Israel has violated its agreement over 200 times .. each time getting more land. Its a blood feud .. I do not take sides in this issue. Both sides have behaved reprehensibly.
{{{""The union of workers brings the victory.""}} Hey, Kil, Marxism failed, or don't you read the papers???
And how many times has Hamas attacked them? Syria? Lebanon? Rocket attacks from Palestinian territory is an almost daily occurance. Nobody ever seems to talk about that. But if Israel strikes back, then they are the bad guys.
Oh, BULL CRAP!!! Since the Arab League attacked her when she was 1 day old and has commited acts of war against her were since I would say that the Arabs are the ones to blame. You want to point the finger at Israel and gloss over the 1969 Cairo Agreement?? You want to throw out the fact that the Arabs were sending Terrorist across Lebanon's boarder for 14 years before Israel attacked back? Come on if you think you have more on Israel than she has on the Arabs, let's play.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2011 List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_school_bus_attack Hamas school bus attack http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2012-02/16/c_122713281.htm Israeli jets pound Gaza targets after two-day missile barrage {{And you would regard this as an Israeli violation}}} http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel Palestinian rocket and mortar attacks on Israel from the Gaza Strip have occurred since 2001. Between 2001 and January 2009, over 8,600 rockets had been launched, leading to 28 deaths and several hundred injuries,[1][2] as well as widespread psychological trauma and disruption of daily life.[ Want me to keep going, there's plenty more.
What part of "Its a blood feud .. both sides behave reprehensibly" did you not understand the first time ?
And you can do exactly the same thing on the other side. I do not know why you are trying to convince me of something I already concede ? If you want to compare death tolls you will fine that deaths of Palestinian Children outnumber deaths of Israeli Children 7 to 1. This is not a pissing contest .. Both sides do and have done bad things to each other. There were 21 Israeli Pilots that refused to fly any more assassination missions because they were killing so many innocent bystanders. (Ask me for links .. Please . or just google it yourself) A large percentage of the Israeli population is against the actions of the military. Apologising for "either side" is supporting the perpetrators of Terror. Period.
Spare me your one sided perspsective. Anyone can look on either side and point out a multitude of offenses. If you do a Google search "history if the Israel Palestine conflict" This is the very first link that comes up. How tough is that ?http://ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html Published by Jews for Justice in the Middle East
Am I Marxist? Now I discover it. And only do you have a cheap ad-hominem tying? Please do it better the next time. And capitalism and USA too. But yeah. The topic is that some people want to imprison people just for their beliefs, that is pure fascism. Ah, and according to this I would be a terrorist, because I support the Palestinian, and in no way all Palestinian are terrorists. Also you are saying that a whole group, country are terrorists, that is false. It is like saying that all Israelians are terrorists just because in the state they are living is terorist.
My point is which side keeps it going??? And don't tell me it's both sides. Arab attacks against Israel out number Israels attacks against arabs.
I never said any one wanted to imprison someone for their beliefs. But if they help fund the terrorist, or offer them any kind of aid, THEN they need imprisoned. But your silly byline about union workers is a joke. Broad outline. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_political_violence What they have been up to lately; http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/TheList.htm Why it gets personal; http://avpv.tripod.com/AmericanVictims.html AMERICAN VICTIMS KILLED DURING Arab mostly "Palestinian" Other things they have been up to; http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1993321/posts Chronological List of Islamic Terrorist Attacks, 1968 - 2004 http://www.lebanese-forces.org/lebanon/agreements/cairo.htm TERRORIST ATTACKS About the List of Terrorist Attacks How they set up Lebanon for terrorist training camps and to lanch attacks on Israel; http://www.lebanese-forces.org/lebanon/agreements/cairo.htm Palestinian political violence I can continue but you get the idea. Go cry to someone else about the "Poor Palestinians". They are nothing more than murdering thugs. And before you start with the old, "The Jews stole their land", nonsense here's a map of "Palestine" in 1920 when this all first started; http://www.justicenow4israel.com/mandatemap.html Here's a map of 1922 "Palestine"; http://images.search.yahoo.com/imag...b=14hs4l7sc&sigi=12jqg19k3&.crumb=pOkKcaUngSB Now here's a map of how England started slicing it up in 1923; http://unimaps.com/jordan-pal1923/print.html The the U.N. partitioned "Palestine" and it looked something like this; http://images.search.yahoo.com/imag...b=14ivpo6d1&sigi=12ceohv08&.crumb=pOkKcaUngSB Then the Arabs started killing Jews again and when the Jews had driven them out of the Jews side of the partition and declaired themselves a nation 5 Arab countries had to attack the fledgling nation all at the same time while telling the arabs in the area to go ahead and get out for the next 4 or 5 weeks while we drive these Jews into the sea. OOOPPPSSS...; http://images.search.yahoo.com/imag...b=13li70ggc&sigi=11m2rf3it&.crumb=pOkKcaUngSB Like I said, go cry on someones shoulder that will listen to your noonsense about Israel being the aggressor.
