Antarctic Ice Loss Caused by Geothermal Heat, not Atmospheric or Ocean Warming

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by Jack Hays, Jul 13, 2023.

  1. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    All those scary pictures and stories about the "Doomsday Glacier" have nothing to do with global warming. They have everything to do with geothermal heat.
    New Study: Maps Of Ice Mass Loss Show Geothermal Heat Flow Explains 2003-2019 Antarctic Ice Melt
    By Kenneth Richard on 13. July 2023

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    There is a “direct link” between the location of origin for recent ice melt in Antarctica and geothermal heat flow.
    High geothermal heat flow (GHF) is mostly why Antarctic ice melts, not “atmospheric and ocean forcing,” which is what has been commonly thought until recently (Haeger et al., 2023).

    Even though atmospheric CO2 is well-mixed, or about the same everywhere over the Southern Hemisphere, we are asked to believe anthropogenic CO2 emissions are responsible for ice melt at very specific locations on the Antarctic continent, whereas it is not responsible for the mass gains at other locations on the ice sheet.

    This belief that human CO2 emissions concentrate their alleged ice-melting powers at certain locations at the base – underneath – the ice sheet as it simultaneously leaves other ice sheet regions alone cannot be explained with atmospheric physics.

    On the other hand, since the location of origin for modern (2003-2019) ice mass losses “coincides with a region of elevated GHF, which can further destabilize the ice sheet and could drive unstable retreat,” it is much more easily assumed GHF is primarily responsible for Antarctic ice melt. Not human emissions.

    “It is common to attribute changes in the ice dynamics and subsequent ice loss to atmospheric and oceanic forcing. However, recent studies suggest a direct link between the location of the origin of ice streams and zones of increased heat flow (Petrunin et al., 2013; Rogozhina et al., 2016; Smith-Johnsen et al., 2020) that allows to consider GHF as an important factor in ice dynamics. Our results also show a good spatial correspondence with the map of ice mass loss between 2003 and 2019.”

    [​IMG]

    Image Source: Haeger et al., 2023
     
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  2. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Japanese Antarctic Showa Station Has Been Cooling Over The Past 40 Years
    By P Gosselin on 2. August 2023

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    Alarmists have claimed lately that global warming has hit Antarctica, finally. But that hasn’t been the case at all at the Japanese Showa station.

    Today we present a a temperature chart of the Japanese Antarctic Showa station, located on the East Ongul Island in Queen Maud Land, Antarctica.

    [​IMG]

    The temperature trend at Syowa, also called Showa, has been modestly downward since 1973:

    [​IMG]

    Chart by: Kirye. Data source:: JMA.

    There’s been no warming. Right now it’s winter in Antarctica and temperatures there are way below freezing. Recent claims that the ice is melting there are absurd.
     
  3. bobobrazil

    bobobrazil Well-Known Member

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    paywall
     
  4. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Not at NTZ.
     
  5. bobobrazil

    bobobrazil Well-Known Member

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    ask me for username, sorry
     
  6. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's the same name you display here.
     
  7. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    I always wondered how CO2 could mobilize itself to attack just specific targets and not the surrounding areas... This is pretty laughable when you apply this knowledge to the climate change folks and their drum beat......
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2023
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  8. bobobrazil

    bobobrazil Well-Known Member

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    nope its not and im npt going to register either
     
  9. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    As you wish.
     
  10. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Hit cancel and you can read the post. I did.
     
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  11. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  12. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  13. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Evidence continues to accumulate that contradicts the alarmist narrative about Antarctic ice.
    New Study Finds Most Of Antarctica Has Cooled By Over 1°C Since 1999…W. Antarctica Cooled 1.8°C
    By Kenneth Richard on 6. November 2023

    Significant 21st century cooling in the Central Pacific, Eastern Pacific, and nearly all of Antarctica “implies substantial uncertainties in future temperature projections of CMIP6 models.” – Zhang et al., 2023
    New research indicates West Antarctica’s mean annual surface temperatures cooled by more than -1.8°C (-0.93°C per decade) from 1999-2018. In spring, the West Antarctic Ice Sheet (WAIS) cooling rate reached -1.84°C per decade.

