Cost of Gun Reform

Well, violence is violence, no matter what sex initiates it.

 

You Americans find all kind of reasons to upright your gun fanaticism. What went wrong in your country?
Today modern societies have long abolished the right to carry guns, because too many bad things happened. How many school shootings per year do you have?
I think your gun lobby is very productive in telling you what to do or think.
I believe it is absolutely sick to general allow people to carry guns.

Sure can a fist be used to hurt someone, or a car can be misused or or or, however a gun has a single task, and that is to kill.....
Regards

 

You foreigners find all kind of reasons to upright your subjection to the State. What went wrong in your country?
Today modern totalitarian States have abolished the right to carry guns, because too many bad things happen when people are free.
I think your totalitarian tendency is very productive in telling you what to do or think.
I believe it is absolutely sick to generally allow people to be convinced they are subjects to faceless bureaucrats.

Yes, freedom is something the State fears.

All I can say is that the alleged advanced EU has become a bunch of cat vaginas. The idea that human nature has somehow changed is trashed by current events in the Middle East. At least some of us recognize that things have not changed much and that the only one responsible for protection of self and family is you.

 

As the link demonstrated and proved Bowerbird, 80% of the individuals killed using guns were people using guns for suicide and NOT for the reasons of homicide. It also demonstrates that the suicide rate has NOT decreased since the new regulations on control were introduced. There is a big difference in individuals using guns for the purpose of suicide, and Howard claiming and pretending that the number of suicide victims were victims of gun homicide, to pass laws that regulated gun ownership. I think the majority of people would designate someone who shoots themselves with a gun as being a suicide, and NOT a homicide, but the Government NEVER released those facts to the citizens, before they introduced the legislation. They just jumped on the band wagon and gave the citizens erroneous information, that suggest everyone who was killed that year by a gun was a homicide victim, and that was false and misleading. They should have told the citizens that 80% of the people killed by guns, were in FACT people who used guns to take their own lives - suicide.

 

And if you include all acts of violence a man is many, many, many times more likely to be a victim than a woman, but that's ignored too. Most murder victims are men. Most assault victims are men. Etc, etc, etc. The only one women "win" in is rape.

 

Uncontested, but all the evidence suggests the crime rate has not been reduced due to Howard's gun control policy.

 

Har har har! True to form. No disputing anything, just shoot the messenger and discredit the message.
Love the way you ignored these links and my earlier message.

You will note that the number of homicides in Australia began declining long before Howards gun laws. Homocide by firearm started declining in 1969. There is no change in the graphs due to the gun laws, in fact the year with the highest number of firearm homicides came several years after the gun laws were introduced. This demonstrates that the stupid gun laws had no effect whatsoever on the rate of murder in Australia.
Suicide using a firearm accounts for just 7% of all suicides. Again the gun laws had no effect.

http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@....B?opendocument

Come on BB, I know you can do it, discredit the ABS.

 

Now that IS interesting. The anti gun nuts have been keeping that quite. Another case of deliberate missleading deceit and lieing by omission from the anti gun lobby!

 

Its also a very frightening situation, when you logically consider just HOW deceptive Howard was in disarming the general population based on LIES, and how deceptive politicians are in general, regarding truthful and factual information that the citizens are never told.

I'm more concerned & frightened, when politicians enact legislation based on deception and lies, than people owning guns. I'm not suggesting that a gun in the hands of an idiot or psychotic individual is not lethal or dangerous situation, but so is any other weapon or motor vehicle, but guns have been singled out and targeted for no apparent reason., except to disarm the population from fighting back if they need too.

 

Agreed but it is far less common than domestic violence against women

 

No but the interpretation of the data is in dispute.

http://www.loc.gov/law/help/firearms-control/australia.php

http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/10/5/280.full

http://jeffsachs.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Australia-Gun-Law-Reforms.pdf
http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliam...entary_Library/pubs/BN/0708/FirearmsAustralia

You see something must have triggered the original downward trend and in normal circumstances that would in all probability shown more of an upward trend were it not for firearm reform

 

Except for the trend staring before 1996 when the gun control hysteria hit your country.

 

Actually, newer studies are showing that almost equal numbers of men and women are victims. They're also showing that women who are violent are violent more often than men.