"Both sides" keep it going. I don't know where you get your intel from but it is badly misinformed. How many strikes did Israel conduct when it attacked Lebanon and what was the damage and killing of innocents of each of those attacks relative to the Arab attacks ? Child deaths are 7-1. The Israeli's could not even deal with a few boats flying peace banners and brining aid to Gaza without killing a bunch of people. You stop the boat .. board it .. and check for illegal stuff. But nooooo .. lets do a commando raid on a boat with a bunch of multinational folks trying to get aid to some people in need and shoot a bunch of them. If this had Syria or China do this the Western Media would still be crying bloody murder and you know it. Are there bulldozers showing up at Israeli houses telling the inhabitants to leave ? What is the difference between a suicide bomer blowing themselves up and killing innocent people or a 500 lb bomb dropped on a crowded apartment complex killing people ? The hard liners in power in Israel do not want to solve this issue and they regularly engage in terror.. at least according to a large percentage of the Israeli population and according to 21 Israeli fighter pilots. Even the White house under Bush criticized Israeli atrocities. This is a blood feud. Apologising for one sides atrocities over the other only serves to support terrorism.
Palestinians can't be Americans unless they abandon faithful adherence to the tenets of Islam. Look at Major Nidal Hasan, MD, the Ft. Hood terrorist, as an example of what happens when a Muslim Palestinian gets US citizenship.
What on earth are you talking about ? Israel did not exist until after WWII so what difference does it make what the borders were in 1920. Jerusalem was under Christian control until the 7th century when a coalition of Jews and Muslims started fighting the Christians. Jews were not even allowed in the city at this time. In 638 the Islamic caliphate extended its dominion to Jerusalem and Jews were finally let back into the city. Around 1100 the Jerusalem was conquored by the crusaders who massacred most of its Muslim and Jewish inhabitants. In 1187 Saladin took Jerusalem and Muslims and Jews were once again allowed to return to the city. The Tartar's took over in 1244 and again expelled the Jews but then the Egyptian Turks took over until 1517 when the Ottoman Turks took over and Suleiman the Magnificent in the 16th century even had a Jew as one of his top Vizers. Many Jews and Muslims were evacuated from Spain to the safety of Ottoman lands. Not sure if you are getting the picture here but for about 1000 years or more the Christians were persecuting and killing Jews. If it were not for the Muslims there would have been no Jews in Jerusalem in 1917 when the British took over. During the war, the British had promised the Arab nations their independence in return for their cooperation in helping to defeat the Ottoman Turks. At the same time, the British declared its support for the goal of Zionism of establishing a national home for the Jewish people and permitted Jewish immigration into Palestine. As Jewish immigration continued and Arabs were displaced from their land, violent clashes between the two communities began to erupt. You can to through the littany of UN Resolutions condemning the actions of Israel since 1948. Israel has violated the terms of UN resolutions which gave Israel authority over the region to begin with over 200 times .. each time gaining more land. It is not like the Arabs did not rise up against oppression this is generally what people do they are forcibly displaced from their homes. Did Arabs massacre Jews .. absolutely .. Did Jews massacre arabs .. absolutely. If you have any doubt about the nature of the right wing Zionist underground terrorist organization you should check into the bombing King David Hotel in 1946. That attack was carried out by the Irgun, whose leader, Menachem Begin, would later become prime minister of Israel. It was actually the offices of the British mandatory authority that were attacked in this case. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
