French government begins cracking down on terrorism, civil rights threatened

I am not sure what that was. An Islamic terrorist? It seems an anomaly despite the effect on them and their loved ones.

Who is encouraging this hatred do you believe. From what I have heard you have a lot of problems with the far right in France. Generation Identity and others and within that certainly on the videos I watched it looked like Ms Le Pen was in with them. It suggested she was doing this somewhat behind the curtains. Is that what you are talking about or what?

You haven't given any examples of anyone being threatened in their private lives - just of the ones killed by a terrorist. If you have more examples please give them. It sounds like you do have a problem. The important thing for everyone is that this is resolved by looking at the root of the problem and resolving it.

Oh! So you have both the far left and the far right radicalised in France. My tv broke or I am sure I would have been receiving a lot of relevant information on what is going on. Please tell me more.

I don't know what our numbers are.

 

I think it would be fairer to say that is what we would expect in a potentially failing democracy.

I think giving them pay rises and a good pension plan was definately that. How do you see this being so?

 

I put in a search for France - Far left Radicalised and got this!

 

French government begins cracking down on terrorism, civil rights threatened

 

I don't care, I'm not in the US!
And nothing in your post change the fact that the French police has an history of abusing people. That's history! Deal with it and own it!

 

Yes.

The far left obviously.

Police is also facing a huge amount of violence, right now, it's the evening and I have other things to do to search for articles. From my private life, yes I have one example of a police officer whose wife was threatened because of the job of her husband.
I don't know what the fairest solution between police officers not being threatened, and the respect of private life of those police officers.

That is correct.

I almost never heard any relevant informations on TV.

 

No it does not suppose all members of the democracy are law abiding. That has never been the situation anywhere we have knowledge of. It is a very important thing in Western Liberal Democracies. That is why we are forever having enquiries into institutional racism in the Met or people complaining after a march that the police were OTT and this being looked into and from that the police acting in a manner which will still leave them acceptable to most people. The police start kettling people. People complain. It is looked into. It seems to be an on going thing but the police have to have at the very least the acceptance of the people. They have to act in a way which the people believe goes along with their norms because if they do not, eventually the people will tell them to **** off. If people get so angry with the police that it is them they are targeting then there clearly is a problem. Very little will be achieved by simply saying you are not allowed to photo or video the police doing the things you don't like. That will just make people more angry. They need to look into it and see what the problem is. Only when that is done can they work on changing it.

A Democracy where a large segment of people feel the police are the enemy will turn against them. That in itself could lead to civil war. Hence again you need to know why this is happening. Without that you do not have the ability to sort it and the situation will probably get worse.

I don't know why you assume that having no police is the only alternative and that vigilantism would be the only way to cope with such a situation.

You can choose to believe that what is happening in France is like the Animal Rights Protestors but you have absolutely nothing to base such thinking on. You are simply taking a view against people, both press and civilians, who are protesting making it illegal to video the police, deciding it is all their own fault and they are all criminals when you have absolutely nothing to base this on......and why in a Democracy the actions of the Police must be acceptable to the majority of the people is because that opens the door to revolt against them. That is why I am saying it is necessary as we usually do in this country to keep an eye on what they are up to and to make changes when necessary. I consider the exact same is necessary in France. People do not get upset over nothing. There is always a reason and you need to find out who the people are who feel like this and why. They may have very good reason. That is what it is essential France do - not just threaten people with jail if they take photos of the Police misbehaving.

enforcing the rights and privileges of a free democracy rings with today but not with a free democracy. The people used to work to make sure they are not taken away from them. As you do not know what is going on in France how do you know that is not what the people are doing?

There is no point making suggestions on what you believe is going on which as easily could come out of the person wishing to destroy democracy. You cannot when something is wrong just decide it is the civilians who are in the wrong. That is in reality how rights are removed. What must be done is to find out the real reason for the problems and set that right - other wise be happy living under authoritarianism.

 

I was accidentally economic with the truth in that. I still have a tv. I am not getting much information from that tv. It was my smart tv which broke. On that I get youtube. It soon finds out what my interests are and provides me with a selection of things which it believes will be of interest to me. You can find out about just about everything on youtube these days and as you find a bit of information which interests you, go a bit deeper into it. That is where I think I would have been able to find out needed information on this easily. It does not work the same for me trying to find that information on my computer one reason possibly being that for whatever reason it is much more relaxing and audible on tv.

 

That guy does look like he was really beaten up and according to the video on the link that is something of a norm by the police in France - hence why people are so concerned being told they cannot film it.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1334231362258276360

 

It's just the average far left media propaganda. Obviously they won't mention the ludicrous rise of violence against the police by their antifa allies.

