I perceive the present day form of democracy as nothing resembling democracy. As per brainwashing, mentioned in this thread: http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=332116 The wording is wrong. People are coerced by means of spin doctors, ad agencies, psychologists, out right lies, promises never meant to be made, conning, and scams. Both sides need to spend billions on all of the above in order to get elected. Case in point, not meant to bash Obama by the way…But if you want it in your "coerced arsenal" GO FOR IT ,KNOCK YOURSELF OUT!!! First time out of the gate whilst politicking !!! he used some really disturbing language concerning the free trade agreement, NAFTA, with Canada in order to please some out of work people in some state.. the Canadian government went bonkers and Obama appeared via Canadian media and told everyone to calm down it was just politics and laughed it off saying he was in the middle of an election campaign and not to worry," It was just politics." that should be the beginning of the end of what we know as government leaders in America. The same garbage happens here in Canada, Toronto has alcoholic out of control crack head for a mayor..and his approval ratings are soaring since the admission. This forum is a testament itself to the lack of truth in government on both sides. The present huge divide in America is nothing more than welcomed by both sides. Even though they say we need to work together, they never do anymore. They have huge swaths of the public vehemently protecting and defending their particular party of choice. Divide and conquer , divide and rule. SO!! What exactly drives you to vote at election time? Is it a choice based on truth and openness. Or , simply put,are you being manipulated by billions of dollars being spent on experts to coerce you? If so is this democracy ? Lets put aside the politicians private life, as we are being forced to do in toronto in order to go to bed and feel like some crack head isn't going bust in my doors with his mayoral necklace on..lol… ok bit of a lol there….could not resist…We are living the worst case scenario here in Toronto. but really, lets not look towards the private lives…just the platforms they run on, and what they approve of in the ads we are subjected to across so many mediums these days. What they say they are about to change and do. Is it really what they are about to change and do. their platforms, do they really follow their platforms once elected. interesting the shell game of elections have both sides more concerned about the other side's lies than their own. The side unattached to the other is in a mindset that somehow can see the other's lies and coercion but not their own. Both sides know the other is conning. They both are right, or are they both wrong. lol… why is is then we can still see the other's con but not our side. Is it something they will eventually fix in the future or does the public still own a mind of their own to some degree. THINK!!!!!
As many people have said over the years..............there is a difference. Within this difference, I think there is quality and quantity. Most Democrats, in my opinion, root for the lower class while campaigning, but once they get into office, they realize that the elite class are the ones pulling the strings and its a reason democrat ideas get watered down over the long run and by the time any bill is passed that causes change. Most Republicans, root for the lower class while campaigning. But once they get elected, their stance changes because they were not really moderate in the first place. Superficially, both sides appear to be lying, but I don't think this is the case. I really think that democrats believe their policies are good for the country, its just that, once in office, they realize its going to be very difficult to get them past. I really think the GOP knows their ideas are bad for the country, but they have to lie to sell them to the american public. Democrats change their mind because the elite are pulling the strings. The Republicans change their mind because of chicanery.
Thank you for your honesty. I read your post and only see you in the end helping to support the gist of my thread. a few points. . I feel both sides enjoy the elite , in the end it's one elitist against the other. Elitists are the ones dishing out the billions, on both sides. Labelling one side as Elitist and the other as something other is just once again taking sides. When i first read your post i understood it as you were referring to the Republicans as Elitist and they were always puling the strings and then I realized you designated the elected Democrats as just minions of the elitist. again…this is just what my post is about. you see one side as being swamped by elitist agendas. I see both sides as a war for control between elitist I doubt if they KNOW their ideas are bad for the country. They surely are not some maniacal group hell bent on destruction. I think your are in the middle and are playing with what has been dished out in the media. It's like for you , you see something is afoot, feel and know there is something totally not Kosher, but you use both the other sides definitions and accusations of elitist and chicanery to define your self. Do you still think we live in a Democracy?
i'm trying to see why you would think so. A neighbour of mine today fell into the category of admitting that all politicians lie and will do anything to get voted in, but she explain they all do that… lol… it's like hiding one's head in the sand is a comfort zone when it comes to this.
Democracy was created after the Athenian king Kodros gave his life to save the city from the Dorians , citizens thought that nobody was good enough to replace him so they decided to take decisions collectively . If this wasn't during the ancient dark ages but today the paperwork would demand from the civilians to pick anyone even if he wasn't good enough , even if he was incompetent and even if almost half the population objected to his appointment. My point is that representative systems can never be called democracies , democracy is either direct or non existent .
No, most of the modern world is caught up in Representative Democracy, something quite different. That said, Democracy is nothing virtuous. Power should be with individuals, not the collective majority.
my point is that we vote for what we think a certain individual or party represents but in reality they never represent what they claim to. Hence we end up with no democratic system based in truth, so it eludes the very thing they send soldiers ,in name only , to defend. communism , because your avatar talks of such, has it's own problems of living up to the ideal as well. some say it's impossible to enact, i say it's not impossible but is really really hard to enact.
like i just said people vote for what they think the party is representing and yet i have never in my life seen the party actually live up to what it professed. Power can be had by individuals to some extent in Canada.. There is a fringe one can live on, but true and absolute freedom to choose what one can do with one's own body is limited. It took me oodles of tries in order to get the prescription drugs i so need to be what i am… i'm now happily sedated in all the right places, and yet it was very expensive at one time and illegal for me to be here.. but maybe not such a good thing in the hands of some moron… i like your thinking though, much to be looking forward to…if i don't get banned…lol….
There is no such thing as a democracy in this world,it is just a word thrown out for political purposes.
I think your chances of not getting banned go up exponentially if you don't speculate that you'll be banned I'm of the opinion that given the state, the best system is one of highly decentralized competitive Federalism. A national government should handle disputes impartially between the Federal bodies, they should be to states as states are to individuals. Let these states have more or less complete autonomy over their domestic policy, with the national body being present mainly to enforce agreements between the states, and provide for explicitly established Federal services (to unite state militias under a national banner, etc). Government should operate from the premise that no matter what they do, politicians will be corrupted and individuals will be trampled by the majority. Consequently, the goal of "lesser-of-all-evils-government" should be to create adequate incentives for governments to be good.
The problem is that you are bound by law to your decision while politicians are not bound by anything until the next elections. A good step would be criminal charges to any party / individual that fails to deliver what he/they promised . Of course the final target should always be direct democracy .
an excellent point. i never realized that in Canada and Britain politicians enjoy a sort of get of jail free card for so many things. they cannot be sued for choices made, or anything they say and do regarding government. Also i believe some actual what would be illegal business dealings are not imposed on politicians. recently 3 senators were given two years off..and they stopped talking about it and saying things against the government and certain politicians for they no longer were under this umbrella of protection… then it's the whole diplomatic immunity governments grant one another...
America is a Representative Republic... if it were a Democracy Al Gore would have won back in 2000. As an American living in Canada I am still trying to figure out what Canada is politically. Here is an entertaining yet informative general explanation of how the Government of Canada words. For the Americans, Rick Mercer is basically the Stephen Colbert of Canada. Rick Mercer: Canada Explained [video=youtube;yi1yhp-_x7A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi1yhp-_x7A[/video]
