Hamas has attacked Israel

This is precisely one of the real concerns, that anyone should have had, in this situation: Israel acting as if the random killing of its own civilians, justifies indiscriminate killing, on its part. They heard or saw an explosion at the security fence with Lebanon, so they just blow up anyone they see, near the fence. There is no way to paint this killing of innocent journalists, and anyone else who just happens to be in the wrong place, at the wrong time, as necessary, warranted, or excusable.

 

Bibi's easy don't mess with him he won't kick your Ass Hamas messed with him big time now they and there supporters are about to get there asses kicked big time.

All of them.

 

Fratracide happens in war too.

 

Breaking newa a warning of potential violence is not a warning of an airborne attack and few thousand incoming rockets.

 

I doubt these savages carried dead bodies into Gaza.

Bodies of missing Israelis were found during the raid in Gaza

Israeli bodies were located during a raid on Gaza carried out by forces under the command of the 7th Armoured Brigade, on Friday night.

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-768211

 

Egypt warned Israel a few times and claims to have been ignored.
Israel, to its demise, admitted ignoring their intelligence pointing to an attack the night before.
ISRAEL has the most advanced intel technology probably in the world.

About that unprotected border on 10/7.

'One update from September 28 warned, based on multiple streams of intelligence, that the terror group Hamas was poised to escalate rocket-attacks across the border. An October 5 wire from the CIA warned generally of the increasing possibility of violence by Hamas. Then, on October 6, the day before the attack, US officials circulated reporting from Israel indicating unusual activity by Hamas — indications that are now clear: an attack was imminent.

 

@garyd
The statistic with which you begin your post, here, is false:

garyd said: ↑
58% of Palestinians voted for Hamas so yeah they had something to do with it. And a lot of them were cheering for it. You lay down with dog you run the risk of getting up with fleas. Moral of story don't vote for rabid dogs when animal control comes you might get caught in the cross fire assuming the dogs don't eat you first.


I wonder, since I had used that 58% number several times, if you may have gotten it from me, but misunderstood that this 2021 number was an estimate of Palestinian support of Hamas, based on polling (which may have been rather limited), not an election result. In fact, without looking more deeply into the methodology used, one need question if-- akin to any polling of Russian citizen support of Putin-- some Palestinians may have been afraid to risk being discovered to not support Hamas.

The election in Gaza, in 2006, in which Hamas came to power, was the last election in Gaza. They'd won that election, 17 years ago, with 44.5%, as compared to 41.5% for the Fatah party. If Hamas is not allowing elections, it seems reasonable to believe that they are not within the power of the people to control-- rather than your assuming that Hamas has the full poulation's unqualified support.

 

I don’t think we have the right leadership as we run risk of a world war. During WW2 we had Roosevelt as president and Patton, Eisenhower, macarthur in charge of military.

today we have 80 year old biden who undoubtedly lacks the energy, sharpness to be in firm command. We have an even worse vice president who can’t even control the southern border. As head of military, we have two black men. Now Lloyd Austin and Charles Brown seem legit but given Biden’s tendency to execute on affirmative action/DE&I policies you wonder if these two are there because they are the best of the best or their skin color. I hope to god they are the best of the best.

 

Damn frightening how alike Netanyahu and Trump are.
2 Indicities whose legacies are shot to ****.

Analysis |
'Netanyahu Is on Brand: No Responsibility, No Accountability, No Remorse'

On Thursday, Benjamin Netanyahu took his zero-responsibility-always-share-the-blame attitude to a new level by forming a “temporary war cabinet.” In any other case it would be the right thing to do - for him, it's just another way to make sure there is someone else to blame for the Gaza war failures

The sense of contrition and lucid Mea Culpas already heard in the IDF do not exist in Benjamin Netanyahu’s world. These ideas do not apply to him. As far as he is concerned it’s all someone else’s fault. It always is.

The worst day in Israel’s history just occurred, over 1,200 Israelis were killed, the military malfunctioned and civilians were exposed to savage terrorists, but it has nothing to do with him, a self-ordained expert on terrorism. Presumably, the fault lies with the IDF Chief of the General Staff, Lt. General Herzl Halevi and with General Security Service (The Shin Bet) head Ronen Bar. "They messed-up," his parrots are already briefing.


