The British need to **** or go along with us. British interference in EU integration is getting too much -- the time is coming closer to decide if you're with us, or against us! Well, sort of speak -- we'll always love you, but you need your act together. The Age of Britain is long over. Group of five calls for EU military headquarters By Andrew Rettman Typical British trashtalk -- always are, and always will, the lapdogs of Americans. Raus!
Jan that would be a bridge way too far there is no way it is ever going to happen and I would love to see how they would justify it within the current EU treaties.
Under Lisbon it's entirely possible -- a multi-speed Europe is in the works on all sorts of fields. Federalism is the only answer!
Read the article again, it perfectly is able for European countries to launch a project on their own. This is the so-called "multi-speed-Europe". The European patent is a great example -- this was achieved under the Belgian Presidency btw. It has been in the works for about 20 (!) years -- but the Italians and the Spanish blocked it because they wanted the patent to be translated into Spanish and Italian as well, besides the "bigger languages" of German, French and English. Wikipedia has an article over the "Enchanced Co-operation" (= multi-speed-Europe): Belgium has a chocolat army, sort of speak. No, we've got a great army, but it only is about 35,000 man in size. The future is an EU-army for sure!
Don't worry. The British government is just playing to the gallery like it always does. It will comply. It isn't against you. The British people aren't against you either. We just don't want to be governed by the EU. We're treaty bound to be EU lapdogs; we are under no obligation to be America's.
Eh..you don't even nearly speak for "the British people" and plenty of us are against the EU and have no intention of being bound to that useless heap of bureaucrats for any longer than is absolutely necessary. Janpor, dear, as you well know, the EU needs to ****. It is the EU whose time is over, not UK. It's crumbling and disintegrating below your feet.
In this great socialist giveaway that the SNP proposes, how will it stop lots of people coming from outside Scotland to enjoy these benefits? Free movement of people and all that?
Sigh...you ask that of the SNP which is currently charging English students a small fortune to study up here. Which has made sure we don't pay for medicines as English people have to. Has...it is not a given that Scotland would take up EU membership. It is a given though that Scottish politicians are currently running rings around English politicians. I am fairly confident any issue you can see, will be foreseen by the SNP. But we don't have anything like the scale of immigration problems the south seems to have. People immigrate in here, but they seem to assimilate more. We are actually not served by UK immigration policy. Our population is decreasing and we are looking for people to come here and boost it. Anyway, the first thing to do is rebuild Hadrian's wall and keep you lot out (assuming you are English).
It's difficult to know what Alex Salmond really wants. A couple of years ago he wanted Scotland to join the euro, then earlier this year he wanted Scotland to have more influence in the EU, now he's not sure whether he wants EU membership at all, EFTA membership might be preferred. Maybe he's just keeping everyone guessing! I hope Scotland has its referendum sooner rather than later. If Scotland votes to leave the union, apart from anything else it will make a socialist government less likely in England. And you're welcome to large numbers of the immigrants from England. We are running out of space for them and most of them do choose England rather than Scotland. Maybe that's down to the slightly warmer weather down here. I don't know. Yes, I'm English. My daughter is at a uni in Scotland and her father and me visit her occasionally. Is that ok with you? (She still pays less in tuition fees than she would if she'd been at an English uni, though of course more than EU students who, like the Scots, pay nothing.) We've found almost everyone we've met to be very hospitable, with good natured Scots/English banter all round. Maybe the great Socialist giveaway will encourage more immigration and if it does, we'll rebuild Hadrian's Wall ourselves. And it's no surprise that Scottish politicians have got a better deal for Scotland (free personal care for the elderly is something else that costs a small fortune here in England) than the English get. Most of the politicians elected to Westminster are self-serving (*)(*)(*)(*)s and they've already racked up taxes, and increased the national debt to staggering proportions, without delivering noticeably better public services. You do remember Gordon Brown, our recent Scottish PM, who is quite well known for did so much to send the country into its downwards spiral, whilst claiming to have saved the world's financial system? I thought I heard something about a new oil field discovery off Shetland or Orkney yesterday. Do you know anything about it?
