Hiroshima’s fate, 70 years ago this week, must not be forgotten

According to some of the Pro-Putin members here Russia and the Soviet Leadership are/were ANGELS! LOL!!

But the best way a person can tell what other Nations that were apart of the Soviet Union thought of Russia is how they all want to join NATO!!

After all it's not like NATO was asking them to join they just all LINED UP TO JOIN!!

And after watching Putin and Russia annex the Crimea....well now we all know why.

AboveAlpha

 

Yes I am an unconditional surrender "guru" and it is very interesting that you are for sure telling that in case of Nazi Germany it was valid and the only option ... but Japan of course not. You know that THIS demand for unconditional surrender of both was demanded by all allies including Stalin and that it was for ALL 3 the goal?

Interesting that you and others are splitting and questioning now this with bla bla bla reasons due to Hiroshima and Nagasaki only. If both cities were conventional bombed to ruins with same number of victims, you would have not even take care about ... or do you take care of Tokyo bombing?

 

You bring up an interesting point.

Now the U.S. Military made a DEAL with the Soviet Union that both the United States and the CCCP would enter Berlin together at the same time.

The U.S. Military could of and SHOULD HAVE entered Berlin when it was able to as the U.S. Military had to WAIT for several weeks....I cannot remember the exact amount of time but it is known that it was in the 17 to 20 day period and perhaps a bit more.

It is also a FACT that German's wanted to surrender to the U.S. and Allies in the West rather than surrender to the Soviet's and there were mass surrenders toward the west at the very end of the war even though many indoctrinated NAZI's still fought on.

It is believed that had AMERICAN MILITARY FORCES entered Berlin at least several weeks before the Soviet's did that the INCREDIBLY VICIOUS AND DESTRUCTIVE BATTLE OF EAST BERLIN which was door to door, building to building....street to street BLOODY....and resulted in the deaths of Civilian's and Soldier's alike.

The Soviet's were not taking Prisoners and the German's knew this and thus fought to the very end.

I believe if American and Allied Forces not waited for the Soviet's then the mass slaughter could have been prevented as for the Soviet's.....THIS WAS PAYBACK TIME!!! And given the numbered in the Millions of Russian's killed by the Nazi's I can understand.

But what if the U.S. just went into Berlin first?

AboveAlpha

 

I think also if Stalin had an atomic bomb, he wouldn't dump it in 1945 when results of war were predetermined. It was the dictator, but not silly and self - favorite hero, it wouldn't begin to bomb because could understand that the international community would condemn the USSR - Stalin in an easy victory thanks to atomic weapons.

For him it was important - glory as strong soldier - hero. Besides it destroyed enemies of the people, not important or others. But simple people, not important what (Germans, Poles etc.) which welcomed its and Soviet system (in fight against rich - exploiters) it wouldn't destroy nuclear bombardment - the whole cities where there were hundreds of thousands or millions of simple people. He didn't do racial fight and racial contempt for other people at him wasn't as at Hitler or Churchill.
Churchill 100% would bomb any country if it had an atomic bomb and at the beginning of war and at the end. He despised other nations and dreamed of eternal domination - great Britain.

ps: Winston Churchill: "The plan "Inconceivable" is a desire to erase Moscow, Stalingrad, Kiev from the world map …

 

Stalin did not have to make a decission over whether to Invade an Entire Nation of People who fully intended to fight on til the very last man, woman and child were dead!!!

The FACT is that if the United States had to invade Mainland Japan....and we had already invaded and taken Okinawa which is tiny by comparison with the rest of Japan and the taking of Okinawa which cost the lives of 20,195 U.S. Soldiers and Sailors and Airmen and wounded 55,162 others.

The Japanese death tolls were massive as about 110,000 Japanese Soldiers were killed and close to 150,000 Japanese Civilian's many who committed suicide.

150,000 Civilian's were almost 1/2 of the total population of Okinawa and most of these deaths were either civilian's attempting to attack U.S. Forces, Civilian Suicides....or Japanese Army Soldies committing suicides with Cililians.

Just IMAGINE what the death tolls would have been on the Main Islands of Japan!!