The intelligence wasn’t there, the IDF didn’t perform, no one alerted him, pro-democracy protests weakened Israel, it’s all about Iran. This of course has absolutely nothing to do with him. A tragic fiasco of epic proportions that included lax preparedness, slow response, initial ineptness against Hamas, indifference to tens of thousands of shocked Israelis, a dysfunctional government incompetently and blatantly betraying its most sacred role - security - and Netanyahu is not involved. He would never contemplate resignation. That requires an ethical code that he never had. He just needs a political escape plan.'

https://archive.ph/lD6C5

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...-remorse/0000018b-288d-d450-a3af-699d263a0000

 

Yet, it is greatly discouraged-- not simply shrugged off, with a, "what can you do?"

 

"Israel is manufacturing a case for genocide"

'Calling Saturday’s Hamas attack ‘Israel’s 9/11’ will only help the fanatical Israeli government unleash armageddon on the region.'

• 
  Marwan Bishara
  Senior political analyst at Al Jazeera.

snip:

'Like a well-rehearsed orchestra, Western powers condemned the “unprovoked” attacks on civilians and voiced their unconditional support for the fanatical Israeli government to do whatever it takes as long as it takes to “defend” its people against “evil”.

The degree of hysteria and the hypocrisy are as mind-boggling, as they are reckless.

Some of the images from Israel are no doubt gruesome – but the images from Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen, Libya, etc have been no less horrific. Two decades of Western and Israeli wars in the Middle East have led to not thousands, but millions of Arab and Palestinian casualties

In the eyes of the West, it seems, Israel has a “duty” to defend its people, but the Palestinians don’t have the right to protect themselves as if they are people of a lesser god! Israel seemingly also has a right to defend and even expand its occupation and apartheid regime, but the Palestinians have no right to express their frustration or struggle for freedom and justice after seven decades of dispossession, oppression and siege.

For European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, “Russia’s attacks against civilian infrastructure, especially electricity, are war crimes. Cutting off men, women, children of water, electricity … are acts of pure terror.” But Israel doing the same against Palestinians in Gaza is legitimate self-defense! That’s the very embodiment of hypocrisy and double standard.'


cont:
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/10/12/israel-is-manufacturing-a-case-for-genocide

 

Opinions
'Netanyahu is drawing the US into war with Iran'

'The Israeli prime minister’s persistent obsession with the Islamic Republic may finally drag the US into another disastrous regional war.'

• 
  Marwan Bishara
  Senior political analyst at Al Jazeera.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu addresses the 78th United Nations General Assembly at the UN headquarters in New York on September 22, 2023 [File: Reuters/Mike Segar]


Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has spent the past three decades sounding the alarm about Iran’s nuclear programme and threatening to attack the country on countless occasions. Most recently in September, he said in a speech to the United Nations General Assembly that Tehran must face a “credible nuclear threat” before his office corrected the record to “credible military threat”.

After Hamas’s attack on October 7, Netanyahu may finally be able to act on his threats. The gruesome scenes in southern Israel have provided the Israeli prime minister with the necessary pretext and international backing for a wider response.

Netanyahu has both a political and a personal stake in all this. A drawn-out regional conflict would block or at least postpone any official accountability for his utter failure to prevent Hamas’s attack from happening in the first place and could also put his multiple indictments on corruption charges on an indefinite hold.'

cont:
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/10/9/netanyahu-is-drawing-the-us-into-war-with-iran

 

Rocket attacks are why Iron dome was made no one said anything about paragliders.

 

'From hubris to humiliation: The 10 hours that shocked Israel'

'The Palestinian blitzkrieg is a military failure and a political catastrophe for Israel of colossal proportions.'

• 
  Marwan Bishara
  Senior political analyst at Al Jazeera

'A few days after Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu delivered a boastful speech at the United Nations, announcing the establishment of a new Middle East centred around Israel and its new Arab partners, the Palestinians, whom he totally omitted from his fantasy regional map, dealt him and Israel a fatal blow, politically and strategically.

