I'm 20 years old. I just went and bought a beer from my local store. Who would you like to cage? Me, The shopkeeper, Both of us, Neither of us. I frequently purchase alcohol. I love beer, I love scotch. I brew my own beers - about to start an American Wheat beer. I am 20. I'm still young, but I'm old enough to know the consequences of my decisions as much as any other adult, and am clearly able to consent. I am, of course, of the opinion that the drinking age is far too high. [hr][/hr] Oh, and I'm currently living in Australia. Of course, you might not be willing to get involved in Australia's business - that's not really what this poll is about. I'm asking you to make a moral judgment. Forget the law for a moment. Thanks
I guess I would want to deport the person at the convenience store who sells it to you. Next question.
The drinking age in Australia is 18, so why the question. In America, it's about time they put the driving age up to 21 and the drinking age down to 18. Give kids time to learn to drink responsibly before they learn to drive responsibly.
When I was 18 I could drink legally in a state that was a short drive from my home. At 19 I could drink legally in my own state. What I remember clearly and still observe to this day is that some young adults approach alcohol maturely and responsibly. Others do not. Thank you for the invitation to make a moral judgment. Mine is that you fall in that latter category of young adults. Because you did not choose to make a rational and intelligent case for changing the drinking age.
Is it illegal for you to do so? Then you willfully broke the law and thus was wrong. If it wasn't illegal then you wouldn't be wrong. I don't know your country's rules on if the shopkeeper is liable as well. I marked the shopkeeper and you simply because of what I know in the states...though I'm not for anyone to be "caged"...but I think respect for law is important. I'm not sure I label it as a moral judgement---I see those more of social rules. In the U.S---a liquor store owner and their clerks are at great risk if they don't check id's of anyone who looks 40 or younger. The government agents are constantly and consistantly trying to catch liquor stores selling to underage. They will even send in 17 year olds to buy liquor---and if it is sold the clerk goes to jail because they literally broke a law. If a young looking agent goes in and the clerk asks for id and the agent refuses and leaves......the clerk can still get in trouble if they don't call the police. The rules and regulations regarding liquor...especially in my state...is so ridiculous that I don't understand the motivation to own one. But its the law---and respect for the law is key in a society.
Under law both should be punished. I do feel 21 is excessive on the drinking age. If 18 is considered an adult and in some states it is even as low as 16. Everything should be set at the adult age at the federal level, which actually is 16 I think. States will have flexibility to set it higher, but the federal level should be 16, or 18
I kinda feel that if you are old enough to slog the streets of Falluja with a 60# pack on a 115 degree day, you are certainly old enough to drink. That'd be about 19, wouldn't it?
I turned 18 in 1974. The same year they lowered the drinking age to 18. Alice Cooper came out with "Schools Out Forever", and my summer, my friends summer, was a freaking blast! Unfortunately due to a bunch of idiots, the law was quickly changed back to 21. By then I had joined the Army and could drink at the clubs on military bases. There are enough deaths caused by young, irresponsible drivers using cell phones. We don't need to increase the amount of irresponsible drivers by allowing those under 21 to drink. Sorry, but your young dumb butts will just have to wait until you are 21. Period.
The poll is very limited in scope. Directed only at those who want to cage someone. It leaves the impression the pollster is not really looking for opinion.
at 18you're considered old enough to make adult decisions like voting, getting married, drive a car, fly a plane or join the military and kill people, and be held legally responsible for criminal behaviour as an adult....it seems ludicrous to suggest that same person can't make an informed decision whether to drink or not at that same age...
every 20 y/o thinks the same thing...don't worry, when you're 40, you'll start thinking it's too young. - - - Updated - - - 17...and i think it's still 16 for Marines.
The legal age is 18 here. So you think that the law is in itself worth obeying? But surely you think for yourself in some areas - for instance, if the law required that we kill all the Jews. That would, naturally, be a good point to ignore the law. Surely if we apply this sort of independent thinking to the law at large, we arrive at a much less pro-law position. The law might be important for social reasons, but above all else we're responsible to our conscience. You don't want imprisonment, but you don't want it to be legal - what would you propose? That the shopkeeper loses his shop, and I get fined? What does your conscience tell you? That seems absolutely ridiculous to me - caging shopkeepers for selling alcohol to adults. This seems irrelevant to me. The only question of importance is whether or not someone is able to consent. For the sake of argument let's assume that most people under 30 are unable to use alcohol in a way that's not destructive. That's not relevant - if they're developed enough to consent, then the consequences of that voluntary decision are the business of that person. We're trying to decide when people become adults, not when they adopt safe drinking practices. The age at which a person can reasonably consent seems to be around the 16-18 years of age mark. I think Germany has it pretty close to ideal - 14 to drink with a parent in public, 16 to purchase beer and wine, 18 to purchase spirits. Exactly, if you can go to war you should be able to drink beer. Maybe, but most people oppose lowering the drinking age because they're concerned about dire consequences - assaults, rapes, etc. I am not. Ideally I'd like to abolish the drinking age and leave such things in the hands of parents.