AboveAlpha

 

Do you have stong opinion that people's votes does not matter?

 

I would have had no problem with the Crimea Legally establishing a referendum to first vote if they wanted to suceede from the Ukraine using the Ukrainian Constitutional mechanisms....but that is not what happened.

AboveAlpha

 

I would have had no problem with Turchinov or modern Ukrainian goverment if they replaced Yanukovich by using the Ukrainian Constitutional mechanisms. But if country is ruled by the junta then Crimea has rights to secede

 

Stalin was able to destroy whole Kwantung army.

 

Didn't they try before Maidan? Oh wait ... they demonstrated peaceful for the first and Ukrainian Police beat then their constitutional right (*)(*)(*)(*) out of them as reaction ...
What was reason to demonstrate on Maidan? Because being unpleased with the end of negotiations with EU and the forcing from Russia to accept will of Moscow with their internal "Ex-USSR republic contracts" and the threat to have a very cold next winter without gas from Gazprom if saying No to Putin.
Well ... you name the current government Junta ... but the bloody regime of Russian vassals before who deny constitutional rights as legally in force of course!

I say nothing about occupation of Crimean Peninsula by Russia, because that this was part of Ukraine still after USSR time was due to fact that the "Kink of Vodka" Yelzin was too drunken to realize and tell that it is again part of Russia as it was before all the time since being conquered from the Ottoman Empire in the past.

 

There are several legal ways : 1) new elections, 2) impeachment by the goverment 3) death of the president 4) retirement of the president.

All other ways are illegal in terms of Ukrainian Constitutional mechanisms. And does not matter that some peoples are unpleased by delaying of negotiations with EU. They'll be able to elect new president who will change the rules.
That all.

 

Yes he was ... but this was in 1945 an easy task to do! On paper there were about 600,000 Japanese soldiers in this army, but the best units and most of their heavy equipment or modern weapons were put off from them to fight US Forces in pacific! In August 1945 these 600,000 men were not more as a better armed militia of bad quality! And on red Army side? Well trained and battle hardened Forces from fight against Germany ... even in all haste transferred fro Europe to Asia.

Stop ... before you come now with the issue of 1939 when they got a defeat against Siberian Army and other forces: Yes, there was a better Force as in 1945 on Japanese side ... but not very well equipped too in comparison to Red Army ... for example number of tanks and artillery. But I will not make the victory of Red Army here lesser as it was, because it was important and a real victory! It produces an agreement between Japan and Ussr not to attack each other after it, what gave USSR the back free to fight invading Nazis and Japan to fight in China more powerful, as well to transfer Forces to fight US and allies.

 

Hiroshima was in 1945 as well.

 

OK ...

1) new elections? How please when any demand ended in face of Police Forces beating you for demand or being arrested if telling loud enough?
2) Impeachment by government? Lol ... the regime impeaches itself for sure!
3) death of president? I'm pretty sure that he was not deadly ill ... and any sort of assassination is for sure constitutional way!
4) Retirement of president? Didn't he retire because Maidan at least? And where is he now by the way in moment?

Sorry, to back the Rebellion of Donbass with the Maidan as reason is lame ... and so let me ask you, why did rebels not make this way you tell here? because Junta of Kiev how you call them?
You must finally accept that Yanukovych and his vassal regime were bastards and the only way to get away bastards most peaceful is to make an uprising with demonstrations and to react on police violence!

 

Yep ... and where were the rest of Elite units of Kwantung Army left? In Japan to face US invasion ... because Japan thought that Stalin held worth as they did before when Hitler attacked USSR and they did not enter Siberia!
And don't deny that the rests of Elite units were not in Japan mainland, because you must only take a look on the Japanese units defending Okinawa and from where they did come!

 

I would agree that if the Ukraine Government did not follow it's own Constitution and allow the Crimea to LEGALLY establish a referendum vote to secede then...yes...the Crimea would have a right to form it's own referendum.

But in this case that is not what happened.

No legal attempt was made by the Crimea to establish a referendum and first the Crimea would have to first establish a regional referendum on whether or not to attempt to establish a Ukrainian Constitutional method referendum to sucede.

