Between 1.5 to 6 million jews died under nazi occupation and the subsequent war. Yet in the United States alone there have been over 52 million unborn babies terminated since 1970! Pro-"choice" Liberals belittle the foetus by claiming it is not worthy of the respect due to all other forms of human life— just like the nazis claimed about the jews! http://www.wickedshepherds.com/AbortionAnAmericanHolocaust.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxou1UADa4E&feature=relmfu Each abortion snuffs out an innocent human life. Perhaps the quickest and easiest way to justify murder is to establish the "non-humanity" of the intended victim. In the abortion industry, this is precisely what is done. Desperate women are glibly told by "health clinic" personnel that abortion procedures simply involve the swift removal of inconsequential body tissue. What these women are not told is that the "potential life" within their womb is a miniature human being, complete with his or her own DNA code, fingerprints, and facial characteristics. Tragically, abortion doctors have been misleading and deceiving the public. Some people say an unborn baby is "a parasite without feeling, thought, or experience; the fetus simply does not have the things required to feel pain..." But nerves are in place by six to eight weeks after conception. The chemicals necessary to send messages over nerve pathways to the brain are present by 12 weeks. Ask yourself - if you were stuck, pinched, grabbed, cut or crushed, how would you react? You likely would squirm, thrash, try to escape or fight. Your blood pressure would go up; your pulse would speed up. That is how pre-born babies respond. Before being cut to pieces, sucked apart, chemically killed, or otherwise abused (to death), these little humans struggle, seeking to escape the destruction. <<<Mod edit: Please post a link to graphic images next time>>>
"But nerves are in place by six to eight weeks after conception. The chemicals necessary to send messages over nerve pathways to the brain are present by 12 weeks." Incorrect. Thalamocortical nerve connections, required for any nerve impulses to reach the higher brain appear only after 22 weeks. Brainwaves in the higher brain, required to any thought to take place, appear after 20 weeks. Before 20 weeks, a fetus is no more sentient than a plant or a braindead human. The video you posted is a blatant propaganda work.
The born dead baby was probably suffering from down syndrome , afaik this can only be detected late so it has to be born dead. It is more humane to abort rather than let such a person grow, i am having a 40 year old with DS living next to me with his very old parents , i am listening to him calling for his mother to wipe his ass at 04:00 in the morning , i would personally prefer to die rather than living like that.
I completely agree. But we are not talking about babies with severe defects here. Euthenizing the retarded was one of the things the nazis got right (and this did not even apply to retarded individuals that had families willing to take care of them, or pay for their care)
They really can't. If pro-lifers were honest, they would have to admit... a) "I believe the unborn are human beings, but I don't know for certain, any more than anyone else throughout history has known." or b) "I don't know if a fetus is a person, but claiming it is, and making abortion illegal keeps women in their place."
Yet in the United States alone there have been over 52 million unborn babies terminated since 1970! You say "yet" like there is a contradiction in values. Please point it out. There are conservatives who are also pro-choice, btw, so I dont see why the "Liberal" description is really accurate. You think it is worth the same respect? Why? ps it isnt "belittling" to say that something is inferior to something else, which a fetus is in respect to self-conscious humans. Where is your evidence that doctors do not inform women that the fetus is not of the human race? Sorry that's just a straight lie. You are correct on that one - they can feel pain. All the more reason to ensure they are drugged so as to be incapable of processing the abortion. That's gross, but so is watching an old guy pee.
These are lower brain and spinal reflexes, it is no evidence of any sentience. People under general anaesthesia and even some already dead people have them, too. Thats why muscle relaxants are used for surgery.
Here are the contents of a trash bag found in a dumster right outside an abortion clinic from the 1960's This is what a saline induced abortion does to the baby: http://www.mccl.org/page.aspx?pid=295
Those are pretty gros photos dude. Aside from posting new photos, could you address the questions here: http://www.politicalforum.com/abortion/250816-foeticide-holocaust-babies.html#post1061298044
Abortion forbiden after 20 weeks in most American states: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/27/us/27abortion.html I am sure that is what the Nazis thought about pictures taken in the concentration camps.