 

With all due respect VoltreAltesse, you didn't give me any sources about your 'far left' and though I did a search I did not find anything relevent about them. I did hear a few bad things about the left wing politician whose name also begins with M but nothing about any far left in particular.

I really would be interested if you could provide me with any information about any genuine far left in France - I am guessing they would be communist or something. That term now is used towards anyone who does not agree to the far right and I know personally a lot of the people who are called Far left who are not only not, but are definately on the right!! It's just an intended insult now.

You provided no evidence of this and my search for French civilians beating up police only returned results of French Police beating up French civilians. That usually can be safely taken as a sign that French civilians beating up the police is not something which is seen in any way as something which needs to be addressed. There may have been one or two. I think you provided one example. Possibly that was the only one.

I think that France is a country where there is possibly a different psychology to the UK and particularly because of that I am aware that I don't really know very much about France. I know Macron was intent on bringing neo liberalism proper to France just at the time we know it is failing. I believe in Social Democracy which is left wing but not far left. I also strongly believe in giving people as much automy as possible which I think is the position of social Democracy or Democratic socialism nowadays. This is about making the workplace democratic. I think Democracy has died under neo liberalism and belive that capitalism can only coexit with democracy when firm restrictions are put on it - or you get the situation you have today where everyone is on a downward spiral except for a tiny few who are in a position to pretty much rule the world.

You may have far left in France but you are going to have to provide me sources. I can though tell you how Far Right comes in. Apart from the few it comes in when a country is failing as all are at the moment with neo liberalism and when the people of that country are scared as I think a lot of people are in France due to the terrorism you have experienced. However the likelihood of someone dying of terrorism in France is beyond tiny compared to the number of people France has killed abroad. Studies showed that it is this sort of situation which allow people to stir up these people into hatred of the other and support of the far right. They found people who were moved this way most of the time were regular citizens who were fairly easy going about other people but get a situation when they felt afraid and that very fear was what led them to want a strong man (in France possibly woman) who would be prepared to go against the norms of society even to the point of, if necessary killing others (think Putin) to keep his position. It uses their fear and studies have shown that for whatever reason people drawn to the far right get afraid more easily than more 'liberal' people.

That video suggested there was more than enough reason for the people of France to be able to take photos of the police in order to get them charged if necessary and to put them off from acting in this way in case they are filmed and charged. Both the EU and the UN are very concerned about what France is up to here. It has nothing to do with any far left.

As you will know they are going to come up with a mark 2. We shall see whether that is any good.

 

@alexa Violence against police doubled in France in 15 years
https://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-f...e-la-police-ont-double-en-quinze-ans-20201115

A police center attacked with fireworks in Champigny Sur Marne :
https://www.rfi.fr/fr/france/20201011-france-commissariat-police-attaqué-mortier-d-artifice

Antifa trying to burn alive two police officers :


I already mentionned the number of police killed by the police and number of police officer killed, that are both around 25, the number of people killed by the Police reported to the global population is riduculously low, especially compared to the USA.

The french police has its problem, and by the way there are people inside it that aren't worth to represent the french state and the french police, there was also the problem of what kind of equipment have been used that has led to many gilets jaune to loose eyesight (most of gilets jaune are white people btw). But there is not that much a problem.

All of that is done by medias for two reasons : first the medias are the base of an americanized/pro EU elite that hate France, basically they try to imitate americans on everything and they want to import everything that happen in the USA in France. They want to erase our culture to make France basically a form of new california.
Furthermore, there was a huge rise of violence in France for a few years, so they want to scapegoat the Police to hide the security problem.

 

Ok I have checked that one out and it says 63 Police Stations have apparently been attacked this year to 15th November

Then there is a picture of a policeman on the ground who apparently had been injured by a pavement

Les violences contre la police ont doublé en quinze ans (lefigaro.fr)


This was all of the rest I could get

To be frank though I got that translated I dont know what it is saying.

So at the end of the bit I could read it says

Though it certainly suggests an increase in injuries, without going into them in any way it hasn't given me one example of a Police Officer being killed.

Police Centres are not human beings being killed. It says that about 40 people attacked a police station but no one was hurt and later they say that the tried to arrest someone and the police Officers had to use a 'grenade' to escape a crowd. Do your Police carry grenades to use on civilians?

It still looks like No police have been killed or injured - the police station yes, but not people.