{{""How many strikes did Israel conduct when it attacked Lebanon and what was the damage and killing of innocents of each of those attacks relative to the Arab attacks ?""}} I believe you will find that the majority of the deaths were caused by Lebanes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_civil_war The war lasted from 1975 to 1990 and resulted in an estimated 150,000 to 230,000 civilian fatalities. Another one million people (a quarter of the population) were wounded, and today approximately 350,000 people remain displaced. There was also a mass exodus of almost one million people from Lebanon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre The Sabra and Shatila massacre was the massacre of between 762 and 3,500 Palestinian and Lebanese civilians in the Sabra and Shatila Palestinian refugee camps in Beirut, Lebanon between September 16 and September 18, 1982, during the Lebanese civil war. {{""The Israeli's could not even deal with a few boats flying peace banners and brining aid to Gaza without killing a bunch of people. ""}} Funny you should mention boats because Wilson got us into WW1 with the cry, "Remember the Lusitania", a British flag ship that was carring munitions in her holes and Germany adertized for a month in New York for no American to take her because they were going to sink her because she was violating the Geneva convention by carring those munitions. They found the Lusitania a few years back and guess what her holes were full of. MUNITIONS!!! And without verafing what those boats were carring I wouldn't let them in either. What you don't seem to understand is, that if the Arabs loss a war, they can carry on the same as before, but if Israel losses one there will be no more Israel. {{""If this had Syria or China do this the Western Media would still be crying bloody murder and you know it.""}} After what the Arabs have been doing to the Jews for the last 92 years, I really don't care what the Jews do back. When the Arabs STOP their killing so will Israel. {{""Are there bulldozers showing up at Israeli houses telling the inhabitants to leave ?""}} The suicide terrorist's families get paid $25,000 per terrorist that gets killed. In the West Bank guess how much a house cost??? $25,000. Israel is just taking the profit out of the Arabs sending their kids in to kill Israelis. We take homes, car, land, ect, ect, to take the profit out of the drug trade here. Not much difference {{""What is the difference between a suicide bomer blowing themselves up and killing innocent people or a 500 lb bomb dropped on a crowded apartment complex killing people ?""}} You will find that 500 pond bomb is targeting terrorist where the suicide bomber is targeting civilians, manily women and children. Their men don't want to meet the Israeli men on a battle field anymore so the Arab men target women and children. {{""The hard liners in power in Israel do not want to solve this issue and they regularly engage in terror.. at least according to a large percentage of the Israeli population and according to 21 Israeli fighter pilots.""}} But they did have pilots to do the job. But since you like to throw that around it wasn't 21 pilots it was 27. But then you find things like that in a lot of air forces don't you; http://www.haaretz.com/news/interna...ers-to-bomb-opposition-held-benghazi-1.345246 'Libya air force pilots refuse orders to bomb opposition-held Benghazi' {{""Even the White house under Bush criticized Israeli atrocities. ""}} Haven't found anything under that one yet but I'll keep looking. {{""This is a blood feud. Apologising for one sides atrocities over the other only serves to support terrorism""}} Let's see how much water that bucket holds shall we?? Israel has offered land for peace, Egypt took it, Syria didn't. Now Egypt wants to renig. Israel offered peace if the Arabs would simply recognize Israeli's right to exist. And what have the Arabs done? Attacked some more. This has went on since 1948 and I'm to the point of saying, Israel, if they attack again drive them into Jordan or if it comes from the south, drive them into the sea or Egypt. If Syria and Egypt attack Isral again, the Israel should take the Whole of the Siani and drive the Syrians into Turkey. You think your tired of it, I'm sick to death of it and it's about time the U.N. gets out of the way and let's one side or the other win.