The Palestinian resistance movement Hamas launched a meticulously planned, well-executed lightning incursion from Gaza into Israel, by air, sea and land. In tandem with thousands of missiles fired towards Israeli targets, hundreds of Palestinian fighters attacked Israeli military and civilian areas in the southern part of the country, which led to the killing of at least 100 Israelis and the capture of dozens of Israeli soldiers and civilians as hostages.

Hamas’s objectives in the operation are no secret: First, retaliate and punish Israel for its occupation, oppression, illegal settlement, and desecration of Palestinian religious symbols, especially Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem; second, take aim at Arab normalisation with Israel that embraces its apartheid regime in the region; and lastly, secure another prisoner exchange in order to get as many Palestinian political prisoners released from Israeli jails as possible.

It is worth recalling that Hamas’s leader in the Gaza Strip, Yahya al-Sinwar, who spent more than two decades in Israeli prison, was released in a prisoner exchange. Mohammed Deif, the head of Hamas military arm, like many other Palestinians, lost loved ones to Israeli violence – an infant son, a three-year-old daughter and his wife. Therefore, there is also a clearly a punitive and vengeful aspect to the operation.'

cont:
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/...-humiliation-the-10-hours-that-shocked-israel

 

Are you freaking serious? lol

 

cont:

"In that sense, the attack may have been incredibly shocking, but it was hardly surprising.

Hubris has finally caught up with Israel and its arrogant leaders, who long thought themselves invincible and repeatedly underestimated their enemies. Since the “surprise” Arab attack of October 1973, successive Israeli leaders have been shocked and awed, again and again, by what the people they oppressed have been capable of.


They were caught unprepared by the Lebanese resistance after the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982, by the Palestinian Intifadas in the 1980s and the 2000s, and by the Palestinian resistance after more than five decades of Israeli occupation and four successive wars on Gaza.

Clearly, the Israeli military and civilian leadership also did not expect Hamas’s massive operation, its success representing a major Israeli intelligence and military failure. Despite Israel’s sophisticated network of spies, drones, and surveillance technology, it could not detect and preempt the attack.

But the damage done to Israel goes beyond the intelligence and military flop; it is also a political and psychological catastrophe. The invincible state has shown itself vulnerable, weak, and terribly impotent, which will not go down well for its plans to be a regional leader of a new Middle East.

Images of Israelis fleeing their homes and towns in fear will be ingrained in their collective memory for many years to come. Today was probably the worst day in Israel’s history. An utter humiliation.'

 

So polling shows majority support they beat Fatah so Yeah they are still in it. And Hamas is going to get a lot of Palestinians killed because it is what they do. So Israel does what it can to avoid collateral damage Hamas does what it can to cause them. And you blame Israel.

 

Show me something some one said about a damn air assault. Other than by missle. Which hamas does every couple of years.for the last few decades.

 

Yes it is greatly discouraged and it still happens.

 

Jan 23,2023

'Palestine: Unite or die'
'Against a pyromaniac Israeli government, Palestinians need their leaders to unite, not repeat empty slogans.'

'A new fanatical Israeli government is putting the old flailing Palestinian leadership to the test — and this could be its final test. How it responds will determine the future of Palestine, Israel and the entire Middle East.

The coalition of religious Zionist and far-right parties now in power in Israel rejects Palestinian statehood and claims exclusive right to all of historic Palestine. It tramples over past agreements as it prepares to annex much of the occupied West Bank, which makes up the backbone of a prospective Palestinian state.


cont:
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/1/6/palestine-unite-or-die

 

Will you look at this. You can protest in front of the home of a Supreme Court Justice by not Schumer's.

Dozens of protesters demanding US end Israel aid arrested outside Schumer’s NYC home

https://nypost.com/2023/10/13/dozens-demanding-us-end-israel-aid-arrested-outside-schumers-nyc-home/

 

To be fair, Hamas has agency. And being a low life, scum terror organization has given Israel the green light to do what they have to do to clear that gutter trash out.

What's sad is that of all the surrounding Muslim nations...NONE are willing to take in Gaza civilians.