This is interesting

So first they believe they are not respected. I have spoken about that in this thread. That is in fact something that always has a reason. Whatever that reason is it needs to be found and sorted. Obviously reasearch would need to go in to see what people's feelings are to the police from different groups, what they really think about them and why. I know there is and has been for some time VoltreAltesse a rise in the far right in France. I am not saying this is what is going on but in situations where there is a rise in the far right, it is not uncommon for the police to become more agressive - supported of course by the far right and because of that blaming the 'far' left.

I think it is interesting in the quote above that they believe there could be reasons to kill the police, although not one police being killed has been mentioned in this article. Why would they believe a person could kill a police officer if they had a valid reason? Do they possibly think that they would have the right to kill a civilian if they believed they had a valid reason. There is no excuse for killing another human being except genuine self defence. No one has been reported killed so this talking about people wanting to kill the police without even any examples sounds to me like Propaganda, trying to get the reader to believe this is happening, according to you by the 'far left'.

Ah they do eventually get to Police being killed. It is apparently only a few days since two plain clothes police officers were shot. Are these the two you have mentioned. I would have thought they would need to find out why they were shot before coming to any conclusions.

They are cross about not having impunity for racism

It is interesting that a significant number of police usually get involved in the far right. In Greece they supported Golden Dawn and in the US very much Trump. Not all of them of course but usually a significant number can be moved that way when it is rising.

What makes you think it is Antifa? Trump did the same, blamed everything on them. They have no history of such things. They are more than happy to meet and fight with whoever they have reason to believe are the far right in order to protect those the far right are after but I have never heard of anything like this. It just is not their style and they unlike the far right to the best of my knowledge have never killed anyone.

But still there is only evidence of 2 Plain clothes police being shot. That certainly sounds like a deliberate killing, might even have been planned but it would be necessary to know a lot more about it and it certainly is no reason to suggest the public in general are wanting to kill the police. Police occasionally do get killed in the line of duty but you have only provided evidence of two being murdered. That in no way is evidence that anyone never mind any far left are intent on killing the police. There does seem to be some police complaining about injuries when working, I would have thought that was par for the course in that job.

You do though seem to have evidence of a fair number of attacks on Police stations. I am not sure I have ever heard of that here so possibly you do have some problems with the police not being acceptable to some people. Again you need to do research into it and sort it out. There is no point in just blaiming it on the other side of the political spectrum. It needs proper research and whatever is leading to this being resolved.

Holy Moses!! First I hear of them throwing grenades at the people and now they are making people lose their eyesight! I am beginning to see reasons why people might not be too kean on them.

I would have thought that your elites would be in toe with them. Ours are. We all seem to be having probems with our media at the moment. In the US for instance there used to be 50 independent sources of news - now there are five. - even monopolies in the 'Free' Press. Frankly I think what you are experiencing here is neo liberalism and the consequence of a system which makes the world extremely unequal, lowering the standard of living for all but the Super Rich. They then manage to get some to believe that the problems lie in 'the other', 'the Muslim' maybe or 'the far left'. They have always been against the left - just the genuine left, no need for any far.

So there I agree basically with what you are saying and I believe all of us really are experiencing it. I just feel the problem is with the system, neo liberalism, not the immigrant. By trying to make people believe it is the immigrant they are able to continue destroying your standards and way of living.

Not sure what you are talking about here.

 

This above

should have been 'Political elites'.

 

I support France's crackdown on radical Muslims.

 

ACHIEVEMENT!

Rightward tilt? You are being kind.

You forget that the French are a Latin-people. Which means what? A lotta good things. But, one helluva bad attribute.

They get upset very quickly because far too many of the major Latin-countries are tired of political mischief. And it has been aplenty during the worst-ever plague to have reached Europe. The previous "Covid" (called SARS) did not make it out of China. (And it took only 3/4 years to contain it - see here).

But, let's face it. Political Mischief is a legacy of the Roman Empire when it was rife. It has existed ever since in one form or another. The Allies whipped the Nazis and set about teaching the French about Real Democracy. The French responded with their "version" of it!

The French around me are clearly confusing the person to blame. Anyway, they MUST blame somebody because that is their nature.

MY POINT

With this plague, the world is its workplace - and let's not forget an historic achievement. This is THE first-time in history that we humans have (1) subsisted a plague that zoomed its way around the world in only 3/4-months and (2) we had the means to decipher its structure and create an antidote in only 10 months!

That achievement is NOT being hailed as much as it should be ... !

PS: Macron is doing the best he can in a Latin-country. I make that distinction because the Latins of the south (France, Spain, Portugal & Italy) do not behave like the non-Latins of northern Europe. And, believe me, there are PLENTY of northern-Europeans who seek to spend their retirement in the south of Europe. Life is more casual and there is the Sun-Sun-Sun in the south, far more so than in northern Europe.