{{""What on earth are you talking about ? Israel did not exist until after WWII so what difference does it make what the borders were in 1920.""}} And you think I don't know when Israel became a country? But while your at it, "Palestine" has NEVER been a country. And I was showing what the size of "Palestine" was before the British started slicing it up. And isn't it funny that your "Pals" of today aren't clamoring for ALL of "Palestine" to be turned over to them instead of just Israel, or did that fact go over your head?? {{""Jerusalem was under Christian control until the 7th century when a coalition of Jews and Muslims started fighting the Christians. Jews were not even allowed in the city at this time.""}} And you think your telling me anything I don't know???? What has that got to do with anything??? {{""If it were not for the Muslims there would have been no Jews in Jerusalem in 1917 when the British took over. ""}} The Ottomans were a little more liberal than the muslims of today. {{""During the war, the British had promised the Arab nations their independence in return for their cooperation in helping to defeat the Ottoman Turks. At the same time, the British declared its support for the goal of Zionism of establishing a national home for the Jewish people and permitted Jewish immigration into Palestine.""}} Once more you know nothing of the situation of the time and place. Who was it that the deal was made with??? I'll save you the effort of looking it up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussein_bin_Ali,_Sharif_of_Mecca He initiated the Arab Revolt in 1916 against the increasingly nationalistic Ottoman Empire during the course of the First World War. In 1924, when the Ottoman Caliphate was abolished, he further proclaimed himself Caliph of all Muslims. He ruled Hejaz until 1924, when, defeated by Abdul Aziz al Saud, he abdicated the kingdom and other secular titles to his eldest son Ali. And who led the Arab fighters??? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal_I_of_Iraq With the help of Lawrence, Faisal sided with the British army and organised the Arab revolt against the Ottoman Empire, helping to end the Caliphate. After a long siege he conquered Medina, defeating the defense organized by Fakhri Pasha. Some of Faisal's critics considered fighting alongside Christians as a betrayal of Islam; this motivated Iqbal to write against him. Though Faisal was a descendant of the Islamic prophet Muhammad, Arab nationalism and independence, not religion, was his main motivation. Faisal also worked with the Allies during World War I in their conquest of Greater Syria and the capture of Damascus, where he became part of a new Arab government in 1918. And who was it that brokered the deal with the Jews in 1919???? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal–Weizmann_Agreement The FaisalWeizmann Agreement was signed on 3 January 1919, by Emir Faisal (son of the King of Hejaz), and Chaim Weizmann (later President of the World Zionist Organization) as part of the Paris Peace Conference, 1919 settling disputes stemming from World War I. It was a short-lived agreement for Arab-Jewish cooperation on the development of a Jewish homeland in Palestine and an Arab nation in a large part of the Middle East. So let's see, Faisal was Hussein's son, Faisal lead the Arab Troops in helping to defeat the Ottomans, Faisal also brokered the deal with the Jews, which the british quickly skewered, and you want to sit there and tell me that the Arabs didn't know that "Palestine" was NOT suppose to go to the Jews as a homeland???? You defy all logic with that nonsense. And Gif, Faisal and his father knew it wasn't just that little piece of land they now hold but ALL of Palestine. Yes, Gif, that 1920 map of Palestine was suppose to be the Jewish homeland and the Arabs agreed with it so where in the world do you come up with your nonsense??? {{""As Jewish immigration continued and Arabs were displaced from their land, violent clashes between the two communities began to erupt.""}} Rubbish. NO ARAB was displaced for their land. The land the Jews held from 1919 to 1947 they bought cash money. You might want to read up on history a littl before you start throwing such idiotic ideas around; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Palestine_riots Speeches by Arab religious leaders during the festival, in which traditionally large numbers of Muslims gathered for a religious procession, led to a serious outbreak of violent assaults on the city's Jews, with five Jews killed and hundreds wounded So it was theMuslim clerics stirring up the Arabs, not Jews displacing anyone. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots September 1928, Jews at their Yom Kippur prayers at the Western Wall placed chairs and customary screens between the men and women present. Jerusalem commissioner Edward Keith-Roach, while visiting the Muslim religious court overlooking the prayer area, pointed out the screen, precipitating emotional protests and demands from the assembled sheiks that it be removed. Unless it was taken down, they said, they would not be responsible for what happened. This was described as violating the Ottoman status quo that forbade Jews from making any construction in the Western Wall area, though such screens had been put up from time to time. The British issued an ultimatum for its removal. When police officers in riot gear were then sent in, a scuffle took place with worshippers and the screen in question was destroyed. The intervention drew censure later from senior officials who judged that excessive force had been exercised. Haj Amin al Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem exploited the incident by distributing leaflets to Arabs in Palestine and throughout the Arab world which claimed that the Jews were planning to take over the al-Aqsa Mosque. One consequence was that Jewish worshippers frequently were subjected to beatings and stoning So once more we have Muslim clerics stirring the pot and getting the Arabs worked up over nothing and once more the Arabs start killing the Jews. And that's the way it went up till today. So far every thing you have came up with is wrong, try reading history a little closer and you might find out the truth.
