Armed citizen patrols protect community in sheriff's absence

http://news.yahoo.com/armed-posse-patrols-timber-land-sheriffs-place-085323039.html


In this Oct. 12, 2012, photo, Sam Nichols, left, and Glenn Woodbury pose in front of Woodbury's pickup in O'Brien, Ore. The two men are part of a newly-formed neighborhood watch

O'BRIEN, Ore. (AP) — There's no room in the county jail for burglars and thieves. And the sheriff's department in a vast, rural corner of southwest Oregon has been reduced by budget cuts to three deputies on patrol eight hours a day, five days a week.

But people in this traditionally self-reliant section of timber country aren't about to raise taxes to put more officers on the road. Instead, some folks in Josephine County, larger than the state of Rhode Island, are taking matters into their own hands — mounting flashing lights on their trucks and strapping pistols to their hips to guard communities themselves. Others have put together a virtual neighborhood watch, using Facebook to share tips and information.

"I believe in standing up for myself rather than waiting for the government to do something for me," said Sam Nichols, a retired marina manager.

Nichols has organized a posse of about a dozen fed-up residents who have started patrolling the small community of O'Brien, which has about 750 residents.

"We call ourselves the CAC Patrol, Citizens Against Crime," he said.

Separately, a retired sheriff's deputy in a community about 10 miles away has started a Facebook page called "To Catch a Thief," an open group that has nearly 1,200 members who post reports of crimes that aren't priorities for the county sheriff's office.

"In a rural community like this, we all know each other, and we're all related," said Carol Dickson, who started the group about three months ago and posts regularly. "People know who's doing this," she said of the property crimes around Cave Junction, a town of nearly 2,000 people about 30 miles from the county seat of Grants Pass. "They are getting tired of it," Dickson said. "They are speaking up, and they are saying, 'Enough.' "

Josephine County Sheriff Gil Gilbertson says he's glad for the help but warns that law enforcement is dangerous work. "They need to really understand there are consequences that can be very costly, physically as well as legally," he said, explaining that volunteers could get sued or shot if they pull a gun on someone or make a false arrest. "Most of them haven't had what I feel is an adequate level of training to do that they do," he said. "But if they serve as eyes and ears and only report what they see to law enforcement, I think they can keep themselves at a safe level."

Policing expert Dennis Kenney, a professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York City, says neighborhood watch efforts can be positive but turn into problems when volunteers "decide that instead of supplementing law enforcement, they are going to replace law enforcement. Then you cross potentially into vigilantism." Kenney said vigilantes tend to get "out of control — especially when people are armed." He added that "people drawn to this sort of thing are the kinds of personalities more likely to take it too far."
(this "expert" sounds like a gun control supporting liberal to me, especially coming from NYC and all)

Nichols says what his group is doing is "not vigilantism at all". "If it was, we would have taken care of a couple of problems a long time ago," he added. "Because we knew who they were, and where they lived."

Another CAC Patrol member, Glenn Woodbury, an electrical supplies distributor, wears a .45-caliber automatic pistol in a shoulder holster when he goes out. He says he carries the weapon only for protection and that members of the patrol consider it their primary responsibility to gather information, such as a license plate number, that would allow deputies to make an arrest.

Since the patrols started a few months ago, group members have reported a wildfire being set and someone trying to break into an SUV. The police log in the Grants Pass Daily Courier shows five thefts or burglaries in O'Brien from January through July, but none since August.

"These people know they no longer own the night," Woodbury said of potential criminals.

"They can't back a pickup up to somebody's home when you've got patrols watching," he added.

For her part Dickson, who retired from the Josephine County Sherriff's Office before Gilbertson was elected and has frequently been at odds with the man who replaced her old boss, says her digital network has helped make the Illinois Valley safer.

She says her group has tracked down stolen property, including several cars, and even helped deputies arrest a man on drug charges.

Despite her differences with Gilbertson, she won't let people post rants about the sheriff's department. And she says her group serves a vital function.

"When you have tweakers and drugs, you're going to have thefts and burglaries," she said, citing methamphetamine abuse as the root of many of the property crimes in the area.

Dickson says there isn't enough space in the county jail and that deputies don't pursue property crimes as they should.

She said criminals "know they aren't going to get punished." She added, "Nobody gets arrested. Nobody gets charged."

Josephine County, population about 83,000, recently lost $12 million in federal timber county subsidies. The jail, sheriff's patrols, prosecutors, probation officers and juvenile programs have all been drastically cut. The lockup has room for 69 inmates — only enough space for the worst offenders. As a result, theft and burglary suspects are regularly turned loose, only to be picked up later for new crimes.

But neither Nichols nor Dickson think the sheriff would do a better job of protecting their end of the county with more resources.

They both voted no on a tax proposal to make up the $12 million loss and say they would do so again if county commissioners brought the issue back up.

