And that's fine, however, can you imagine the same response in teh UK? France? Spain? NL? Belgium, Germany, Sweden? I think not. If the EU pushes this agenda they'll be walking into a whole load of trouble. If they get away with it, they'll find the kind of issues that the US currently has, only 10 fold as we are far more complext than America. Vlad, this is not going to happen.
Hard working? You should not jump to conclusions without knowing anything about the country you're talking about. Romanians are hard working. VERY HARD WORKING. But it's a big country (20 million) with several different ethnic groups and lots of tensions - with no social services / legacy of communism. The ethnic group I belong to can be seen in my profile picture and my album and I'm very proud of my own. And my personal looks and accent as an individual made Belgians think I am one of them when I was there. See moron, you talk about superiority and inferiority but a lot of the time you can't distinguish between co-nationals of yours and southern/eastern Europeans. As of 2013 my country has a debt of just 33.9% its GDP. Yours a debt of 101.9% its GDP. Yours is the size of 2 Romanian counties. That is a debt of $45,456.29 per Belgian citizen. You are hard working but the result is nought. All the money your country spends is with a - in front of the number, all the salaries and the services. No, the salaries you get is not from your Belgian tax payers but from the IMF. You are living on deficit and the IMF keeps your social services alive. All your social services and anything that costs money is bought on deficit. At the present moment your country's debt is -------- $484,108,469,945 Mines' debt is ------------------------------------------------$58,655,737,705 And we have a population twice as big as yours. In Romania we have a debt of just $2,738.77 per person. That's almost $3,000. You have one of $45,500 per one person! How will you ever pay that back? You think you ever will? None of the tax payers produce even close to that in tax money. Your debt will be erased like Greece's and so many others. People you can check out the figures yourselves: http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock
Dear Vlad, I'm sorry, but I'm going to post some hard truths. You aren't as nearly European as you think you are. Leffe is right. If I wouldn't be so intelligent wink I'd blame it on idealism, but I think I'm far more idealistic and naive than yourself. You put the finger on the wound yourself, let me quote you: "[...] the ethnic group I belong to [...]" There we have the problem -- this situation can be seen in all of South-Eastern Europe. So, let me paint a picture that is known as "Reality Anno 2013" -- and you are not going to like it. In 2013, the EU basically excists of a strong and prosperous Northen part -- with heavy taxes, extensive social services, the best educated work force in human history. A set of peoples that are at the fore front of human civilization. Literally, we are aiming for the stars. The social contract is centuries old, and civil society is at the centre of it. On the other hand, we have a Southern part -- wanting all the perks of the North without being organized, completely corrupt, without having the economic base to support it. A set of peoples that don't subscribe to the notion that a level of personal sacrifice is needed for the common good. A population not so keen on following rules -- and why would they? The government wasn't there for them in the past. It is a historical thing for sure. Meanwhile, Belgium sits in the centre of Europe, and thus at the centre of the world. We have been so for half a millennium: engaging with our neighbours. Trading with them, studying them, learning their languages and actually making their cultures our own. I might call myself Belgian or Flemish, but I could as easily call myself Dutch, French, German, Danish, Austrian or Swiss. Or yes, even British. I'm sorry but your country, and the entire region, in fact, have basically missed an entire century of human progress. That is not your country's "fault" -- it is just a historical given. Nothing we can do about it. For now, you don't belong to the "the club" -- the latter isn't something "physical", an institution of some sort. No, it is more of an idea -- it is in our minds. And I believe that this reality, is also something that Leffe is trying to point out. Belgium is at the forefront of European integration. We always were, and we will continue to be so. For eternity. And, I'm not as nationalistic as you seem to be. But let me respond to some issues you've raised... Belgium is an economic powerhouse. Not a question about it. If you put BE&NL together -- our economy would be as big as Russia's or India's. Go figure. And we don't have any gas, oil or other riches laying up for grabs. Regarding our debt, this is a problem. And in a good ol' Belgian way -- we are working hard to fix it. The trust of the markets is restored, and we will reach a balanced budget by 2015, and we will build off our debt load for sure. Meanwhile, Belgium is raising money on the financial markets at a negative rate -- meaning, we are getting paid to lend money.
And besides... Belgians are notorious savers... The Belgian people hold the same amount in savings (not in real estate, but in actual money) than our debt load... I'm thinking about "fleeing" with my savings to Germany or Netherlands... 'cuz I'm losing money on my saving because of inflation... interest is higher in other countries...
