art/100294428
https://www.uwa.edu.au/news/Article...sites-discovered-underwater-50000-years-later






https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-26/how-rock-art-lasts-thousands-of-years/11274940

 

Which is a bad thing.

 

good things don't come easy.

 

San Marino was occupied by the Nazi's in WWII.

That's a fair point, but, others would argue that it was during the reign of Queen Victoria, during the 1800's that the monarch essentially became a figurehead. But, it's certainly a debatable point. I appreciate your sourced response. I'll take a look at the link you provided.

From your link:

Perhaps it would be better stated that the US is the world's oldest surviving democracy, and one of the longest surviving governments in the world today.

• Sweden- that's a fair point.
• Norway and Denmark fell to the Nazis.
• Spain conquered Morocco in the 1800's.
• Oman was essentially controlled by the British to such an extent that the UN, in the 1960's, told them three times to back off and allow them some autonomy.
• Cambodia was conquered by the French, then the Japanese, then the Communists, then the Vietnamese, then the UN administered while they tried to restore their independence. And they had UN administered elections, set up a government, that fell to a coup in 1997 and the victors of that coup remain in power to this day.
• Japan - the Allies conquered Japan in WWII.

Enjoyed the discussion. Take care, Zorro.

 

The reason I say its a bad thing is that it means that a significant portion of our country went to war to preserve slavery and considering that every other country at that time ended slavery without a war its a black mark on our history.

 

Thing was - even Hough they “fell to the Nazis” they regrouped and went back to what they were

 

Nonsense. Slavery went on world wide long after our Civil War.

 

Which still doesn't negate the fact that its a black mark on our history.

 

Before or during the last ice age?

The interglacial before the current one ended about 112,000 years ago and sea levels were higher than they are today. My guess is that they showed up at some point after that, after the glacial advance took down the sea levels back down, or within the last 100,000 years.

Thoughts?

 

That certainly shows resilience.

 

Already covered that.

 

You shout you own position, making constant exceptions to your own statements.
And I see absolutely no purpose in this thread except to cause trouble. A huge majority of countries have a system of government that is a "good fit" for their own culture. Even China which has done better than very well, and will continue to do so.
I am delighted you boast such glory. Wave so many flags. Sit smug in the knowledge that mère *******s can destroy two landmark buildings in a single strike.
The ROW also considers you exceptional, but for reasons you might not understand. Or like.
And finally, so what? It would be refreshing to discuss your relative "worth" relative to the ROW if only I could find someone who knew anything about the ROW.
And finally, lest you forget, your very existence depends on thousands of years of developing the values you took with you in the 18th century. You didn't suddenly discover them. The ROW had been developing them for hundreds of years.
To choose criteria to prove superiority is suprême dishonest. If I wanted to be as silly I would suggest that after thousands of years of carving out and defending the values and government structures you enjoy today we have had to fight for them against all manner of opposition. So that you can now boast about what you call your own.
The saddest thing is that many Americans have ancestry that also helped develop what you now brag about. Surely some crédit should go to them who lived and died next to those who also share the freedoms they created. But no. As long as you can stand on top of their dead bodies and crow, you are happy.
Finally it is disappointing that all those thousands of years and all those deaths and struggles have produced such shallow self congratulations.
They aren't yours. They belong to us all.

 

Zorro wrote:
"That's a fair point, but, others would argue that it was during the reign of Queen Victoria, during the 1800's that the monarch essentially became a figurehead. But, it's certainly a debatable point. "
Britain became à constitutional monarchy after the reign of Charles II who briefly restored the monarchy after the Civil War.
BTW the monarch still retains some power including the right to dissolve Parliament.
Think about that.

 

Why did Europeans copy one of the most primitive forms of human rights violations and still justifies it by pointing to those who were considered savages as justification?

 

"Iceland and the Isle of Man both have interesting claims to democracy. Each has a parliamentary body that is over 1,000 years old, making them the longest standing democratic institutions in the world. But Iceland only got its independence in 1944 from Denmark — and while it is self-governing, the Isle of Man is not a country."
In fact it is more of à country than you think.
It has à wide range of powers which cut across British control and has not waged war or been invaded for hundreds of years.
It is a self governing Crown dependency.