Another Home Invasion thwarted by gun---held by brave 12 yr old girl

your material is sadly dated...

1 person, 20 years experience with the health care...wow....how does that make you and expert on firearms and sociology in America? And in all that time we can assume only one kid has come across your table in twenty years, but clearly that one case has influenced you entire existence?
How many stabbings have you attended? How many beatings have you patched up? Clearly it is not the weapon, but the mind behind it.
Guns don't kill. Bats do not kill. Knives do not kill. poisons do not kill. Cars do not kill. People kill.
If they want to kill, NOT having a gun will not stop them. Period.
With all of your so called expertise, do you not think this intruder woud have continued on with his spree if he had not been stopped by this young adult?
Maybe he would have stopped and hit his knees after being confronted with his own mortality. Nope, he ran........
Maybe he would have surrendered after being shot? Nope, he ran......
Ergo, he was up to no good and didn't want to stop criminalizing people. His mind is not functioning correctly. More than likely, he heard her in the house and went looking for her. He had a choice, he could have left, but he went after the girl, and she confronted him and prevailed.
Note the the article never said she went on a rampage and killed her neighbors or discharged the piece into her own face.
So you would demonize her for what? She knew proper gun handling? You would take away her survival and turn it into something less. That's real good, good. How much sorrow would you have felt if she had been kidnapped, tortured, raped, possibly dismembered and then the parts scattered so the parents would never knew what happened to her body?
Tell me, what is more pathetic, a bad guy taken out or another murdered child?

 

Is there a point in that ramble - anywhere???

That is one too many confused blathering posts - congrats you just made my DBR list - Don't Bother Reading

Life is too short to spend time trying to make sense of the nonsensical

 

too complex?
I merely stated that you are not a qualified expert due to one incident. The opinion you express is unqualified.
So, since this young adult defended herself, you demonize her by lumping her into your anti-gun bleatings..that's as callous as it gets.
My question was simple, would you have prefered that she should not have defended herself by whatever means available and end up dead?

 

No (*)(*)(*)(*). That is exactly why why your argument is moot.

Correlation =/=causation.

No (*)(*)(*)(*). So countries with more guns have more firearms related deaths? No need to point out the obvious. I bet countries more vehicles have higher vehicle fatality rates as well.

Suicide rates in ages 15-24 (most recent) by country
# 1 New Zealand: 26.7 per 100,000 people
# 2 Finland: 22.8 per 100,000 people
# 3 Switzerland: 17.9 per 100,000 people
= 4 Austria: 15 per 100,000 people
= 4 Canada: 15 per 100,000 people
# 6 Australia: 14.6 per 100,000 people
# 7 United States: 13.7 per 100,000 people
# 8 Belgium: 10.7 per 100,000 people
# 9 France: 10.3 per 100,000 people
# 10 Sweden: 9.4 per 100,000 people
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sui_rat_in_age_15_24-suicide-rates-ages-15-24

Suicide rates in ages 25-34 (most recent) by country
Rank Countries Amount
# 1 Finland: 33 per 100,000 people
# 2 New Zealand: 25.1 per 100,000 people
# 3 France: 21.3 per 100,000 people
# 4 Austria: 20.8 per 100,000 people
# 5 Belgium: 19 per 100,000 people
# 6 Switzerland: 18.8 per 100,000 people
# 7 Australia: 18.7 per 100,000 people
# 8 Canada: 18 per 100,000 people
# 9 Denmark: 16.9 per 100,000 people
# 10 United States: 15.3 per 100,000 people
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sui_rat_in_age_25_34-suicide-rates-ages-25-34

Suicide rates in ages 35-44 (most recent) by country
# 1 Finland: 44 per 100,000 people
# 2 France: 28.5 per 100,000 people
# 3 Austria: 25.2 per 100,000 people
# 4 Denmark: 23.9 per 100,000 people
# 5 Belgium: 23 per 100,000 people
# 6 Switzerland: 21.8 per 100,000 people
# 7 Sweden: 21 per 100,000 people
# 8 Canada: 19.2 per 100,000 people
# 9 Japan: 16.2 per 100,000 people
# 10 Australia: 15.9 per 100,000 people
# 11 Germany: 15.8 per 100,000 people
# 12 United States: 15.3 per 100,000 people
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sui_rat_in_age_35_44-suicide-rates-ages-35-44

Suicide rates in ages 45-54 (most recent) by country
# 1 Finland: 43.4 per 100,000 people
# 2 Denmark: 35.9 per 100,000 people
# 3 Germany: 28.8 per 100,000 people
# 4 France: 28.4 per 100,000 people
# 5 Austria: 27.9 per 100,000 people
# 6 Switzerland: 27.8 per 100,000 people
# 7 Belgium: 24.5 per 100,000 people
# 8 Japan: 23.7 per 100,000 people
# 9 Sweden: 23 per 100,000 people
# 10 Canada: 18.5 per 100,000 people
= 11 New Zealand: 14.7 per 100,000 people
= 11 Australia: 14.7 per 100,000 people
# 13 United States: 14.3 per 100,000 people
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sui_rat_in_age_45_54-suicide-rates-ages-45-54

Suicide rates in ages 55-64 (most recent) by country
# 1 Finland: 43.8 per 100,000 people
# 2 Germany: 32.6 per 100,000 people
# 3 Denmark: 32.1 per 100,000 people
# 4 Austria: 28.9 per 100,000 people
# 5 Switzerland: 27.4 per 100,000 people
# 6 France: 26.8 per 100,000 people
# 7 Japan: 26.7 per 100,000 people
# 8 Belgium: 23.8 per 100,000 people
# 9 Sweden: 20.9 per 100,000 people
# 10 Ireland: 15.7 per 100,000 people
# 11 Canada: 15.1 per 100,000 people
# 12 Australia: 13.7 per 100,000 people
= 13 United States: 13.3 per 100,000 people
= 13 New Zealand: 13.3 per 100,000 people
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sui_rat_in_age_55_64-suicide-rates-ages-55-64