    Not only has the WAIS undergone significant cooling in the last two decades, most of the continent also cooled by more than 1°C. See, for example, the ~1°C per decade cooling trend for East Antarctica (2000 to 2018) shown in Fig. ES1.

    Of 28 CMIP6 models, none captured a cooling trend – especially of this amplitude – for this region. This modeling failure “implies substantial uncertainties in future temperature projections of CMIP6 models.”

    [​IMG]

    Image Source: Zhang et al., 2023
    The post-1999 cooling trend has not just been confined to Antarctica. Sea surface temperatures (SSTs) in the Eastern and Central Pacific (south of 25°N) also cooled from 1999-2018 relative to 1979-1997. This cooling encompasses nearly half of the Southern Hemisphere’s SSTs.

    [​IMG]

    Image Source: Zhang et al., 2023
    The 1999-2018 mean annual surface temperature cooling of the Antarctic continent and nearly half of the Southern Hemisphere’s SSTs do not support the claims that surface warming is driven by human emissions of greenhouse gases (GHGs). After all, if the widespread cooling cannot be explained by the increase in GHG forcing, why would the same concentrations of GHGs explain the areas with warming temperatures?
     
  14. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  15. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    New Study: Antarctic Sea Ice Completed Half Its Deglacial Retreat 1000s Of Years Before CO2 Began Rising
    By Kenneth Richard on 16. November 2023

    The timing of the dramatic Antarctic sea ice decline during the last deglaciation suggests solar forcing and sea ice retreat “instigated” century-scale climate warming and atmospheric CO2 change. This would appear to challenge the perception CO2 plays a causal role in glacial-interglacial sea ice and climate changes.
    From ~21,000 to 19,500 years ago, when CO2 was thought to have been at its lowest point in the Quaternary ice age (~180 ppm), the sea ice surrounding East and West Antarctica completed 50% of its eventual deglaciation-era decline (Sadatzki et al., 2023).

    ndependent lines of evidence supporting that early sea ice and surface ocean changes in the Southern Ocean initiated as early as ~19.5 ka ago (with signs of summer sea ice retreat in our reconstruction as early as ~21 ka ago) and thus (at least) about 2 ka before major deglacial changes in global ocean circulation, climate, and atmospheric CO2.”

    The increase in 65°S insolation during these millennia was deemed sufficient to drive this magnitude of sea ice retreat.

    “This early increase in local integrated summer insolation at 65°S, which is independent of the longitude, may have thus provided enough energy to initiate melting of the near-perennial sea ice cover in late glacial.”

    As the authors of the study point out, the timing of this early sea ice recession was at least 2,000 years before the Antarctic climate began warming (by a magnitude of an eventual 8°C), and before CO2 began rising (by 80 ppm) over the course of the ~5,800-year deglaciation phase (~17,500 to 11,700 years ago).

    The millennial-scale lag not only suggests CO2 was not a contributing factor in Antarctic sea ice retreat, but that the the sea ice retreat may have been the factor sequentially “instigating” Antarctic warming and CO2 rise.

    “Our findings underpin the instrumental role of changes in the Antarctic sea ice cover in contributing to and possibly instigating changes in Southern Ocean overturning, atmospheric CO2, and Antarctic climate at the last glacial–interglacial transition.

    [​IMG]

    Image Source: Sadatzki et al., 2023
     
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  16. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  17. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  18. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Exactly......
    and if a major volcano were to go active under sensitive parts of the massive Antarctic Ice Sheet then ocean levels could rise rapidly.......

    which in my opinion, brings us to the place where we need to forget about a Carbon Tax which will not address the threat of rising ocean levels.....

    and instead we need to invest in deliberately turning deserts green...... Actually... certain parts of deserts that could become a major water sink.......

    we need large water sinks.. far more than carbon sinks... but trees and plants accomplish both functions.

    https://www.water-technology.net/projects/sorek-desalination-plant/

     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2023
  19. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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