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Dutch invent engine that runs of formic acid

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Dutchie, Jul 6, 2017.

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  1. Dutchie

    Dutchie Newly Registered

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    Dutchies (my homecountry) have invented an engine that can run on formic acid. They claim they can produce the fuel for 60 cents a litre, and its entirely environmentally-friendly.

    Native article: http://www.ad.nl/wetenschap/s-werelds-eerste-mierenzuurbus-rijdt-eind-dit-jaar~ac281387/

    BBC article: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40403351

     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
    Dutchie, Jul 6, 2017
    #1
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  2. NullSpot the Destroyter

    NullSpot the Destroyter Well-Known Member

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    Trouble is, you need teeny tiny hands for milking ants.
     
    NullSpot the Destroyter, Jul 6, 2017
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  3. Dutchie

    Dutchie Newly Registered

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    We'll have to hire Trump then
     
    Dutchie, Jul 6, 2017
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  4. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

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    Your title is wrong. There is no new engine - what it is is a new fuel for fuel cells (which use electric motors).
    It is still a huge and interesting development, but the title misleads.
     
    VietVet, Jul 6, 2017
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  5. Dutchie

    Dutchie Newly Registered

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    Arent you kinda arguing over semantics?? The title is correct IMO.
    Did they not invent an engine that runs on formic acid since the fuel cell is part of the engine??
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
    Dutchie, Jul 6, 2017
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  6. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

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    Don't get all defensive, but NO, you are wrong.
    A fuel cell produces electricity. A fuel cell is NOT a motor.
    The electricity produced by the fuel cell powers an electric motor.
    It is an advance in a new fuel to feed the fuel cell.
     
    VietVet, Jul 6, 2017
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  7. Dutchie

    Dutchie Newly Registered

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    I wasnt getting defensive at all.

    In order for the engine to run on formic acid you cannot just use a regular gasoline or electric engine. The entire engine as well as the fuel cell and fuel tank need to be redesigned because the chemical reactions are entirely different (even from hydrogen powered engines).

    For starters the cathodes need to be rebuilt so they can withstand the corrosive effects of formic acid. Trust me when I say its an entirely different engine at the end of the day

    [​IMG]
     
    Dutchie, Jul 6, 2017
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  8. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I suppose when you think about it, electric cars are really lead acid cars. But unlike gasoline engines they keep all of their "emissions" and use electricity to convert them back into lead acid. That's what a battery does.
     
    Steady Pie, Jul 6, 2017
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  9. goody

    goody Banned

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    goody, Jul 7, 2017
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  10. Dutchie

    Dutchie Newly Registered

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    LOL....you mean Dutchies, or are you intentionally trying to be funny?? :-D

    Dutch people invented a lot actually, the microscope, the stock market, capitalism and we also founded large, important geographical parts of your country (assuming you're American)
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
    Dutchie, Jul 7, 2017
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  11. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    You don't understand the technology. This is basically an electric bus powered by a "hydrozine" fuel cell. There is nothing new about the engine, which is simply an electric motor. The new thing is the fuel source which is formic acid ("hydrozine").

    I think this isn't quite the great leap I thought it was initially. My main concern is the energy density of hydrozine versus other fuels.
     
    perdidochas, Jul 7, 2017
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  12. Skruddgemire

    Skruddgemire Well-Known Member

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    In the end...it's still a fuel cell that combines the hydrogen in the fuel with oxygen to produce electricity that the electric motors will use to power the car.

    The only difference that I see with the system is that they have found a safer fuel than straight compressed hydrogen but in trade is that you now have water (both vapor and liquid) and carbon dioxide being released into the atmosphere...which is one of the gases we're looking to reduce.

    A standard hydrogen fuel cell on the other hand has a highly volatile fuel, but only gives off water and water vapor as a byproduct.

    I suppose it's going to have to be studied. Are the Carbon Dioxide levels going to be less than what cars are putting out now? If it is...then it's a good trade off for the less volatile fuel storage problems. If it's the same or worse...then it might be worth it to sort out the storage problems of compressed hydrogen and find a way to fix it so the car doesn't go the way of the Ford Pinto in a collision.
     
    Skruddgemire, Jul 7, 2017
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  13. Dutchie

    Dutchie Newly Registered

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    No, according to them its a closed circuit system where no CO2's are released
     
    Dutchie, Jul 7, 2017
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  14. goody

    goody Banned

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    I'm German Japanese. Thanks.
     
    goody, Jul 7, 2017
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  15. Dutchie

    Dutchie Newly Registered

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    Please read more into the invention, it supposedly is a closed-circuit fuel cell that releases no CO2's
     
    Dutchie, Jul 7, 2017
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  16. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I seems to recall, decade ago Richard Branson used pineapple oil to fuel an engine on one of his airplanes.... it flew, but the public outcry over the use of 150,000 pineapples to power just one engine was huge :D
     
    Dutch, Jul 8, 2017
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  17. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ah, sounds like a Perpetuum Mobile 'tis contraption is! :applause:
     
    Dutch, Jul 8, 2017
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  18. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    Great, looking forward to it. :banana:
     
    Canell, Jul 8, 2017
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  19. wombat

    wombat Well-Known Member

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    Dykes, clogs, windmills, tulips...:)
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017
    wombat, Jul 8, 2017
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  20. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    AFM, Jul 8, 2017
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  21. wombat

    wombat Well-Known Member

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    Trigger alert.
    Cheaper fuel and environmental benefits. If you dont identify with that then you are provocative
     
    wombat, Jul 9, 2017
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  22. Dutchie

    Dutchie Newly Registered

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    He must've been drunk when he posted that, because it makes absolutely no sense what he wrote
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
    Dutchie, Jul 9, 2017
    #22
  23. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Overall it's not proven to be cheaper. And the environmental benefits have also not been shown.
     
    AFM, Jul 9, 2017
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  24. Dutchie

    Dutchie Newly Registered

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    Did you even read the article??
    They can produce the FA for 60 cents a litre, thats twice as cheap as gasoline
     
    Dutchie, Jul 9, 2017
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  25. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Overall costs.
     
    AFM, Jul 9, 2017
    #25
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