Iowa class BB, they don't build them like that today

We need to advance deflector technology.

 

Nonsense, and lots of it.

 

A shaped charge can be rendered ineffective by a 5mm plate of mild steel, or even chicken wire.

 

Yeah, yeah and I can fly. Next.

- - - Updated - - -

Yep, just alter the standoff distance and you're in the money.

 

Hell, you do not even have to penetrate the hull at all, simply compromise it.

Killing submarines under water is actually childsplay. You do not even have to have your weapon touch the ship at all, just setting off an explosion close by is enough to rupture the hull and sink it. The very idea of the Depth Charge from WWII was very effective. And these weapons were effective to within 10 meters in most cases. And remember, these were the much less advanced subs of WWII. The deeper diving subs of today are even more vulnerable to this type of damage.

All you need to do is compromise the pressure hull at the depths most modern subs operate in. A small crease, a ripple from the pressure waves of a nearby explosion, and the pressure of water outside does all the rest. 700 feet down may not sound like much, but that is over 21 atmospheres of pressure. To see what a small crease can do under pressure, try the following experiment.

Stand atop an empty soda can, as long as you are under around 250 you should be able to do it and the can retain it's shape. However, there are 2 easy ways to destroy the integrity of the can and collapse it. One is to bounce a bit, the increase in pressure in an uneven fashion is enough to compromise hull integrity and crush the can.

In the same way, you can have somebody use a stick or something to press in just a bit on the side of the can. Same result, integrity compromised, can collapses.

So actually "penetrating" the hull is really not that big of a deal. The attackers simply need to do enough damage to the hull that the water pressure does the actual destruction. And remember, the actual goal of the depth charge was to either drive off the submarine, or cause it to surface.

 

Torpedos today are not designed to hit and penetate the hull of a ship. They are designed to detonate below the ships hull forming a bubble that will rise hoping to brake the ships keel or at least penetrate the multi hulls that are found on older warships that were designed to take numerous hits and keep on fighting.

 

He was talking about a shape charge and not a blast warhead Apach. He's also probably unaware of the triple hull of the Iowa's, much like he's unaware of lot more when he makes his ridiculous posts.

 

I should have directed the post to AboveAlpha but I'm sure he'll see it.

The shape charge torpedo is intended as an ASW torpedo not an anti ship torpedo.

 

I am aware of this because I was the first member to bring that fact up on this topic as far as the Mark 50.

But QLB has yet to answer the BIG QUESTION which will determine whether he just knows a few things or he is keenly aware of a few things and that question is.....

******************************************************************************
Let me ask you this....what is the other use for a Torpedo with a shaped charge besides directing usually molten copper at a very high rate of velocity through a ships hull?

I will give you a clue....it has NOTHING to do with the explosive charge shaped and directed for hull penetration.

If you can't answer this....you are way below my knowledge level on this subject.

AboveAlpha

Also....Appy....the discussion you and I were having was exactly WHAT besides a NUKE.....is the easiest way of sinking and Iowa Class Battleship or at least putting it out of commission so it annot properly opperate to any degree.

This was not taking into account attempting to circumvent MODERN U.S. Carrier Defense be it Support Ships with SM-3's or L.A., Virginia or Seawolf Class sub's guarding it......or B-2's flying in undetected and dropping Guided Ordinance that is capable of penetrating the deck DEEPLY and using anything from Bunker Busters to the new Deep ground and Reinforced with steel and heavy concrete and rock DEEP UNDERGROUND PENETRATOR MUNITIONS.

We were all basically talking about what could or could not sink an Iowa Class Sub and unfortunately the discussion took a turn for the worse.

So I posted that report and I DID NOT CREATE THE REPORT.....but a High Ranking Member of the U.S. Military did and he indicated that 4 to 6 Shaped Charged Munitioned Torpedo's would easily do the job.

Now as a Battleship is NOT going to be standing still as it will be moving as quick as it an and taking evasive actions besides Nukes and besides being able to get a large EXPLOSIVE MINE under the Battleship as even a very large or multiple containers of Amatol with timers set to release sea water into the containers as when that happens the chemical reaction between the Amatol and the Seawater will cause a great enough explosive force to snap the spine of an Iowa Class but this would be problematic at best unless the Iowa Class was docked and someone came in wit a Mini-sub and placed a massive mine under the Iowa Class....well that would do the job.

Using B-2's to drop Large and High explosive Deep perpetrators might not sink the ship but it would render the Iowa class useless.

But a Modern Super High Explosive Shaped Charge Perpetrator....4 to 6 Torpedo's hitting it in even close to the right spots would sink the Iowa Class.

Another way to sink her is to use Air Dropped Large High Explosive Mines in a specific configuration around areas of the Iowa Class and have then all DETONATE at precise moments as the mines would be GPS located to the Iowa Class which we could do anything from use sonar or radar to pinpoint her position or better yet....TAG HER....as we can drop by aircraft a sort of Cluster Munition that's sole purpose is to get as many GPS TAGS explosively buried into the Iowa Class as to make their removal impossible given the short time necessary.

Thus the GPS Coordinates of the Iowa Class are determined EXACTLY right down to a Meter or two on the water as she performs evasive action and then all 4 or 6 or more or perhaps only 3 massive mines WILL DETONATE....not necessarily at the same time but at various individual times micro seconds apart or perhaps longer to generate a KINETIC ENERGY HYDRODYNAMIC OVERLAPPING CONCUSSION RIPPLE THAT WILL IMPACT THE IOWA CLASS IN A MANNER THE KINETIC ENERGY TRANSFER will actually rip the Iowa Class APART!!!