Everything that is good in the northern regions exists because the south and the east have historically shielded you at their own expense from great Asian & African invasions that messed and kept changing our institutions. It was not voluntary but it was at their own expense. Rather than shielding, a better word would be absorbed the shock wave and you stayed intact. The north was always protected by these two and by the Atlantic in the West and the freezing Arctic regions in the north. Europe on the global map is a patch of land compared to Asia and Africa with the great invasive empires they had while Belgium on my wide screen is a pixel. This cluster of pixels had time to develop as you say only because others spilled blood to non-Europeans like the Mongols, Tatars, Ottomans, both big armies and ceaseless packs of all kinds of nomadic raiders and paid tax to their huge empires. The medieval wars you had there in the north between yourselves in the middle ages were toy wars. Populations of entire states of yours together with women and children did not get close to the size of some Asian armies that invaded us here. Peoples like the Spanish,Polish, Hungarians, Romanians, Bulgarians, Serbians, Greeks, kept fighting and struggling under war and diplomatic pressure on a nonstop basis. You exist because of us. I don't ask you to give us credit because we did it involuntarily. But I ask not to give yourself credit because you prospered involuntarily.
Our minds... I forgot to add something... This shows how many books of European history you read and how much echo of hollowness can come from a European mind. Speaking of 'American' I can confirm that I met Americans who know more European history than you. We didn't entirely miss those centuries and we did make some of the central cultures our own to some extent . One of the ethnic groups that you quoted me about includes Germans who have been here for 500 years. I am 21 and we study together at university. Yet a lot of them left for Germany after 1989. Then for your knowledge, Transylvania, half of today's Romania, was for 200 years politically united with the Habsburg/Austria-Hungary Empire. Regarding Austria we have several big cities here in Romania that are copy-pastes of Austrian towns built by Austrians. You also find here several special purpose Western cathedrals and churches built by German architects. We also had the German Hohenzollern dynasty as our own and also the first queen of Romania was half English. I think our cultural implication in core European affairs is decent enough for a country that for most history bordered the Ottoman Empire. A lot of people today speak German nativly here and Romanian in Germany. One of the former presidents of Germany is born in Romania. Nobel-Prize winning writer Herta Müller is also Romanian born. Also in the more Austrian towns of Romania we have Deutsches Staatstheater (German State Theatre) for the still living here German minorities. You really should read more European history before chanting its unification.
janpor, I have yet another surprise for you. Did I mention that in the old Austrian Empire (before 1804) most of Belgium and half of today's Romania were in the same political union? Belgium too was part of it between 1714 and 1792. Romania was part of it too at the same time. Our ancestors were co-nationals for almost 100 years. What do you say about this? Regarding Transylvania's membership of the Austrian Empire, allow me to correct myself on what I said earlier. I said 200 years but actually if you include the Austrian-Hungarian era of duality it was over 300 years until 1918 when Transylvania and Banat were taken back from defeated Austria and given to one of the Allies, Romania. This is the Austrian Empire in 1859: You can see how much the Austrian Empire bites from the current territory of Romania. Now here you have the evolution of the old Austrian Empire on the music of Johann Strauss II - 'An der schönen blauen Donau' where you can see the period when our countries were under the same monarchy (just like the union that put Scotland and England under the same crown around the same historic time which they still are today): [video=youtube;KyLSUZ1qlVM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpag e&v=KyLSUZ1qlVM[/video] Now tell me my friend, janpor, how does it feel to be a cretin? Oh and about Johann Strauss II......... in case you heard of him.......... do you know where he gave one of his last performances of 'An der schönen blauen Donau' (The Blue Danube)? In Timișoara (DE - Temeswar), the Romanian city where I live. The small opera house where he performed still stands and his visit was marked with a golden inscription in black marble and is still there today.
Uber nationalist Belgians such as janpor will be pissed if you mention french fries and will make it a point to prove they are in fact belgian fries, which should tell you the extent of their contributions. Or they will proudly tell you about being part of some blue banana, when they keep being net receivers of EU funds. Leeches.
... LMAO! Paris,... *tock, tock* Anybody home? Is it really you, Paris? Me? Über-nationalistic? Nobody cares if folks across the Atlantic call fries, "french fries". Only France concerns herself with such... matters of national prestige. And, I find it really fun you remember my "blue banana" post! That was almost two years ago, I believe... Pretty sad you didn't learn anything from it, though...
Janpor, why does your highway system suck arse? Why are you still net receivers of EU funds if you are so industrious? And why is the second tower of the cathedral of Antwerp, your hometown, still not finished after all those centuries? Are you limp?
... What a mistake. We pay about €3.5 billion/year, and receive about €6 billion/year. We get around €2,5 billion more to actually run the entire EU. You know, all those children of all those Eurocrats have to go to school, and they don't go to normal public schools. Were do you think all of those tens of thousands of bureacrats, and their families, go to the hospital and get their medicine? Who pays for all the security, the tens of thousand of manhours when an EU-summit is held for all the roads that are blocked,... Indeed, if you remove the sums that Belgium gets for running the EU -- we are a €1,5 billion net contributor. BTW -- France is a €5 billion net contributor... So, France with a population of 65 million pays around €3.5 billion more than Belgium, with a population of 10 million. If France would be so generous, and industrious, as Belgium -- y'all would have to pay €10 billion a year. Or twice the amount of today... Net receiver... Belgium? Haha! Dude, relatively speaking we pay twice the amount of France.
