Former Israeli soldiers disclose routine mistreatment of Palestinian children

I never said that the Israelis are altruistic.
Jeez, you guys really like to make assumptions based on nothing.
I just said that things are not black and white, and shooting at those that help you proves that.

 

Whence any claim to be "exporting democracy" if it doesn't also include States' rights?

 

You support the mass movement of foreigners into lands against the will of it's traditional owners. Remember, Judaism is a religion not a nationality.

That's plain outright invasion and theft, and the theft occurs on a daily bases. Oh did I say theft, I mean settlement.

 

I dont "remember" such a thing because its not true, there is a religion called Judaism that was invented by a ppl called Israelites>ppl of Judea (the land)>Jews, a Nation, an ethnic group, the nation sticked together thorou all history as you can probably read in your own history books, as a persecuted minority they mostly stayed together.


The settlement started in the 19th century, you mean the land was stolen from the Ottomans? or are you just mixing everything up and dont give a f#ck?, im just trying to understand the level of discussion i can have with you.

 

Im seeing that allot, black and white, that's the mark of fanatic men, could be we are just talking to fanatic Islamists, they speak as if agreeing with you - on anything! -will put a curse on their heads....

I advice to proceed with caution.....


Also, see channel 2 on next Tuesday, Zvi yehezkeli series, did you catch the promo?

 

Im seeing that allot, black and white, that's the mark of fanatic men, could be we are just talking to fanatic Islamists, they speak as if agreeing with you - on anything! -will put a curse on their heads....

I advice to proceed with caution.....


Also, see channel 2 on next Tuesday, Zvi yehezkeli series, did you catch the promo?

 

I believe US foreign policy in the Middle East is to mediocre for our form of Capitalism where our elected representatives are getting wealthier, but their solutions are more mediocre. Why is it that our own elected representatives keep giving Capitalism a bad name by coming up with such mediocre solutions when we should be getting the best solutions money can buy in our political-economy that resorts to Capitalism?

 

H'm me thinks you failed history.

The movement and plans began in the 19th century … but the "Settlement" began in 1948

 

Lwet me start by sayin g I agree this voilence has to stop ASAP, I speak against it right now in fact I always did,

You are wrong by thinking this is Zionism objective, in your report you compleatly disregarded what happened since 46 till 2012,

Ill go back a bit, i said there were no relocation when Jews built this country since the 19th century till 46, what happend next was the result of war, you cant win a war by retreating so natuarly if you win you gain land, as the report said "no clear territorial separation of Jews and Arabs by large contiguous areas”, you chase the defeated out because he lives right next to you..., some surrendered and stayed thou its not black and white here either.


Zionism today is hardly alive, Arabs call it instead of refering to Israel, a word they can hardly pronanuce, you picked up on that but that doesnt mean anything to us, what you see now in Gaza and the west bank is the face of 60 years of conflict with a defeted army but not a defaeted ppl, they never backed down and never accepted Israel since then till today, the militants perfected terrorism and many keep the dream of kicking the Jews away, we dont want to be kicked away so we fight....


Gaza gets bombed while West bank is not, why is that do you think?, I know for certain and im one of the Israelis that support a Palestinian state- that as long as Hamas continuous to preach Israel will hget destroyed with the support of Iran - we cant have peace, would you retreat to a man that tells you right to your face he is going to kill you?

 

I didnt fail history, i liked it very much actually,

unless we speak of two different things, the building of settlements, the early pioneer work that included drying the swamps in the North etc' started in the 19th centuary, in 46 the "Yishuv" (Jewish settelment) was pretty developed,

If you meant the settlements in the west bank that started after 67.

see this movie from 1913 (during the Ottomans), you can see the early settlements of Jewish town, clearly the work there started in the 19th centuary

[video=youtube;EA23mF86fv8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA23mF86fv8[/video]

You'll find Jaffa, Tel Aviv, Haderam ,Zichron and in the other part of the film other Jewish settlements already existed.

 

I haven't disregarded anything. It is undeniable that the indigenous Semitic Arab population in Palestine was an overwhelming majority demographically and regarding land ownership as of 1947.

That's simply not accurate. The suggestion that Jews built Israel from the 19th Century until 1946 is not true. Surely, there were Jews in Palestine during that time, but they were a minority both in population and in land ownership. You are suggesting, here, that Jews have a right to Israel/Palestine because they built the country. That just isn't true.

War was the intent when the powers that be created the state of Israel. Conflict was the goal, and it predictably worked. This is not to say that there is no merit in the desire for the Jewish people to have a geographical home. That was not, however, the reason that the international community allowed the establishment of Israel. It was allowed because they know how to use such situations to foster conflict. Conflict makes states dependent upon the financial establishment to finance armament. This makes the national government beholden to interests that exist beyond the scope of that government. It's been the playbook for centuries. The Israeli people are being used just as the Americans, British, French, German, Greek, etc., etc., etc.