Sort of like being hit by Millions of Ton's of Hydrodynamic E=Kinetic Energy transference waves that rip the Iowa lass apart in the same manner Sound Waves can shatter a good Crystal glass! Except in this case the Fore Waves are times to overlap and cause maximum damage to the hull.

And as far as a Triple Hull....a new modern design Shaped Charge Torpedo would not only punch a hole through all 3 hulls with a Molten substance as it is not even the Molten Nature of the Copper than makes the hole but rather the velocity and direct kinetic energy transfer of a Penetrator Shaped Charge that makes the misnomer name of a HEAT ROUND INCORRECT....and 4 to 6 of these along with a SECONDARY EXPLOSIVE EVENT SPECIFIC TO THE TORPEDO'S SHAPED CHARGE MUNITION/PROPULSION SYSTEM will open up the small hole like a CAN OPENER!!!

THIS....is what no one else here on this topic has discussed!!!

A SINGLE Shaped Charge TORPEDO is not just for making a small hole through tough and thick armor.

It is also existing for the purpose for the use of two and possibly 3 total shaped charges.....one for penetration and shooting molten copper through just about anything and anyone.....and a second to be used as a PROPULSION SYSTEM FOR THE TORPEDO'S SECONDARY PENETRATOR....and a 3rd to open up that whole WIDE!!!

AboveAlpha

- - - Updated - - -

Read my post #402.

AboveAlpha

 

And still you live in a fantasy land.

Stealth aircraft are not invisible! You keep bringing up over and over again equipment and vehicles that do not exist, or giving equipment that does exist these capabilities that they simply do not have.

For the last time, stop making things up, will you?

"Stealth Aircraft" are not invisible, they are not undetectable. They simply have such a low RADAR return that they are not detectable until they are very close, and it is hard for missiles to lock onto them (especially ground based missiles).

Oh, and by the way, the very moment you mentioned attacking air assets and submarines in the same paragraph, you were so far off course it is not even funny. You see, modern submarines have exactly zero (nil, zilch, nada) anti-air capability. Submarines have not had the capability of striking out at air targets since the last of the WWII era Tench class submarines were retired over 40 years ago.

So mentioning a US submarine defending against a B2 bomber is a complete and utter failure. But somehow you do mention the SM-3 being fired from "support ships". I guess to you, AEGIS class cruisers and destroyers are just support ships. And what are fuelers, enroute FAE systems?

 

I never said that we use Sub's to defend against Bombers!!????

Where the HELL did you get that idea???

All I talked about was B-2's being used to drop large Deep Penetrator Bombs on a Battleship....that's ALL!!!

Where the F@#% you got from that Sub's defending against a B-2 I have no idea!!!!

AboveAlpha

 

"Deep Penetrator Bombs" are so politically incorrect, why not "Proton Torpedos" ?

 

Some people only seem to be able to live in a fantasy world, and not in the real one.

Of course, some people are able to believe anything.

http://www.naturalnews.com/050816_Tianjin_explosion_space-based_weapons_military_retaliation.html

 

First I have heard about this, George Norey must have been on vacation when this war began.

 

LOL!!!!

She LISTED as I slammed my Deep Penetrator all the way into her deepest recesses!!

AboveAlpha

- - - Updated - - -

HEY!!!

At least fess up you made an mistake!!!

Least you could do!!

AboveAlpha

 

In regards to anti air capability on modern submarines, right at the end of the Cold War there were some reports of the Soviets experimenting with a navalized version of a SAM fitted to a modified snorkel mast of submarines in a box launcher.

IIRC, there were concepts for a U.S. submarine launched SAM that would be ejected from a torpedo tube, rise to the surface and launch. The big problem being getting a radar lock on the aircraft to begin with.

 

That is pretty much impossible.

Putting a RADAR on a submarine entirely defeats it's purpose of being stealthy. Doing so not only is pretty impossible for many reasons, it is like placing a 100 million candlepower floodlight on top of the submarine, allowing any aircraft or vessel see exactly where it is.

There have been many attempts over the decades to do so, but none has ever worked or gone beyond the prototype phase.

 

If a submarine is already under air attack. For example if it is in shallow waters being boxed in by air dropped sonar buoys then its stealthiness is already compromised and destroying the aerial attacker might be the only good option.

 

It is already hosed for getting in that position in the first place.

Think of it as a sniper who has a STINGER round with him as well. He has popped a few people, but there is a helicopter with FLIR that sees him. So he pops up and uses his STINGER to take out the helicopter.

Which is only going to guarantee that every helicopter, fighter, and drone with FLIR capability is going to scream into the area to find what took out the helicopter. As well as every APC with thermal sights, and tons of foot patrols.

A SONAR hit is just a hit, it tells them there is something there. And it takes a lot more before they are anywhere near enough to even fire at them. For one, you have to verify it is a sub and not something else (ship wreck, pod of whales, etc). Then you have to figure out who's boat it is. Is it one of yours? An ally? Your enemy, or some neutral uninvolved country? Nobody is just going to fire off against another submarine, even in wartime. The dangers of friendly fire are to serious to take such actions.