Say if Massachusetts wanted to sucede from the U.S. it would first have to gather enough signatures to establish a question on a State Referendum that would ask Massachusetts Citizen's if they wanted to present the legal paperwork to the U.S. Congress to allow a referendum in Massachusetts to sucede.

So after a certain number of signatures allows the creation of a Question on a ballot that asks....Are you in favor of establishing a referendum whether or not to sucede from the Union?

If the people of Massachusetts vote yes....then the Massachusetts Legislature would have their state Senators and Congressmen to establish a referendum on the Federal level to sucede.

If the people vote no then no attempt would be made.

In the Crimea none of this was done.

AboveAlpha

 

I told hundred times to you and once again I will repeat, the countries want, and earlier wanted to join the EU - because there more money ! Nobody interesting about NATO which ruled from the U.S.
Ukraine too wanted in the EU and some European leaders - propagandists shouted - welcome Ukrainians but as now all know, NATO can't place their army in Ukraine. Europeans answer Ukrainians, we can't let you in the EU yet, you must wait... you aren't necessary to us, to us is necessary - our army in your territory.

And all watching how Putin and Russia
save the Crimea from deceivers of the USA who made bloody revolution in Ukraine...

 

I know that if you ask the people in all these former Soviet states why they applied to join NATO they will tell you because they wanted to make certain that Russia would not attempt to annex them just like it has the Crimea.

AboveAlpha

 

Thanks to skillful Soviet command, it turned out to make it easily. But if it was done by Americans, for them the problem would be to battle to Japanese in well strengthened, defensive (for many years), and difficult for the passable district of the Far East. It is why the western allies also agreed that it is better if the Soviet army is at war there...

 

I also showed you the link as the first east countries entered (after collapse of the USSR) in NATO, nothing personal, simply wanted to have the general economic union with rich West - the European countries.

PS. these east countries got under influence of the USSR, by agreement the countries of the allies who won war earlier...

heads of the main allied powers: prime minister of Great Britain Winston Churchill, U.S. President F. Roosevelt and Prime Minister of the USSR marshal of the USSR Stalin.

Two main questions were considered: definition of further destiny of the countries freed from the nazi occupation and the countries still to this day occupied by Hitlerites. And also the question of establishment of a post-war order in the world was raised.

Coped with both tasks excellent. A number of important questions was in passing solved. It is no negotiations with nazi Germany, only unconditional surrender. Germany has to be occupied and divided into four occupational zones. It has to pay reparations to the winner countries. Nazi criminals have to appear before the International tribunal.

The speech also went about return of the occupied earth of France. In Norway, Denmark, Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg, Greece the pre-war governments have to come back. It was talked and of Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Romania, association of Czechoslovakia. Poland Should return to borders of 1919, etc. more than 20 questions are considered.

Entry into structure of the USSR of all territories which entered in 1939-1941 was recognized: republics of Baltic, territories of the Western Ukraine and Belarus, Bessarabia, Bukovina, Karelia. We too need to remember it.

 

Same practice police use in EU and US. No difference. May be protesters first learn to be polite and less agressive? May be they first learn to not seize a square with tents? Look at Occupy Wall Street.

Why? May be you would rather learn how was increasing in average income during Yanukovich's time first?

 

That is what exactly happened because at that time at Kiev there was a junta headed by Turchinov, but not legal goverment.

 

They could not prevent invasion of joint USA/USSR forces. Amount is matter.

 

Lol ... nice mix of apples and bananas you make here! Make a peaceful demonstration in EU or US and you can even tell that current government is corrupt or tell that we should ally with Russia and go out of NATO ... and you can do.
Make a demonstration in Kiev under Yanukovych and telling the same, you have to be lucky not to be arrested and / or being beaten by police in the face!

Yes, income of Yanukovych increased much ... we all saw his private palace build by tax money of Ukraine and what he got as salary from Moscow to do what they tell.

 

Is that peaceful demonstration?


Am I right that you think that if someone has beaten by police then Molotov cocktail is now legal???