Disability from having had even mild Covid - a growing problem

Go back to the now identified pathophysiology

It is not a respiratory disease but an endothelial disease. Once that patho is taken into consideration then all the long term and organ damage issues become understandable



https://www.mdpi.com/2227-9059/9/3/279

this is such a good read



https://media.springernature.com/fu...aObjects/41392_2020_454_Fig1_HTML.png?as=webp

 

I'm not opposed to all vaccinations. Just certain ones.

Covid is not like herpes and is not even in the same virus category.

 

An important side note-

this isn’t new. During the Spanish flu lots of people died and many more became permanently disabled from the disease. Which in turn ended up helping to justify a lot of eugenic programs in the 1920s in the US. I have heard (but can’t confirm right now) that this was also a motivating factor for Nazis. Like literally the 1930s Nazis capitalized on this yo try to euthanize them.

 

And today, "life not worth living" is used to justify abortion.

But let's not go off topic.

 

im glad you’re acknowledging your own post is off topic. Make sure to do better next time!

 

My point was that your post was equally off topic.

 

My point that disability rights are important because of past discrimination in a thread about how disabilities are increasing because of a deadly pandemic? Go ahead and report it if you think it’s off topic.

 

That seems like a strange point to make in this thread, but okay, I agree with you.

 

Once again I would like to remind you this is a thread about disabilities, inevitably disability rights are going to come up.

 

I think there are going to be more disabilities in the population from the vaccine too.

(whether or not you believe the pros outweigh the cons)

 

cool. Didn’t centerfield basically explain why you were wrong and your posts made you look like a fool as a result?

 

Not in this thread.

Really? "almost 1 in 2"? that sounds unbelievably high.

Of course I recognize that very serious side effects from the vaccine are relatively rare. But much less severe or less detectable side effects might be more common.

And serious side effects from the virus that require going to a hospital are not extremely common, except perhaps for the elderly or those who already have exceptional underlying medical conditions.

 

I mostly agree with what you are saying now, especially the last part.

I teach my residents, the three kinds of non-physiologic symptoms go like this (primary gain relates to internal, intra-psychic apparatus mechanisms of satisfying a desire/solving a conflict; secondary gain relates to external advantage sought in the external world such as workman's compensation, get-out-of-jail card).
Somatization: Primary gain, unconscious.
Factitious disorder: Primary gain, conscious.
Malingering: Secondary gain, conscious.

So, evidently, the somatization part is doubly unconscious. The person is not consciously or volitionally "faking" it. The person has no idea that the condition does not have an organic substract.
The factitious disorder patient knows that he/she is faking it, but the goal is to satisfy a mostly unconscious twisted desire of assuming the sick role.
The malingerer knows very well that he/she is faking it, with the goal of obtaining some sort of advantage (often related to money or to legal charges).

I disagree a little bit (not much) with your assertion about the cognitive part. Sure, in the concept of pseudodementia, a depressed and/or stressed-out person performs poorly in cognitive tests. Where I slightly disagree, is that if you apply a full battery of neurocognitive tests, generally you can tell the difference between dementia and pseudodementia (and the difference applies as well to more subtle forms that are short of dementia), with markers that assess effort (which is gone in the depressed person, and not necessarily so in the cognitively-impaired person with a neurological substract). Screening tests will generally not tell the difference, but a full, four-hour battery of multiple neurocognitive tests applied and interpreted by a PhD-level licensed psychologist will tell the difference.

I also disagree a bit more with the cardiac part. Sure, severe stress and anxiety take a toll in the heart, but that's an insidious, long process, while the damage caused by the SARS-CoV-2 is more acute. A stressed-out person who previously did not have, say, coronary artery disease (which could aggravate suddenly in the presence of stress-related tachycardia and elevated adrenergic states), won't present a sudden peak of CKMB, troponin, BNP, CRP, and EKG changes if the condition is mostly stress-related.

 

When you are co-morbid (%>250 lbs) it’s pretty easy to blame all your problems on Covid and Covid vax with the TV telling you 24/7 how screwed you are. Yes, there are issues but sitting on your ass feeling sorry for yourself is a sure way to make thing worse.
We have the family leave act, state disability, ss disability, early retirement. Where is the incentive to say “I still have after effects, but I have to get back in the saddle”.

 

Not in this thread? I expose your ridiculous misinformation in every thread in which I respond to you, given that you are 100% wrong and I'm 100% right every single time (about this; when responding to you - I'm not 100% right in all things, but about your misinformation? Yep).

Yes, almost 1 in 2 is right. A study from Ohio State University found 45.8% of cardiac compromise (30.8% of one kind + 15% of another kind) in healthy college athletes that had mild and asymptomatic Covid-19, using cardiac MRI and LGE. I've quoted this study here (with a link) multiple times in my posting history. OK, here, I found it again:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2770645

I know that lay people always go berserk about a paper's self-deprecatory section about its limitations, not realizing that it is good form to ALWAYS have it, and to ALWAYS say that more research is needed, so there was no baseline information, which, sure, is a limitation, but to suppose that one of the healthiest populations on Earth, young college athletes, were likely to have these lesions at baseline, is entirely preposterous. So, obviously it is the virus that caused it, including, in the context of MULTIPLE other studies finding that the virus is directly toxic for the heart.