 

How so? What is there to dispute about the ABS data?

http://www.loc.gov/law/help/firearms-control/australia.php
http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/10/5/280.full
http://jeffsachs.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Australia-Gun-Law-Reforms.pdf
http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliam...entary_Library/pubs/BN/0708/FirearmsAustralia

All the above use biased and misleading data and dialogue. One is about Victoria alone and this is our they dealt with the data:
"We calculated rates with population figures derived from estimates by the Australian Bureau of Statistics. We adopted a quasiexperimental design with a Poisson regression model to compare relative rates of firearm related deaths between Victoria and the rest of Australia".
Forget the actual data, it doesn't tell us what we want to hear! Har har har har what has that got to do with the overall affect of the gun laws in Australia?
The fact is, and the ABS data supports it, the gun laws had no discernible affect on the rates of homicide, suicide, violent crime or even firearm accidents in Australia. According to some reports I have read there are more firearms in private hands today than before the gun buy back. A great number of the guns handed in were old or malfunctioning rifles that had little or no resale value but the government was offering good money for them so they were quickly handed in. I know, I handed in two old virtually useless rifles and was given more than five times what I would have been able to sell them for, that's if I could have sold them at all! As for the absurd notion that the gun laws have prevented a mass shooting since their inception, how do you explain all the decades in the past when there was little gun control and no mass shootings?

Why should anything have 'triggered' the downward trend? The downward trend in homicides, which started decades before the gun laws, could have had numerous causes not just one.

You know what that is? stupid wishful thinking by someone who refuses to accept facts that are contrary to their dearly held beliefs.

 

We have progressed.....
Cheerio

 

LOL, so has every country that falls into authoritarianism then eh? Guess that is what you call progress.

 

Can you link to those studies please?

 

What else could you have answered, from the best country on the planet??
Still cooking with 110V, aren't we?
Give us a break, thanks.
Regards

 

No disputing interpretation and I really think that most people on this forum understand the difference between disputation of data and disputation of interpretation of data so trying that tired and debunked chestnut is useless
As are ad hominems

 

You are just trying to evade the question. I will put it a different way, what is there to interpret about the ABS's data on homicide? Homicide's started to decline in Australia in 1969 and the gun laws had no affect on this decline.
This is what the anti gun lobby does, the raw data does not suit them so they 'interpret' it to get an outcome that does suit them. So show us the raw statistics that demonstrate that the gun laws had any affect on the rates of homicides, suicides, violent crime or firearm accidents. I have already provided the proof from ABS statistics that the gun laws had no affect on homicide rates. The ball is in your court to provide contrary statistics. We don't want opinion, hersay, wishful thinking, interpretations or 'manipulated' results. Give us the hard facts.

 

As with the new draconian information laws introduced by both the LNP & ALP; the gun buy back scheme was just that. A clever scheme introduced politicians to stop the population from ever fighting back if they needed to against a dictatorship Government, which we HAVE. The politicians have control over the peoples military, and the people have no way to fight back now, unless they want to throw stick & stones against automatic weapons.

 

Correlation does not equal causation

Several studies that I have linked to disagree because there was no guarantee that the fall would have continued to decline. In fact the decline was not a smooth graph but had many hills and valleys

In fact pre 1996 there was a statistical evidence across the states that showed increased gun death rate associated with increased laxity in gun laws
http://aic.gov.au/media/1996/november/961104.html

 

You got that right!

Disagree with what? "no guarantee that the fall would have continued to decline" har har har har! I did say no opinion or wishful thinking. You haven't identified the causes of the decline which started in 1969 so it is just ridiculous to suggest, without any foundation, that the gun laws prevented a turn around in that decline.

HAR HAR HAR HAR!!! What happened to the trend that you are always harping on about? As soon as the trend line doesn't suit you, you start pointing at the actual data in some vain hope that there will be something there to lend support to your fully rebutted contention. Face it, homicides in Australia started to decline decades before the introduction of the gun laws. The gun laws had no affect on this decline. You have been unable to provide any hard evidence to the contrary.

So? We are not interested in the number of gun related deaths, we are interested in the number of deaths in total, which the gun laws have not changed! I see from your link that over 80% of deaths by firearm are suicides. How is that a danger to the community? Take away the suicides, lawful killing by the police, all accidental firearm deaths and what you are left with cannot be used to suggest that firearms are any real problem. Tobacco kills many, many more people each year