That's a shame. In Victoria its up to birth. I actually feel Victorian law goes to far in that you can be a kid and not have to tell your parents amongst other things. I've written a letter to my local MP about it., Unfortunately she's one in the minority that actually wants to change this little loop holes. No, they probably laugh at them. If you go to the Jewish conspiracy threads on PF you can see them do it yourself, although I'd wager some one of them dont call themselves nazis openly. Going to address my question above now?
As a pro-choice, I applaud this decision. Only a tiny minority of pro-choice "extremists" support late-term abortions, which is basically not really different than murdering a born baby in my book, because it is already similarly developed at that time. Dont associate all of us with them.
I must be an extremist then, to support late term abortion. Its still a fetus, and it is still inside the woman - what has changed to make you think that she shouldn't be allowed to make a choice about her body?
Nearly all anti-abortion propaganda pictures are faked. Fake is a LIE. If you need LIES to make your case, you don't have a case. http://www.lifeandlibertyforwomen.org/truth_about_photos.html A considerable number of anti-abortion visuals feature an almost fully developed fetus. Abortions preformed at this stage via hysterotomy or D&X abortions are rare. Only about 1.5% of abortions are performed at 21-weeks or older, according to according to a 2000 study conducted by the Nation Center for Chronic Disease (CDC) http://civilliberty.about.com/od/abortion/tp/abortionmyths.htm 3. "This is what an abortion looks like." Almost always false. Many abortion protest photographs are artist's renderings or the result of image manipulation, and the bulk of the rest are of very late-term fetuses aborted for emergency medical reasons. The most well-known graphic abortion poster is of a 30-week-old fetus, aborted six full weeks into the third trimester. The vast majority of abortions are performed during the first trimester, and Roe v. Wade only protects first and second trimester abortions.
Once there are brain waves in the cerebral cortex (after 20 weeks), its no longer her body, but a separate person with a mind.
Yeah but so what? It still cant facilitate an interest in being alive until around 28 days after birth.
So what if it can't? Again that's just begging the question - it's no different than me just saying that Megadeth fan has no right to life because his taste in music sucks, and going from there. That's not an argument, it's just begging the question.
Because if it cant we owe it no right to life. But then I would ask why and you'd have to justify it. I can justify my position - you lifers cant. That's what makes me right and you wrong. Indeed, but the argument follows the question, if not then the evident fact the person's position, which is questioned, is unjustifiable.
Thats incorrect. Certainly a newborn infant wants to not be harmed at least from birth. Probably sooner. Unconscious or comatose person also cannot facilitate any interest. Presence of mind, or high possibility of it existing is enough for protection IMHO.
How so? But, how can it "want" anything if it has no mental capacity to even realize it exists? Indeed, but a fetus cant. I totally agree. The problem is the fetus has none of these abilities until roughly 28 days after birth
28 days after birth? Big citation needed. Newborns certainly do have mind, and realize they exist. Fetuses after 22 weeks also most probably have a mind, as evidenced by synchronised brain waves in the cerebral cortex. The only thing we know for sure is that fetuses before 20 weeks do not have a mind, because there is no necessary brain activity in the cortex. Would you agree with killing newborns?
Not really. This is the figure reached by a number of bio-ethicists, including but not limited to Michael Tooley, Peter Singer and Helga Kuhse. I cant find an online source for the figure outside of news articles. Will they suffice? No, they dont. Please provide evidence to this claim. I didnt say they had no mind I said they had no self-awareness and consciousness to constitute a desire to be alive. We also know for certain that a fetus cannot realize it is separate entity until after birth. In principle, yes, however since, as I said, since its only a around 28 weeks a baby gains self-awareness, I think we should limit abortions to before birth. Infanticide is ethically permissible, however.