I do not support jailing anyone for ideas. As an artist I detest even censorship despite my Christianity. However in extenuating circumstances someone supporting terrorism to the point of advocating it should be jailed. KKK members and jailed for the same thing. Actually in America the USA one can advocate overthrow of the government, but the advocating must be accomplished suggesting non violent overthrow. Lastly the OT seemed to be designed as a 'troll thread' ...kind of. It was looking for a specific answer so the U-suspects could reply in a fashion like.... well similar to your reply! reva NEVER AGAIN...Treblinka, Auschwitz-Birkenau, Dachau
Israel gave back the Sinai right? The Israeli withdrawal from the Sinai Peninsula demonstrated that Israel is willing to make painful sacrifices for peace. Sharon even attacked Israeli settlers that refused the order to leave, ie; "Many Israelis were opposed to the idea of giving up land for an uncertain peace. Over 3,000 settlers in the town of Yamit opposed withdrawal and violently resisted the evacuation of their homes. Under Ariel Sharon’s command, the IDF forcefully evacuated settlers from Yamit. The images of Israeli civilians being dragged from their homes by Israeli soldiers resonates in the minds of many Israelis and an important symbol of how far Israel is willing to go for peace. Not only was returning the land won in war emotionally painful it was economically painful as well She gave up ; The homes of over 7,000 Israelis. The Alma Oil Field, valued at over $100 billion. Israel would have had energy independence had they held on to it. More than 170 military installations & dozens of early warning stations and strategic defense locations. April 25, 1982 – Israeli soldiers, under the command of Ariel Sharon forcibly remove settlers from their homes and out of the Sinai Peninsula. The Israeli Government razes the city of Yamit to ensure that the settlers would not return to the area. From April 26, 1982 to today Israel is completely withdrawn from the Sinai Peninsula. Israel and Egypt are at peace. Then in August, 2005 – Israel withdraws from the Gaza Strip. What have the Arabs given Israel? There is a big difference between terrorism and legal war. I detest all war. However in my lifetime I have learned that we must defend our way of life to the death at times. Our soldiers and your soldiers have given you and I the luxury of waxing and waning philosophically on this forum. Its nice to believe that war is never an option. Nevertheless that kind of thinking while sweet is dangerously naive. Believe it or not there are people in the world that want to subjugate you and your country. A strong military is the ONLY final word that molds the global map with artificial lines we call borders and either gives its citizens a measure of freedom or enslaves them under a theocracy or other dictator ruled system. Talk has its place but when the talk turns to butting heads with no movement on either side its usually WAR that will solves the dispute. War draws the borders and dictates what the people can and can not do. War sometimes installs governments which IMO are all evil by default, separated only by degrees of good and bad. That said, we have become fat and lazy both intellectually and physically forgetting that war is the awful and sometimes the ONLY solution. If its twaddle its true twaddle. A majority of Israelis are more Zionists than not. The truth is that most Israelis want peace just as most people in the world. Some people, most of whom only understand military might want a short cut to peace with them or their paradigm as dictator. Of course the governments are not always or even often a representation of its people. I feel that the Arabs at least those that hate the west and Israel have a satanic agenda of world domination. If the world has the misfortune of becoming a one government system either Orwellian/western corporate or A Islamic Shari law world theocracy, we will witness horrors not seen since man has been on this planet. Total power corrupts totally. reva [FONT="Co pperplate Gothic Bold"]NEVER AGAIN[/FONT][FONT="Copperplate Gothic Bold"]...Treblinka, Auschwitz-Birkenau, Dachau[/font]
Pro-Palestinian Americans have long be disregarded in American society as "anti-Semitic, terrorists" for merely hinting that the crimes Israelis commit against Palestinians are wrong. As soon as you question Israels occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, you are bombarded with Alan Derschowitz style attacks. We will not be silenced, and nobody has the right to call me a terrorist.
Because the "Palestinian" Terrorist are the ones that keep it going. Like I have said before, push the so called "Palestinians" back into the nation they hold citizenship with and that's Jordan. Oh, Jordan kicked them out??? Why??? Because they tried to over throw the Jordanian Government the first 2 years they were there??? And they fought their next host country of Labanon in a civil war that lasted 15 years, and you want to cry because Israel hits them back when they hit Israel??? And you think that is only Israel the "Palestinians" can't get along with??? Here's a crying towel, just go over into the corner and have yourself a good cry and get it out of your system. Oh, if you back the Palestinian Terrorist then you are aiding them with your support and I DO have the right to call you a terrorist supporter. But, go on now, the corner is right over there, have a GOOD snivel
BS. Everyone(Obviously I exclude the stupid,ignorant and just plain dumb) in the entire world knows that the Israelis are the ones who do not want peace,the evidence is outstanding against them. When they continue to steal Palestinian land there will be no peace and that is exactly what the Israeli want,no peace until they have stolen all the land.