Their independent streak is fairly common in the area just north of the California border, which was settled during the gold rush of the 1850s and has been proudly self-reliant ever since with loggers, hippie communes and survivalists maintaining the reputation. To this day residents in the area consistently vote conservative.

Much of the land is dotted with abandoned mining camps, overgrown with trees and brush. The timber county has just one remaining sawmill in operation.

At the O'Brien crossroads, a flashing yellow light and a '50s-era police car, parked permanently on the shoulder, slow what passes for traffic in front of the general store, post office, gas station, restaurant, and RV park. There also is a bar with a sign proclaiming, "Bikers Welcome."

Nichols says he decided to start the patrols after someone stole a travel trailer from his property over the summer.

He called a community meeting in August and wore a .38 special revolver, handed down from his father, in a leather holster on his belt. About 100 people showed up, one of whom recognized a photo of his trailer and knew where it had been stashed. Gilbertson, however, declined to try to retrieve it.

"I didn't have the resources to deal with it at that time," the sheriff said. "Pretty much, what we're doing now is person-to-person crime."

In response, members of the CAC Patrol have taken to slapping magnetic gold stars and flashing amber lights on their vehicles to keep watch over the community on their own. Many carry pistols and plastic ties for handcuffs.

"If we stand shoulder to shoulder, they don't have a chance," Nichols said. "And that's what we're doing."

 

I agree with Einstein, I think prohibition is the gateway to crime

http://eazysmoke.com/marijuana-quotes.htm

"The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this."
- Albert Einstein quote on Hemp"

 

Wonderful. A few gun nuts who want to play cop. I hope for their sake that their liability insurance is current.

 

From the article, they just sound like ordinary people trying their best to protect their community by volunteering to fill in the roles of a police force that has been greatly curtailed due to budgeting problems. The article also demonstrated that they are carrying handguns that are similar or identical to firearms that the police use, and nothing more. How are you jumping to the conclusion that they are "gun nuts?"

 

Ordinary people aren't trained and properly equipped law enforcement officers.

Exactly what do you think these guys are going to do when someone refuses to comply with their commands? Under what authority can they detain someone?

These guys are a tragedy in search of a place to happen.

 

Right. The article stated that they were essentially a neighborhood watch group, and their primary responsibility was "to gather information, such as a license plate number, that would allow deputies to make an arrest."

Again. Their job is to call the deputies when they see a crime in progress. It seems that they have no authority to make commands.

It's not their job to detain anyone. Again, their purpose is to serve as a neighborhood watch and to alert deputies if they believe that a crime is being committed.

What evidence do you have to support this?

 

They might detain someone if that person was posing an immediate threat to someone else's life.

 

Look at the picture.

 

You seem to know very little about law enforcement and citizen involvement.

 

Then why the need to wear firearms?

 

I was a police commisioner in a NE Wisconsin city for 6 years. What I do know is that it's idiotic to let untrained people run around with guns and play junior police.

 

Under what authority?

 

Were packin a 45? Really bad idea if they think they can substitute themselves for the police.

 

They look fit enough to chase a methed up perp. LOL

 

And under what authority might they chase down anyone and detain them?

 

Right? It seems their movement is silly.

 

Why shouldn't they? Even if they weren't part of a neighborhood watch group, they still have the right to carry firearms legally (in their state of Oregon).

 

I have no problem with carrying firearms. What I have a problem with is two armed and untrained dimwits masquerading as psuedo law enforcement officers and implying that they have arrest powers.

 

They are not there to enforce the law; they are there to protect their community and help defend eachother's property. There's nothing wrong with that.
They do NOT have arrest powers. Not anymore than any other regular citizen. Have you heard of citizen's arrest?

A trained police force composed of selected responsible citizens is ideal. But better untrained citizens running around than no police force (or in this case a completely inadequate police force).
And does this police force really have to be professionally paid, or can they work part-time on a volunteer basis?

 

What is your solution? Let the police handle it? Oh wait, there are none.

 

The same legal authority as a cop. Police have no special powers. They have to justify themselves before s judge just like everyone else.

 

According to the article, this is not happening: They are merely acting as neighborhood watchmen.

 

well, if you had ever visited there, everyone carries a firearm. Especially the pot growers. But why the concern, you don't live there....and no one has been shot and since you don't live there, you know you'll never get shot by the these guys.
I think they also wear the gun because they can. It is their Right, afterall......

 

...this, of course, from a LEO.............LEO thinks they are the only ones who should carry a gun. They believe that firing 40 bullets into a body is their coveted right and the citizens have no right to protect themselves or their property, or their community.
Actually, these fellows are acting in the capacity of peace officers, not power hungry LEO's ...cudos , boys

 

I'd suggest your "heroes" sit down and watch "The Oxbow Incident."

A great movie about this kind of thing.