I only use the high way when I take the bus from the company I work for. It are comfy coaches with nice wooden floors and all other sorts of perks. I'm on Cloud Nine whilst I'm on the high way -- listening to Queen or The Velvet Underground or something... I've been told our high ways suck -- but I guess problems are there to be fixed, Paris. Last I heard, the Flemish government has set up a middle-term plan to fix all the roads, and to improve their maintaince -- the latter being an issue in the past. We even might start charging all the foreigners using our road system, after all -- they are one of the causes of traffic congestion as well... only fair they pay to use our roads.
That would be nice. I wouldn't mind paying for a little more security. As to Our Lady of Antwerp, I must admit that there's something sexy about a one-legged hooker.
Almost as bad as the annual French competition to invent new (proper French) words to replace the English ones which slip into common use.... I'm using my ordinature to write this.... *rolls eyes*, I think you have a complexion about this. Don't worry Paris, this is just a little badonage.
Dear Vlad, ... Nobody is questiong if Romania is a European country, or her place in the EU... I'm just pointing out reality, and you didn't like it. Whilst you are busy being proud of your ethnic group. I suspect German -- because suddenly you are including German words, and you feel the need to translate them for us in English. I guess you didn't know that I speak Dutch, which basically is a language between English and German. Also, I'm now a big fan of the Danish TV series "Borgen" -- and it's fun to recognize a lot of Danish words, and that they are (very) similiar in Dutch! I recommend everyone to watch the political TV-series, it is the talk of the town over here in Belgium... The best show I've probably ever seen... seriously! Very realistic of politics in a small- to medium sized country! English trailer for season 1 [video=youtube;Nw41sTh2mds]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw41sTh2mds[/video] Season 2 [video=youtube;4uKgsYEGI0M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uKgsYEGI0M[/video]
You point out different realities... That's when the reality of the European Union begins to fade. That's when you threaten the very existence of the EU. It's people like you that have always threatened EU fabric. The European Union is here today only because it historically took great care to keep people like you away from itself. Otherwise I don't want to imagine what nigg_ard form of EU we would have, with 1st, 2nd and maybe 3rd rate Europeans! People keep sending questions to NASA asking Where did the Big Bang start? What is the exact point in space where it started? And the scientist replies to you that it didn't start any particular place or point in space: /It started everywhere and expanded out of itself/. Flaw in you is the idea that integration should start in some particular more developed place and be transferred to others, that others should copy-paste some ready-made particular European values and embrace them as a salvation. No. The fundamentals of EU thinking pose the question: 'Why can't each region with its own European values stabilize itself at a level analog to that in others??' Simple. My country is not hundreds of years behind as you learned from the tabloids.It is about 30 years behind. This is thanks to the USSR only. And is closing the gap from year to year. Read on the issue. I would like to ask you... What is this: What centuries old social contract? What central civil society? Haven't you read the 'Little Match Girl'? The reality of recent 19th century Denmark for instance, with hungry rag clothed barefoot children walking in the snow having fled from their troubles at home (alcoholic parents etc) while expensive carts go past with the rich not noticing the children? The iconic image of 19th century London and its streets is one of prostitutes, beggars, alcoholics, looters & vagabonds on every main street. And for sure there were no migrants back then. And again, with luxury carts always going past and living in their own glamorous reality. Iconic stories like Oliver Twist should be hintful of the iconicity of the North-West life and any part of Europe till very recently. No janpor, the whole of Europe including the north were very elitist places with a canyon between the rich and the poor and with a very unstable middle class. Social services and civil society are a 20th century invention. The rich history of Europe is not something to be proud of. It was all a nonsense. A nonsense that after sixteen centuries only arrived in the same place where it started... It started with the collapse of the federal Roman Empire. And now here it arrives at the gates of a new federal Europe. And keep in mind that the Roman Empire, the first European Union as it can be called started from Rome. Rome is south. So? How quickly people forget the pain... Maybe it's evolution that makes us like this. I'm not saying the north isn't the hardest working. It is. And it contributes to progress. But when you look at the developed societies throughout history and you notice when they say 'oh how great am I', that's when the decline of that society begins. You missed again. I am Romanian. I don't know how alienated from core European values my country might be... What I know is that there are four cultural pillars of Europe (Paris, Berlin, Rome and Vienna) and that my home town is a three hours drive from the last while Bucharest is a five hours drive away. Although Bucharest is our official capital, our cultural and spiritual capital is Vienna, also closer geographically. At the end of World War 2 the whole of Europe was a third world place. Tell me what pride is there in having been under intensive care in a hospital called the Marshall Plan? Mine too was included in that plan but Stalin rejected it on our behalf saying that he can take greater care of us. And he did very very much... ... America didn't just rebuilt Europe from scratch. America built a second America on the left side of the Berlin Wall. It was all US money.