Suicide rates in ages 65-74 (most recent) by country
# 1 Denmark: 43.9 per 100,000 people
# 2 Germany: 34.4 per 100,000 people
# 3 Austria: 33.2 per 100,000 people
# 4 France: 31.2 per 100,000 people
# 5 Switzerland: 30.7 per 100,000 people
# 6 Belgium: 29.7 per 100,000 people
# 7 Finland: 28.1 per 100,000 people
# 8 Japan: 23.7 per 100,000 people
# 9 Sweden: 19.4 per 100,000 people
# 10 New Zealand: 17 per 100,000 people
# 11 United States: 15.3 per 100,000 people
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sui_rat_in_age_65_74-suicide-rates-ages-65-74

Suicide rates in ages above 75 (most recent) by country
# 1 Austria: 57.1 per 100,000 people
# 2 Switzerland: 50.6 per 100,000 people
# 3 France: 48 per 100,000 people
# 4 Denmark: 46.3 per 100,000 people
# 5 Germany: 45.9 per 100,000 people
= 6 Belgium: 42.3 per 100,000 people
= 6 Japan: 42.3 per 100,000 people
# 8 Sweden: 27 per 100,000 people
# 9 Finland: 23.3 per 100,000 people
# 10 United States: 22 per 100,000 people
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sui_rat_in_age_abo_75-suicide-rates-ages-above-75

Your argument is moot.

 

No - you did not read the excerpt correctly I fear

once again you are trying to prove correlation equals causation there are a LOT of factors impacting on suicide rates - so many that comparisons between countries is fraught

So let us look at a country which went from lots of guns to few guns in the space of about a year

Australia

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...nticated=false&deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=


http://www.gunsandcrime.org/auresult.html
and Canada
http://www.amsciepub.com/doi/abs/10.2466/pr0.1993.72.3.787

 

Nope.

I am saying that firearms do not impact suicide rates. How can I claim correlation equals causation when I explicitly said "correlation =/= causation"?

Your argument is moot.

 

Changed yer mind??

 

I served in Viet Nam. I am very familiar with the capabilities, so TV does not affecr what I know about gunshot wounds. Americans are not the only ones tunning willy nilly shooting people.
Let's see if I have your perspective down pat:
1. Absolutely no gus in the hands of any private citizens, anywhere.
2. Only cops and military would possess guns.
Pretty accurate?

 

,,,a twekve year old know how to use your techniques effectively...rightttttttttt ....
..........and a high heel through a door? That'll work......
Question, tho, what in the hell is a 13 year old doing with spiked high heels?

 

Nope.

I am stating a fact.

The fact the gun control does not appear to have an impact on suicide rates being that there are many countries with strict gun control (including your own) that have higher suicide rates than the United States. A fact you seem to be ignoring at the moment, and instead choose to use that time to play a semantics game.

So in all the other countries its "cultural causes", but in the US its guns? LOL

 

I think actively choosing to make yourself more vulnerable to criminals---is rather suicidal. And fighting to make others more vulnerable is akin to murderous.

I'm glad the little girl shot the intruder. Some disapprove.

 

Hmmm - there is a clear disparity between the two posts you made and you are now claiming I am playing with semantics?

You original contention was

Not that the suicide rates were unchanged but that countries had a HIGHER suicide rate. Now if you simply made a mistake and originally intended to write "Countries with strict gun control have a higher rate of suicide using other means and therefore guns do not reduce the overall death rate" that is different and I can accept that it was a mistake but please do not attempt to cover up by accusing others of semantics

 

I am not saying she should not have acted as she did

What I am saying, and others are too, is that this one incident is not a usual outcome for unsecured firearms left in a house and that there are other ways of defending yourself - in other words just because you do not have a gun and cannot get to a gun does not mean you are helpless

 

Here is another post of mine that is worded ever so slightly differently that you passed over:

I am quite critical of the guns = crime and guns = crime reduction camps. Why would a reduction in firearms lead to an increase of suicides? By what mechanism would a reduction in firearms result in an increased rate of suicides? To suggest such is imply asinine.

Are you going to focus on your semantics game or address the issue? I am not going to address the semantics game again.

Why do other countries have higher suicide rates than the US despite the large absence of firearms? Please answer directly and concisely.

I believe this is the third time I have asked you this simple and direct question.

 

Frankly we have enough incidents here where I live.... of homeowners chasing out intruders with their guns---that I can't agree with you. And women especially aren't going to do well with the brute force of bat beating an intruder.

I won't tell you what you should do in Australia....because I don't know the society there. But you are telling me, a 4 "11 93lb small boned person that my best option is to grab a bat and start beating a man most likely twice my size and weight to protect myself. I simply think that is not your place.

 

Guns are good---when in the hands of law abiding citizens.



http://www.newson6.com/story/197051...s-gunfire-with-intruders?clienttype=printable

http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/broken-arrow-woman-shoots-at-home-intruders

http://www.news9.com/story/15502976/tulsa-homeowner-shoots-kills-burglary-suspect-inside-his-home

http://www.tulsaworld.com/specialpr...id=450&articleid=20120705_11_A15_Ahomeo567816

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=12&articleid=20120928_12_0_ALDERS674267

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=12&articleid=20120914_12_0_VINSON815483

 

Unless your dress makes you look like a skunk... Then you're fair game.