The notion that the Zionist regime in Israel has to keep the boot heal of oppression on the necks of the civilian Palestinian population in order to keep from being run out of Israel is nonsense.

Because Gaza is on the sea and borders a major nation state in the area (Egypt) and therefore has more chance to create a competing nation state to Israel if allowed to be independent. Also, the West Bank is targeted by the Zionists for settlement expansion, so it is more prudent for them to build their wall, set up their check points, and slowly expand settlements to squeeze the West Bank into submission.

I don't have anything at all against the Jewish people. In fact I married a Jewish person. I have many Jewish friends. My daughter and step children are part Jewish. My issue is with the big state fascism that Zionism promotes and the initiation of violent force that is the end result.

This thread topic is about IDF soldiers abusing Palestinian children, as reported by former IDF soldiers. If I were a Jew in Israel I would be utterly outraged that my government was committing such acts in my name. There is no excuse for such vile, inhumane treatment of people, let alone children. It is also detrimental to the Israeli people who are forced to serve in a military that is so systemically dehumanizing to both the oppressed and the oppressors.

 

Agreed. Neither side WANTS peace. I think they are both more than happy to keep killing each other.

 

Saw the promo - looks really interesting.

 

I would suggest that the majority of both the Israeli Jews and the Palestinian Semitic Arabs want peace. The powers that manipulate the ruling authority on both sides, however, have a vested interest in maintaining conflict.

 

Aye ..... the cowards are brave when the kids are unarmed.

But you saw that the children frightened the first IDF soldier....... they're low lives every one and all cowards everyone!

Regards
Highlander

 

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/08/30/258970/israel-nam-summit-stain-on-humanity/

Just because I thought his head would revolve! 666!

Regards
Highlander

 

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/08/30/258970/israel-nam-summit-stain-on-humanity/

Just because I thought his head would revolve! 666!

Regards
Highlander

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sok0oU8R-uU&feature=related

Information from 1998 ..... at least he told you idiots!

Regards
Highlander

 

Maybe. But at the same time, if EITHER government tried to put together a real peace agreement, their citizens would both go crazy and declare their government "weak" for caving in or something like that.

I dont think the isreali people would accept a peace settlement either. They both want peace, but only on THIER terms.

 

Sure they want peace, the devil is in the details though, the majority of "Palestinian Semitic Arabs" want the kind of peace that has no Israel on the map. Even those Palestinians who do accept a two-state solution still refuse to give up "the right of return" which will in essence create two arab states in place of Israel.

On the other hand, the overwhelming majority of Israelis would gladly accept a two-state solution, especially if they could trust the future generations of Arabs and their leaders to actually keep their end of the bargain (which is quite a stretch in light of how Egypt having reaped the benefits for 30+ years, is now trying to renege on the peace agreement,).

 

This is untrue, as proven by a recent poll by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research. According to their data, only 25.5% of Palestinians believe that the two-state solution should be abandoned, where as 52.0% oppose abandoning the two-state solution, and 16.6% of Palestinians "certainly oppose" abandoning a two-state solution (other answers included; certainly support: 3.8%; and N/A: 2.1). This means the vast majority of Palestinians still support the two-state solution. Furthermore, the poll shows that only 30.4% support a one-state solution, and 5.3% "certainly support" a one-state solution, where as 41.6% oppose a one-state solution, and 19.4% "certainly oppose" a one-state solution.

You based your claim off of no actual data, as just proven.

Why should the Arabs give up their right to return? The Jews too believe they had a right to "return", regardless if it is 2,000+ years.

You say this as if Israel has never violated any of its agreements or obligations.......

 

The majority of all people want peace. The notion that the Semitic Arabs in Palestine only want peace with a map that does not include Israel is the propaganda put forth by the global military industrial complex. Big business wants war. The global financial establishment wants conflict. I am certain that the overwhelming majority of Palestinians wouldn't care about the existence of Israel if it didn't effect their daily lives. Wars are waged by the ruling establishment. They are waged to the advantage of the few while the poor and working classes are the ones who pay for it with lives and taxes.

The nation states are nothing but a means for the ruling elite to monopolize violent force and maintain a level of control over the masses. They foster war and conflict on order to justify their monopolization of violence as a means of protecting us. The largest purveyors of violence, however, are the nation states. Therefore, the only answer is to resist the violence waged by the nation states in the name of protecting the people that they rule over.