 

No-- you assume a lot of things, falsely. If Israel "does what it can, to avoid collateral damage," then I would not blame them at all, for eliminating Hamas. What would ever give you such a cockamamie idea, as that I would blame them? I'd never said anything remotely like that, or expressed any sympathy whatsoever, for HAMAS. Rather-- since you clearly are not interested in reading up on the opinions of those, upon whom you hand out your judgement-- my concern has been with Israel NOT doing all that it can, to eliminate "collateral damage."

To that point, just before your answer here, I had posted in this thread about the worrisome sign of Israel erroneously targeting and killing journalists with a missile! That had not been a display of their showing a high degree of care; it had shown, in fact, not only incredible negligence, but even a disregard for collateral lives lost. And your reply, to that post, had been:

garyd said: ↑
Fratracide happens in war too.
<End Quote & Post>

It happens a lot MORE, when a side shoots at anything that randomly comes in their sights. FYI, this is not doing what Israel can, to avoid unnecessary deaths.


Here is the 4-1-1: Hamas cannot defeat the Israeli military. There is no mystery here, as to which military force is going to ultimately triumph. Hamas, are basically fish in a Gaza barrel, albeit with some rock castles to hide in. Therefore, there is no urgently impelling need, for a speedy victory. Hence, there is no excuse for reckless endangerment of anyone, who is not part of Hamas.

 

So Palestinians can request asylum in neighboring countries and they have to be accepted, right?

 

Do you forget that the position, of all of those surrounding Muslim nations, is that the Palestinians are entitled to land, within the territory currently administered by Israel? To remove them from the area, essentially eliminates any hope of realizing this long delayed settling of any land claim. There is not even any guarantee that any who leave Gaza, will be allowed by Israel, to return (which is Egypt's reason for not accepting, even "temporarily," two million refugees from Gaza).

So, I see, you have not increased your deplorable level of understanding of this issue, upon which you opine so freely, and with such an air of confidence, in your ridiculous sounding thoughts. As I have just explained to Garyd, there is no need for a rush, in the massively destructive part of this operation-- there is zero possibility of Hamas defeating the Israeli military, if the IDF doesn't first crush Hamas. The only urgency, would be in regard to saving hostages; and those operations do not involve flattening buildings, or unceasing missile barrages.

The U.N. has warned of an impending humanitarian disaster, if Israel goes into a major ground assault, tomorrow-- in fact, if it does not pause to allow in aid organizations, food, and restore services. The cutting off of these, has only been hurting the citizens, not Hamas, who was prepared for this, with generators and a hoard of fuel and food.


<Google Snip>
The United Nations and other organisations warned of a disaster if so many people were forced to flee, and said the siege of the enclave should be lifted to let in aid. The situation in Gaza has reached a "a dangerous new low", U.N. Secretary General Antonio Guterres said on Friday.
8 hours ago

https://www.reuters.com › world
'Only the beginning' says Netanyahu as Israel makes first raids into Gaza | Reuters
<End Snip>


These millions cannot just run out into the desert, or wherever. There are many infants and children involved, as well as the elderly. Israel's ample warnings of its strikes, in which I had initially found solace, are not all that helpful, to people who have no place to go.

If sympathy for those who are unnecessarily dying & suffering, has no sway on you, perhaps you should think about this: Hamas had probably understood what the scale of Israel's response, to this attack, would be. The interesting theory I have heard, which is well worth considering, is that Israel's emotional, over the top reaction, was part of the terrorist's plan.

Consider our own 9-11. We initially had all the world supporting us-- getting the expression of sympathy from even Mid East nations. Then we responded militarily; which we then expanded; which before we were through, had not only further demonized us, in the eyes of many in the Near and Middle East, but had even put off many of our friends.

There was both great international concern, and even charges, stemming from both our apparent use of radioactive weapons against Fallujah, as well as our treatment of prisoners, in Gitmo. We essentially took a tragedy that brought us goodwill, and used that goodwill to create an even worse image of the U.S.

Could all the images that will be captured of suffering Palestinian people, not possibly have been the ultimate end, desired by this attack-- to depict Israelis as being heartless killers, who assign no value to Arab lives? Sure, over a thousand Israelis were killed-- but if Israel goes full commando mode, how many innocent Palestinians, among the 2 million in Gaza, will there be, to outweigh that, in world opinion?