There was a Scandinavian study that added inflammatory markers to cardiac MRI, in a population of 100 outpatients who recovered from Covid-19 and with the markers they found evidence of cardiac damage in an even higher percentage; if I'm not mistaken, a whooping 74% (mean age of the population studied, again if I'm not mistaken, was about 44). I didn't quote 3 in 4 because while I did post this study here several months ago, I can't find it now.

I only post verifiable statements that can be supported by the medical/scientific literature, unlike you. As a real-life scientist, that's my moto. Look at my signature: "If it's not specific and verifiable, then it's hearsay, imagination, or opinion." So, you don't need to say "Really?" when responding to me.

Yes, this virus has a huge predilection for muscle fibers and for the endothelial wall which then reflects on cardiac perfusion. Not to forget, the massive amount of spike proteins thrown into the whole body by the invasion of the virus (as compared to the tiny tiny amount generated by the mRNA vaccines) has a direct toxic effect in the heart.

Stop saying "side effects" from the virus, please. It again betrays your unfamiliarity with Medicine, although you post your OPINION with professorial airs. A virus doesn't cause "side effects." A medication (or a vaccine) does. Side effects refer to something you give to a patient with a therapeutic goal, which is often achieved, but the medication or vaccine have other undesirable effects in the body, which we call side effects. A pathogen has effects that it causes by the force of its pathogenicity; there is nothing "side" about them.

So, serious effects from the virus that require going to a hospital are not extremely common? LOL, 20% of verifiable infections end up in the hospital. If that's not extremely common in your book, again, you need to go back to math. And while the initial peak of the disease sent to hospitals predominantly the geriatric population, it's been a steady tendency that more and more, we've seen younger Covid-19 patients in hospitals.

Very serious side effects from the vaccines are not "relatively rare" as you recognize. They are EXTREMELY rare, especially to the mRNA ones.

Much less serious or less detectable: yeah, sure. People get site of injection aches, fatigue, fever, body aches, headaches, rashes... who cares? In 48-78 hours these minor side effects go away. It's the price to pay for decent (not 100%) protection against this devastating virus.

We've extensively studied the more serious side effects. Not only they are extremely rare (and they become laughably a drop of water in the ocean as compared to the virus' frequent and devastating effects), but they are not long-term like you anti-vaxxers pretend.

What is worse, getting a couple of days of malaise and fever, or having a life-time of shortness of breath thanks to a fibrotic lung and/or a weakened heart?

 

I've long since tossed out most if not all of your talking points as "**** I don't care about". Buy and wear the vyzr mask if you are so concerned about this thing. If not, then I guess I you really are not that concerned either.

 

Like I said, it is correct that malingerers will exploit everything for financial gain. In my 41 years of experience in Medicine, it is easy to notice that the OVERWHELMING majority of patients are legit, while the percentage of lazy, exploitative malingerers represents a much smaller number than it is assumed by people (especially right-wing people who seem to believe that every disabled American is a lazy moocher). Most disabilities are real, and most disabled Americans feel ashamed and eager to do at least some work. Sure, the lazy moochers do exist but they are a small percentage of the truly disabled people, and there are multiple ways to spot them. An experienced physicians armed with sensitive tests can usually tell if a disability is real or faked.

 

So based off of exactly what you just typed. The vast majority of moochers are lazy. I agree with you.

Thanks for playing.

 

Agree on the cardiac stuff, it is generally a slower process. However anxiety/depression/stress in a body still recovering from an illness, can precipitate something which might otherwise have taken many more years to manifest.

I guess I would just like to see psychiatry included in the bigger picture, in this new problem. I've seen so much post-viral syndrome which was absolutely psychiatric in aetiology (and sometimes with unfortunate consequences when left untreated), that I would not like to dismiss it from Long COVID for reasons of political or other expediency. It's important to address any additional stress in the recovery process.

 

This pro-vaccines information would be valid if the existence of the alleged virus causing the covid-19 pandemic were proven. Otherwise, if the pandemic has other causes (like a toxic cause) then the huge effort and money dedicated to fight the inexistent virus is wasted, and it's high probably that considerably less amount of money had been necessary to fight the pandemic and the disease, and to avoid the possible sequelae too. In fact, we can not rule out that an alternative treatment, like ivermectin or chlorine dioxide, were already curing covid-19 that way.

 

True, but I do think Psychiatry is being included in this. There are countless papers and articles on the psychiatric aspects of this pandemic, and I've read some of them. It's just that given that psychiatry is not my specialty, I don't usually comment on the pandemic from this perspective (still, sometimes I did so here, for example in a post talking about increased incidence of suicides and substance abuse during the pandemic, and I also posted about mental health issues in school children during the pandemic), but of course I uphold and respect that specialty and the help and research that they also provide. Are you a psychiatrist?

 

Please, don't try to disguise it. We know from your posting that you are a full-blown anti-vaxxer, with an agenda. Who do you think you're fooling?

 

What you THINK has no bearing on reality. You're not qualified to understand the issues.

 

Yeah. The politicised ones

 

Time in the game (many years ago, now I'm a part-time public health flunky in a hospital-based speciality with a behavioural component) gave me a broad view of the nature vs nuture thing. Additionally, cross-cultural research in mental health has given me an even better perspective on where we're missing crucial knowledge on 'bio feedback' and neuroplasticity. Everything we're taught is predicated upon First World Western-centric models, which makes it flawed and drastically inadequate science. I hate that about psychiatry.