Chrisitans and Liberal Atheists, why do you keep missing the point?

To Christians: I know what you are trying to say. America is influenced heavily and partially founded on Judeo-Christian values, yea, I know, I get that, my point is, YOU NEED GOD TO EXIST IN THE FIRST PLACE to have your value system be valid. AND THE EXISTENCE OF GOD IS A SCIENTIFIC QUESTION.

If you believe hard enough that you have a new Lexus in your garage, do you see one when you open up your garage door?

To Liberal Atheists: You became an atheist because you find there is no sufficient evidence that God exist and every evidence pretty much pointed the opposite way? Good. Please apply the same level of prudence and the same thought process on the federal government. War on drugs, fail, no child left behind, fail, national security, fail, bring back jobs, fail, rejuvenate/lubricate the economy? FDR failed, Jimmy Carter failed, Obama failed miserably.

You know what? Just turn away. Enter the magic word "gubberment" every time there is a hole in your belief system just like Christians enter "God" when they encounter theirs.

 

To the first part of your post I would say you have to purchase the car or something of this nature. However, I would also ask you if the car shop just appeared, car parts which were not created by anybody or anything appeared and slammed into each other and all of a sudden there was a new car for someone to purchase. You have to purchase the car, but someone had to create the car for you to purchase.

As far as the second part of your post regarding the government, I couldn't agree more, except for the last few words, of course.

 

wtf is with this rambling? Most liberals and atheist liberals don't support the war on drugs. No child left behind was a Bush policy that I don't ever see liberals or atheists supporting. National security? I don't even know what that means. What do these things have to do with liberal atheists? Your threads are some of the most incoherent and ridiculous threads I've ever read.

 

No Child Left Behind is not supported because it's a stupid policy. A school has no test scores so they defund it and make it impossible to teach the kids there. OMG that is genius. These kids having trouble taking tests, lets strip them of their education!

NCLB forces schools to focus COMPLETELY on test taking and the schools do less actual educating.

 

If we enter the magic word “deregulation” for that financial crisis the name chosen by the topic starter shows a massive ego that thinks one supports irrational gubermint like one believes in irrational unchanging god edicts.

Enter the magic word "deregulation” every time there is a hole in your wallet just like Ego enters “fixing” when they encounter their “loser.”

2004 Democratic Platform:

"Average family debt is higher than ever. And as they lose the struggle to make ends meet, one out of every seven middle class families may be bankrupt by the end of the decade...over time, fiscal discipline saves families thousands of dollars on their mortgages and credit cards.”

“You have probably caught that Visa credit card commercial in which a wily wife hides her many shopping sprees under the bed and up in the attic, all out of sight from her clueless husband.
The punch line is that she could have won all that stuff she rung up on the plastic. But the reality behind such behavior is hardly a laughing matter.” (Rene a. Guzman, San Antonio Express-News Jan. 12, 2005 12:00 AM)

"Your debt-to-income ratio
36% or less: This is a healthy debt load to carry for most people.

37%-42%: Not bad, but start paring debt now before you get in real trouble.

43%-49%: Financial difficulties are probably imminent unless you take immediate action.

50% or more: Get professional help to aggressively reduce debt.

Source: Gerri Detweiler, author of The Ultimate Credit Handbook"
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/biztech/tools/modebtratio.htm

"WILLIS: A truck driver, Bernita saved up $14,000 to close on a six-bedroom house. Purchase price -- $180 grand. She thought she got a deal on her first loan, a two-year adjustable rate mortgage at 8.375 percent. Her monthly payments -- $1,200." http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0803/28/siu.01.html

The "unless the consumer has the ability to make the required payments" bone in connected to the "debt to income" bone,
The "debt to income" bone is connected to the "Federal Reserve Board" bone,
The "Federal Reserve Board" bone is connected to the "Charles Schwab" bone,
"Charles Schwab" bone is connected to the "Community Reinvestment Act" bone,
The "Community Reinvestment Act" bone is connected to the "subprime mortgage crisis" bone,
The "subprime mortgage crisis" bone is connected to the bailout bone,
The bailout bone is connected to the "those over 21" bone,
The "those over 21" bone is NOT connected to the "Fed finalizes credit card rules, limits teen cards" bone,
The "Fed finalizes credit card rules, limits teen cards" bone is connected to "economic crisis" bone,
The "economic crisis" bone is connected to the "tightening of credit" bone,
The "tightening of credit" bone is connected to the thick skull bone,

Now hear the word of the Lord.

"BOARD OF GOVERNORS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM DivisIoN OF BANKING SUPERVISION AND REGULATION Date: September 30, 2005:"
"Another parameter that could be combined with LTV ratios to determine capital requirements might be a capacity measure such as a debt-to-income ratio." http://www.federalreserve.gov/BOARDDOCS/PRESS/BCREG/2005/20051006/Basel1Amemo.pdf

"The Charles Schwab Corporation ("Schwab,,)l appreciates the opportunity to comment on the Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking ("ANPR") issued by the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation and the Office of Thrift Supervision (together, the "Agencies") regarding proposed revisions to the Agencies' existing domestic risk-based capital rules...