 

a token return may be possible, but there isn't much to return to. Villages are gone, where their houses stood, shopping malls and residential developments now stand.

this idea of return is never really articulated deeper than its an inalienable right of the palestinians. I can see the importance to the palestinian peoplle of acknowledging this right, but I can't see exactly what they expect should happen and I have yet to find any palestinian or peace maker who has actually defined an implementable plan for such.

Okay, so how does "return" work?

What would happen if the house/farm no longer exists? Having a key to a house that no longer exists is of little use. How many could return? Would they pledge allegiance to Israel? would they take compensation instead? How do you process a million or two people (most of whom have never set foot in Israel) and integrate them into a modern society? How do you settle disputes when paperwork is sketchy? Who houses and feeds these people during the years long process?

 

Here is the benevolent obligation that we belierve in...



Video - Rambam Hospital Responds to PA Request to Help Palestinian Man with
Parkinson's
Haifa, 29 August 2012

See the story on YouTube: http://youtu.be/TPJPQnzuFNw


RAMBAM MAKES (BRAIN) WAVES
Rambam Medical Center
Public Affairs and Spokesman
David Ratner, Director

Through a joint effort of Rambam Medical Center and the Palestinian
Authority, a West Bank resident severely disabled by Parkinson's disease
received Deep Brain Stimulation therapy

This month, a 51-year-old Palestinian resident of the West Bank came to
Rambam Medical Center for Deep Brain Stimulation (DBS) therapy in a
successful bid to control the disabling symptoms of Parkinson's disease.

Tarik Sadek Abu Baker, an accountant by profession, developed an aggressive
case of early onset Parkinson's disease at age 39. Twelve years down the
line, he had stopped responding to Parkinsonian medications. On his behalf,
the Palestinian Authority turned to the Movement Disorders Center at Rambam,
directed by Senior Neurologist Dr. Ilana Schlesinger.

Deep Brain Stimulation therapy to correct movement disorders was pioneered
by French neurosurgeon Prof. Alim-Louis Benabid in 1987 and has been
available to the medical community since approximately 1999. It has been
available in Israel since 2003 and at Rambam since 2008. The surgery
involves implanting two electrode-equipped leads in the brain and two
battery operated neurostimulators in the chest.

The Movement Disorders Center at Rambam has treated approximately 25 DBS
patients over the past 4 years and has quietly made a name for itself
throughout the Middle East, with inquiries reaching Dr. Schlesinger from as
far afield as Iran.

Nurse Ilana Erikh, who coordinates the Movement Disorders Center, remembers
initially evaluating the suitability of Mr. Abu Baker for the treatment. The
evaluation requires overnight hospitalization and withdrawal of Parkinsonian
medications in order to determine which movements a Parkinson's patient can
perform without the drugs.

"I had never seen a patient that bad," she recalls. "He could barely move or
talk because of severe rigidity and tremors. It hurt me to see so young a
person entirely disabled and trembling, who couldn't do anything without
assistance. He obviously needed extraordinary measures."

In June, Prof. Menashe Zaaroor, Director of the Department of Neurosurgery,
implanted the leads and neurostimulators. Three weeks later, the patient
reported again to Dr. Schlesinger. She and her team members, Neurologist Dr.
Maria Nassar and Nurse Erikh, switched on the neurostimulators' batteries
and calibrated the voltage. Within an hour of stepping into the clinic, the
patient was a new man. He could walk and move freely. He had no visible
signs of his disease. Neither medications nor DBS therapy can cure
Parkinson's disease; they can only address the symptoms – but those symptoms
or their absence make the difference between severe disability and good
quality of life.

"[Mr. Abu Baker] went from being a very sick man to being a healthy man,"
Ms. Erikh says. "I'm happy for him because he has the emotional strength to
enjoy what he has received and use it for personal good. I'm happy for all
our patients who regain their independence and can return to doing simple
day-to-day activities."

The patient’s wife, Ginan Salim Abu Baker: “We have received warm
consideration at Rambam, and we were made very happy last week because my
husband, who has needed me to help him with personal hygiene, eating, and
preparing for sleep, has improved and doesn’t need my assistance anymore. We
didn’t expect such quick results.”

# # #

Photographs are available upon request from Rambam Assistant Spokesperson
Dganit Kenig at 04-8542718, 050-2063363 or d_kenig@rambam.health.gov.il

--------------------------------------------
IMRA - Independent Media Review and AnalysisWebsite: www.imra.org.il

 

Does this excuse Palestinian efforts to kill Israeli school children?

Both sides of this nasty, bloody conflict have it in their power to end it. If the Palestinians feel mistreated by Israel (and I feel that they indeed have been), they should cease hostilities, stand down, make peace and appeal to the rest of the world for justice. They won't have it by means of terrorism and war.