Culture of Shootings , "Thoughts and Prayers" But No Solutions

people who believe as you do, push for laws where the only people who will have firearms are those intending to harm others. Your own words show you despise honest folks being able to defend themselves. You want the government to have a monopoly on legal firepower and honest citizens helpless in the face of armed criminals-criminals who already break laws to have guns

I don' know if that is because gun banners love criminals or they despise those who think personal safety is an individual responsibility. Whatever, I reject that attitude and I want honest folks to have the means to defeat violent criminals

 

yes, that sounds right. The issue becomes: How come so many mentally ill peple have access to weapons?? Is it even POSSIBLE to keep weapons away from them??? It suggests that these people don't have good follow up care

 

You are making a lot of wrong assumptions about what people "believe' or think . Your generalizations are just that: generalizations. (not based on the real world)

Of course folks feel they have to defend/protect themselves from the threats that exist. This is life in a violent nation........where there are more weapons than people. Many of said people are not fit to own weapons as they are not responsible enough to handle them appropriately.

 

The answer to that is that the first responders aren't the police, it's the people being shot at. Learning to use a firearm in self defense doesn't take super powers. Most police spend less time in firearm training than people with CCWs.

Here's the problem with "gun free zones": the people who are going to obey the rules of the gun free zone are not the people who would commit a mass shooting. A person that wants to murder as many people as possible choose gun free zones because they know the people there are probably not armed. Unless there is armed security at all entrances to a "gun free zone", it will never be a "gun free zone".

You said it yourself "it takes an idiot / mental case with a gun to take advantage of such a situation". That's the profile of a mass shooter.

 

Its a good point. Just looking around from trans folks in women's sports, to a male Undersecretary in Biden's administration that wore women's clothes and stole women's luggage from airports, to folks supporting a terrorist organization that beheads babies and rapes grandmothers, to flash mobs, to fentanyl deaths, to laws that allow theft of up to $950 with impunity to federal funds being used to pay off personal education loans, to so much more... we can see mental illness all around us.

Here's a new one that shocked me today. I called my brother-in-law to wish him a happy birthday. He lives in a very affluent suburb of San Diego. The public schools in his town have bought washing machines because the kids are showing up unkempt, with dirty clothes. Apparently the mental illness problem is not just a youth problem, it's multi-generational (includes parents).

 

They're not getting them legally in most cases. In the cases that they ARE, like the nutjob kid in FL, there were many MANY chances to stop him from purchasing lawfully.

Most firearms are stolen. An act that many will say is a "nonviolent" crime and people shouldn't be put in jail for. The problem there is that stealing guns leads to violent crime.

Start putting people in jail for 20 years for selling/possessing a stolen firearm and watch the problem go away for the most part.

Unfortunately, so many people in this country want to normalize crime.

 

Solutions are hard, you need to identify the problem and come up with a plan and devise a way of getting it done. A TEN on the hardness scale.

Thoughts and prayers are easy. All you have to do is wish for it. Some people like to close their eyes and put their hands together but it is not mandatory. A ONE on the hardness scale.

I have been debating ways to solve the mass shooting problem in America for almost a decade on this forum and elsewhere. I have given up. There is no realistic solution. One side screams for new gun laws and the other side stands firmly to protect the 2A.

FYI the 2 sides have not even met my first criteria of "identifying the problem". Guns are not the problem and more gun laws are not the solution.

 

So it is not unrealistic to have security at all entrances , is it?? It is sad that gun free zones are so vulnerable , It seems that NO where is safe .

 

ALL the "solutions" liberals want to impose on gun owners will do NOTHING to disarm people who intend to harm others. And that of course is the real goal of gun banners-banning honest people from having guns

 

So, what is the solution........IF there is one??

 

not every problem has an easy solution. AND doing crap for the sake of doing SOMETHING often is worse than doing nothing at all. My solution has several facets. One is that we need to empower victims. gun free zones need to end and civil or criminal courts should not be available to those who initiate criminal violence and end up being shot, stabbed, or beaten by their intended victim. Criminals caught with firearms are often not prosecuted -that needs to change. And in many cases, the perpetrators of this sort of violence has given numerous clues that they are whack jobs.

 

Yeah that's the thing: anyone who is going to ignore the consequences for mass murder isn't going to observe any lower penalty laws, at all.

So much could be prevented if we used the laws we have, but so many are not interested in putting criminals in jail that we are where we are.

 

Some good points, Thank you !!!

 

Excellent point about using the laws that already exist effectively.

 

If we want to save our society we have to save traditional relationships and two parent homes.

The vast majority of criminals come from single mother homes.

I don't think we have a quick solution. We have too many mentally damaged people walking around.

 

The legal system is one thing that needs to be more effective, but the mental health system needs a lot of improvement. Many of the shooters have been in treatment but were allowed to fall through the cracks. ( inadequate follow up programs.)

You are right, there is no quick or easy solution to this. In fact it is rather over whelming as there are so many variables to consider.

 

Yeah that's why it's so frustrating when those of us who carry firearms to protect are accused of contributing to the problem.

I have never seen, ever, any pro-2A person that is pro-crime. I mean that's the entire reason we carry guns....we know there is crime...and we know that the police will almost never get there in time to save anyone.

If it were up to me, I'd bring back the frickin Code of Hammurabi when it comes to criminal behavior.

 

Yup... when seconds count... police take minutes.

 

That is the thing.... RESPONSIBLE gun owners (and carriers) are not the issue. They know and follow the rules of safe ownership and usage.
Seems ease of access is an issue.. as that is when the criminals and mentally unhealthy people acquire them.

 

True enough. So on site security would be imperative .

 

A very tough issue. "Red laws" are supposedly designed to solve that problem, but too many states confiscate guns in a knee-jerk manner when anyone who knows the owner (that might have a grudge for any reason) blows a real or imaginary whistle. Guys going through a divorce don't stand a chance, for example. Bye-bye guns.

 

This might sound naïve .but why would weapons be removed from guys going through a divorce?? Doesn't make sense, does it??

 

It's not easy to lawfully purchase a firearm though. The problem comes when people commit crimes or have mental illnesses that are not documented.

If it's not documented in NICS, then NICS won't stop criminals from getting guns.

Absolutely nothing is being done to stop theft though, and theft is how firearms get into criminal hands.

 

It's usually because one of the people in the divorce accuses the other of being violent or threatening to kill themselves or others.

 

All a bitter wife has to do is tell the police her husband is violent and possibly dangerous and BANG... bye bye guns. Even if it isn't true, the police can't take chances. And a bitter wife is a lethal weapon.