Legal consumption of alcohol laws vary from state to state. While in Australia the blanket age is 18, in some states it is legal for minors to consume alcohol in the presence of a parent or guardian, at home for example. From what I believe, a parent can buy a drink for a minor if he or she is eating at a licenced premises. Minors can't legally buy alcohol. New South Wales for example. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_laws_of_Australia The other day a group of us Aussies working in here Laos were discussing alcohol laws in Australia, especially the buying. Here in Laos one can buy alcohol in just about every café and restaurant, corner store, mini mart and service station,, even minors. I'm yet to see anyone staggering around rotten drunk.
Steady my young friend, where the problem lies, at the age of 18 a number of things happen. 18 is considered coming of age, one is legally allowed to make adult decisions, sign a contract, vote etc. It's also when drinking is legally allowed in Australia, and about the age people get their driving licences. A bit of a dangerous mix. I'm all for responsible drinking, but I'm also for the 'demystifying' of alcohol. What I mean by that is, all your young life you are told that alcohol is bad for you (although you've witnessed adults drink). You hit 18 and POW,, a beer is pressed in your hand. No softening up period. "Here son, drink this". See where this is heading? In many southern European countries including France, kids will take a glass of table wine with dinner, often watered down in the company of adults. By the time the kid reaches drinking age, alcohol has been demystified. Countries like Italy, France, Spain, Greece etc don't have the problem with young people binge drinking like Australia. From the age of around 15, both our girls would sometimes take a glass of wine with dinner, at home only. We believe we are responsible parents. I honestly can't ever remember either being rotten drunk or hungover. One is in her late 20s the other in her early 30s.
I am a huge fan of responsibly introducing alcohol to a child in a safe setting. Around the age of 14 I'd allow a small glass of wine with matching foods, maybe a small glass of beer with a steak dinner. Make a big deal about how growing older means you get to make some decisions, but that these decisions have consequences. My parents introduced me to alcohol responsibly, I remember drinking dad's beer when I was young and hating it - then when I got a little older they let me have some baileys on ice every now and then, I liked that. Introducing it rather than making it taboo took away all the draw some teens feel toward it, made it less of a big deal. Consequently, I didn't drink outside the home until I was 17. I felt so bad I told my mum the next morning She was okay with it as long as I didn't let it get out of hand. Felt good that I didn't need to sneak around and stuff. Trust is awesome. [hr][/hr] I support parents who introduce alcohol in such ways, regardless of what the law says. Youth drinking is absolutely a parental problem, not a governmental one.
Sounds pretty much like my upbringing. My dad, now 83 was a beer drinker. Bricklayer by trade, you know what I mean. He would get home early on a Friday, shower and mum would take him to the club. Mum believed he deserved a few beers with his mates after a working week. He would get home around 8.30-9.00, often quite p!ssed. Mum would allow me to stay up until he came home. These were some of the best times with my dad. I've never seen him cranky when drunk,, the opposite actually. He now drinks red wine.
No need for a cage. Tarred & feathered and then burned at the stake, in the middle of the town square. Both of you. Plus, anybody who possibly witnessed the transaction, or made a transaction themselves at the same store that was the scene of the crime, should receive 100 lashes and a 100,000.00 fine.
I think so too.. I was driving by age 16.. At that age, your brain is hardly done developing, and judgement and reasoning, things critical for driving, are the LAST things in your brain to develop. At 16, I crashed within six months. As did many of my piers. My sister crashed the day she got her license. Friends that I rode with would drive about double the speed limit, with no seat belts, thinking they were "cool".. They had zero skill driving (that only comes with experience). But at that age, you don't appreciate your own mortality. It is RIDICULOUS to allow kids to drive. Judgement should be developed by early 20's, but even age 19-21, you may be responsible, but most likely you're still just a kid. It's not till some time between 20-24 roughly that you actually gain proper judgement, usually (although some do sooner), I think states should have both at 21, but to lower the drinking age lower, and mitigate their concerns for doing so, maybe allow 19-year-olds to drink after getting a sticker for their license, which would require a course, where they must learn about things like DUI, alcohol dependency, how it affects your body, how a one-off binge can kill you via alcohol poisoning, etc.
I was taught to drive on a very difficult manual when I was 10 years old - on our 300 acre property. Was a safe environment, learnt a lot - and by the time I was ready to get my own license at 16/17, I was quite a good driver. Naturally you get better with experience, and since then I've noticed I'm much better at parking, checking my mirrors as I drive, etc. To be honest, I think a lot of the rhetoric about young people being bad drivers is retrospective bias. You get better with experience, nobody is denying this - but the question is whether or not you're able to drive to a reasonable standard, not to perfection. Fact is, car accident rates are significantly lower than most people would estimate based on their exposure through news and current affairs programs. Of the 17 million cars registered in Australia in 2012, 1303 fatalities were recorded. That's a rate of 0.007%. For a steel box carrying people at 60+km/h that's a pretty good safety record in my view. Again - parents should take responsibility where possible. Teach your teens to drive from an early age, in a responsible manor. Know someone with a farm? Ask them if you can drive around for a while. When they get a little older, introduce them to faster speeds, maybe take them on a 4 wheel driving trip. It's all about taking away that taboo mentality. Kids who aren't sheltered from real life tend to not go overboard quite as much, because there's not that constant curiosity in the back of their minds.