It's not difficult to know what he wants, the best for his country is the answer. As to the Euro, it's not exactly the same Euro people were considering a couple of years ago, is it. No, you're all right. The people who make their way directly from outwith UK are fine for us. He won't have the referendum until the end of his term. The people are cautious. They will only vote for it if more power is devolved and its proven beyond doubt that works for us and not against us. I suppose if you're paying to get in, it's all right. What socialist giveaway? Is it real or in your head? Is the current government managing the economy and putting us all into clover then... ....Gordon Brown was no, not responsible for the world economic crash. I thought I heard something about a new oil field discovery off Shetland or Orkney yesterday. Do you know anything about it?[/QUOTE] No, no, please tell all your English friends there is definitely no more oil in Scotland.
Viv, any fool knew this crisis was coming, and Alex Salmond is no fool. As with any politician ... watch his hands. With your declining population, I wouldn't have thought you could afford to be choosy, but whatever. I thought it was cut and dried? You're voting for a separation from the UK aren't you? What powers will not be devolved? Do you even know what the referendum question will be yet? I'm not paying to get in. My daughter does pay her tuition fees (which she'll get free on your separation from the UK) assuming Scotland is not an Eu member. The socialist giveaway is clearly laid out in the SNP manifesto. Have you read it? Do you want examples? Didn't say he was. He did however claim to have save the world from the financial crisis (probably a slip of the tongue!) and the UK debt did massively increase under his leadership and our children and grandchildren will be paying it off. Thanks, Gordon! Viv, it was a genuine question, but never mind. There aren't masses of people in England who are opposed to Scotland breaking away, most people I know are indifferent and those that aren't actively want to separate. I doubt that would change even if you sit on Saudi levels of oil! It's the Scots you need to convince, not the English who won't have a vote in the referendum anyway.
Janpor - **** with all these anti-British rants. This subforum is full of them and it's getting on my tits. The UK has all the rights (as any EU country has) to not enter into some kind of elitist controlled EU state. And I say this as a supporter of the EU. I will not support any further integration until the very monent when the EU clearly states their end goal. Why would I? The EU elites refuse to say clearly where they want this to end - probably as it's "as far as possible". It reminds me of the EU constitution debarcle. They drafted it, then all EU leaders got together prior to ratification so they could agree the text of an easily readable explaination, which would be given to all 450M of us. BUT, they could not agree what the intent of the document was. Their course of action? Forget the document (yes that's right, the document for the PEOPLE) and proceed anyway. The EU should be about the free passage of good and services (including people). End.
Federalism has been an unmitigated disaster in Belgium. Come back to us when you've your own house in order. The south is poor, the north is wealthy, you've no government, the sides dislike each other. Fail. And you want to proceed with EU unification? Feck off!
There is not enough direct democracy in the EU for a joined military. It's bad enough as it is atm, without making matters worse.
What would be the point? Most European militaries are set up to operate within NATO. Creating an EU army would be redundant. It's likely the European politicians supporting this simply want to undermine NATO and have more clout. Replacing NATO would be rather stupid though since it couldn't include the U.S., which is absolutely vital to western power projection. Europe on its own is NOT capable of organizing, equipping, deploying, and supplying a large multinational force for use whereever it's needed. The recent Libya conflict and Europe's heavy reliance on the U.S. for Command and Control, logistics, and reconssiance shows this. Many European countries rely on NATO assets to carry out operations. Most of the most vital ones (like AWACS) are U.S. assets. If Europe only wishes to establish a defensive force then by all means, get rid of NATO. However, Europe will quickly become a non-factor in terms of political clout in the rest of the world because they will have a very limited abiltiy intercede overseas, be it war or humanitarian relief.
Hello? Connect the dots will you? Because of USA's new doctrine ("Leading From Behind") we must have our own HQ's to do what we want when we want. What Libya has showed is that we are too reliant on the USA. => This makes is a non-(f)actor already. Stop beating your American drum, please.
Open up your European eyes. The U.S. would love for Europe to develop some independence in overseas operations. We're tired of having to carry the load....even when a conflict is on your own continent (Balkans). This new proposal won't really do this, it's a political reorganization. If you guys began purchasing the neccessary equipment, logistics, and command and control abilities then I'd take it more seriously. It's just a way for the European political elite to try and assert control away from NATO/member states. Why do you think the UK is so against is?