...P. 14 Another parameter that could be combined with LTV ratios to determine capital requirements might be a capacity measure such as a debt-to-income (DTI) ratio. The Agencies seek comment on (1) the use of an assessment mechanism based on LTV ratios in combination with credit assessments, debt-to-income ratios, or other relevant measures of credit quality; (2) the impact of the use of credit scores on the availability of credit orprices for lower income borrowers, and (3) whether LTVs and other measures of credit worthiness should be updated annually or quarterly and how theseparameters might be updated to accurately reflect the changing risk of a mortgage loan as it matures and asproperty values and borrower's credit assessmentsfluctuate. While we do support the use of combining LTV and industry standard FICO type credit scores in a risk-weighted capital guideline, as noted above, we do not support the inclusion of a capacity measure such as debt-to-income ratio (DTI). Our concern regarding the inclusion of such a measure is two-fold: (1) DTI is a much more subjective measurement than LTV or FICO score, and is not consistently calculated and applied by all lenders. Different lenders will calculate both income and debts using various guidelines. Additionally, some lenders will base DTI calculations only on verified income, while others may rely on stated income. There is too much variability in how this measurement is calculated and applied for it to be a meaningful guide to risk-based capital guidelines. And, (2) statistics have shown that DTI is a much less robust predictor of probability of default, or loss given default, than FICO scores and LTVs.

We do not believe that the use of credit scores in the risk-based capital guidelines will have a negative impact on the availability or price of credit to lower income borrowers. While the cost of capital can generally affect loan availability and price, we do not believe that applicant income is necessarily correlated with credit score. Many applicants with lower incomes have acceptable credit scores, while many applicants with high incomes have unacceptable credit scores. Banks are motivated to grant loans to generate revenue and profit, and most banks have very progressive mortgage programs for lower-income and fIrst-time homebuyers. The Community Reinvestment Act provides additional motivation for banks to reach out to meet the credit needs of the low-to-moderate income borrowers in their assessment areas" (January 17,2006, http://files.ots.treas.gov/comments/3173270d-dbd0-4b64-b398-487753ad9f27.pdf )

"Fed to discuss max 50% debt-to-income ratio for borrowers, prohibition on 'stated-income' loans to subprime borrowers, and other new rules" (May 29th, 2007, 3:38 pm) http://mortgage.freedomblogging.com...ns-to-subprime-borrowers-and-other-new-rules/

 

I have a problem with that premise right there. America is totally influenced by and founded by Christians. Leave the Judeo part of that out of the equation and you'll be doing all right.

 

But humans are not automobiles. Ever heard of evolution?

- - - Updated - - -

the WTF are you so uptight about? You are liberal, not A liberal.

Being open-minded≠ being liberal.

 

Wow, the ignorance is so absolutely overwhelming that I don't know where to begin to debunk ya.

Thomas Jefferson wasn't a Christian, he exerted the greatest influence over the course of US history.

Christianity was pretty much a rip-off from Judaism.

 

Humans and automobiles are both creations. They have to come from somewhere. It doesn't just happen without causation.

 

And your signature just makes me laugh. Are you serious?

 

LOL. Is it time to eliminate the state and the Roman Catholic Church?

 

I didn't 'become' Atheist, I have always been Atheist. My entire family is Atheist and has been for many generations, although my grandfather (my mother's dad) was educated in a Catholic seminary until he was 'diddled' by a priest and ran away.

As for being a Liberal,, I have never supported or voted for the Liberal Party of Australia. But I do enjoy a liberal sprinkling of chocolate on my cappuccino.

 

You claim humans to be "creations", very well, who created them? And what evidence do you have?

I know for a fact that every Toyota was created because on every chassis, there is a unique serial number, and you can access its blue print if you have the clearance.

 

Do you not have unique fingerprints and DNA? Do you believe in God?

 

You pick one of our founders (Jefferson) and you base your reasoning that our founders weren't influenced by Christianity because one man veered from the flock? No one man had the greatest influence on our nation; it was collective influence, just like it was a collective influence when they created our Constitution. And by the way, Jefferson wasn't even around to sign or create the Constitution, so don't give me that malarkey that he had the most influence of our founders. No, approximately 98% of our founders were influenced by Christianity. Sorry to have to hit you with the hard facts, but it does seem like you need to be informed of the truth, thus one of the reasons I left that signature there for your pleasure.

 

To believe the intricate workings of the human body came from evolution requires more faith than we Christians need. As a Christian and a biologist, having a Christian faith is much more plausible.

 

Watchmaker argument, who or what was the Watchmaker's Watchmaker?

Yes, you just contradicted yourself.

 

.. what aspect of Christianity is more plausible that an expression of natural selection over a period of time (evolution)?

Something tells me, you do not understand evolution.

 

I think matter and energy being created from nothing is your scientific proof. Life from inanimate matter. Science can't answer those questions. Religions may not answer them accurately, but that does not rule out a divine creation force, however you describe it or call it.

 

I have Jefferson's bible. Heavily influenced.

Yes, it is a judeo christain heritage, not just a Christian. 10 commandments are the basis of many of our values.

 

Didn't someone just get telling us that Jefferson wasn't a Christian? If he was a Deist (as some were in that era) then wouldn't it be sort of ridiculous for Jefferson to own a Bible--let alone to read bible quotes from it?

 

I did not see conservatives get mad when "that wasn't meant to be a factual statement" came as a response to a lie, like good little sheep, they went away baa baa

.

 

He was obviously Christian just didn't fit the mold. He didn't believe in mysticism, that is clear what he removed from the New Testament, but he was no less a "Christian"
It is clear he spent a good deal of time sorting thorough and understanding different texts because he found value to them.

Did they figure out what created the matter and energy involved in the Big Bang yet? How inanimate object can become living?

 

Big Bang Theory? Isn't that a current running Sitcom that highlights the nonsense of the me...me...me...generation?

 

What is it with that generation? The one 20 years older then me or the newest graduating. I got a guy that has been with us 6 mos wants to know why he doesn't make as much as my first employee. I laughed and said "because he built your job". It is TV I think, movies from back in the day valued hard work and being a good person, now it is about how much you make and being somebody.

On the upside I see a lot of promise in the generation in elementary school today. Those kids are impressive with computers, understand hard times, have strong political knowledge for their age, a d good with computers. They also go to this great charter school down the road from me.