Iran’s Rouhani warns of greater hardship than war years of 1980s

Yes, that is the consequence of dishonest government. Kennedy made Krustchev "back down", Johnson did not send American soldiers to Cambodia, Nixon knew nothing about Watergate, Reagan had no part in Iran Gate, Clinton did not have sexual relations with Monica Lewinski, Bush "never suggested" there were WMD's in Irak ....... et perpetuus. So when the U.S. speaks we turn up the music so we don't have to hear more lies.

 

Yes, I guess it must not have struck me quite as strongly that it is nothing short of murder. I was listening to Pompeo talking the other day, using all the 'right' words making himself sound the humanitarian, himself the one who believes in democracy, himself who cares about the people and the crudeness of him saying this and not being confronted, really struck me. The first time round we did not know so much and all was an argument but this time people do know exactly what is going on and he still has the front to give the same lines. Possibly before, I may have given some room for mistakes but when you see the same tricks being played over and over and when it is known they are not the truth, though I do know that US media particularly on Venezuela presents them with false news, but plenty do know that what he is saying is not true and given that, to be able to say it with a silly smile on his face while not being confronted is beyond belief. I think before I had criticisms of this action or that of the West but recently my position has gone through a radical change seeing the US in particular as the villain....and I know they know what they are doing and yes I knew that before but this is just on a deeper level. It is quite shocking really as we are supposed to be democracies and there is no way that you can get away from the reality that they know they are going to mass murder even innocent civilians - what they call 'collateral damage' and something which one in the UK even suggested the wikileaks video of US soldiers telling lies to their superiors so that they could have a bit of fun killing civilians was itself simply collateral damage of war. It's like those with the minds of illegal war are just getting worse and worse, trying to get the public to accept any inhumane act as in the case of the soldiers in Iraq, when others now know exactly what they are doing. I have a suspicion that this is also included in the work which appears to be going on to divide civilian society in much of Europe. Some angry about society can be manipulated to believe it is just the 'left' who think such things, who have created such things and that the way out is to move to the far right. The left they claim are the reason for this.

Possibly also the weirdness comes from us or rather our leaders especially in the case of the UK changing their position and snuggling up to the US, making us too a country involved in 'perpetual war' when we used to take war very very seriously. Prior to that we knew that the US was addicted to wars and had a different attitude to Europe and somehow we have been pulled in by 9/11 to commit these crimes.

I also still wonder just how much of the actions after 9/11 were deliberate. For instance we all know about no wmd and no Al Qaeda. Our intelligence told our Governments that but were told to go back and produce 'intelligence' which would support war. The US and UK wanted war with Iraq, probably following 'Clean Break'. Here is the thing. Our Intelligence also said that if we invaded Iraq we almost certainly would bring extremist Muslims there. Is it possible that is what the US/UK wanted? Even worse, our Intelligence told our Government that if they invaded Iraq it was very likely it would bring Islamic Terrorism to the streets of London. Like with everything else they were correct on this too. Did the UK/US want that? It would certainly help to get hatred of Muslims going.

OK sorry, you got me started

 

Are you saying that Iranian terrorism of today is justified revenge for what has happened 60 years ago?

 

Why don't you list those acts of Iranian terrorism happening today

 

It's enough to make you retch I know. But there is method to what we see as madness > > >

Those pulling the strings are getting wealthier by the minute and the more havoc they create directly (or foresee as favourable consequence) the better for them.

1. We hire them (our taxes don't ya' know) for their representation.
2. They teach us to fight in order to protect the realm to which they claim affiliation.
3. They send us to illegal wars where we kill and die.
4. Once the war is underway it makes no difference if we find them out or not because (a.) We need to avenge our fallen and (b.) The damage is already done and we may just as well "clean up" and finish the job. And in any case, we now have made real enemies (there's the favourable consequence) who will do us in if we don't get them first.

Round and round it goes, all the while we continue to pay our taxes and hope either for the best or a man like Julian Assange who will rescue us further done the line ...... if he doesn't finish up on the gallows.

 

Take it one step at a time, cowboy. If you and what's-his-name put the timeline correctly then you will have the answer to your question. But sticking to the dialogue in progress (before you showed up) he was complaining about interjections of "death to the U.S." Funny (not) that your ilk skip over progression of events and pretend as though criticism falls out of trees without as much as a breeze.

Now ..... did you also have a question?

 

I'll get back to you on that but I don't believe that what is going on is without political motivation and we have a difference in what we believe that is!! I am just curious at the moment the level to which things were planned. It seems somewhat strange that on hearing that not only is a country not a risk but that to go ahead with planned invasion would create the very thing you were apparently trying to stop (war on terrorism), having been told this by your intelligence you go ahead and attack the country which was no threat knowing that by so doing you will likely not only increase terrorism but bring it to your own backyard. It defies believe but that was what was done and it was done for a reason.

 

Politics is like religion in the sense that they are often used as a ruse and have nothing what-so-ever to do with the actual motivation which is kept from the public eye.

 

Besides the fact that terrorist organizations like Hamas, Hezbollah, and Islamic Jihad are actively trying to destroy the State of Israel and are Iranian proxies? And besides the fact that Iranian proxies in Iraq have killed approximately 1100 American soldiers?

Albania Expels Two Iranian Diplomats For Allegedly ‘Harming’ National Security

Bahrain withdraws ambassador from Iran

CAIRO: Bahrain said Thursday it had recalled its ambassador to Iran, a day after it said security forces had discovered a large bomb-making factory and arrested a number of suspects linked to Iran’s Revolutionary Guard.

Cops name Iran military arm for attack on Israeli diplomat

NEW DELHI: Alleging that an Iranian state agency was involved in the February 13 bomb attack on an Israeli diplomat in the capital, the Delhi Police has concluded that the suspects were members of Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, a branch of the nation's military.

Iranians Planned to Attack US, Israeli Targets in Kenya: Officials

Two Iranian men who led officials to a 33-pound stash of explosives have now allegedly admitted they were plotting to attack U.S., Israel, Saudi or British targets in Kenya, according to the Associated Press.

Iran, Hezbollah charged in 1994 Argentine bombing

BUENOS AIRES: Prosecutors formally charged Iran and the Shiite militia Hezbollah Wednesday in the 1994 bombing of a Jewish charities office in Argentina, which killed 85 people and injured 300.

"We deem it proven that the decision to carry out an attack July 18, 1994 on the AMIA (Argentine Jewish Mutual Association, a Jewish charities association headquarters in Buenos Aires) was made by the highest authorities of the Islamic Republic of Iran which directed Hezbollah to carry out the attack," Argentine chief prosecutor Alberto Nisman said.

Thai Police Widen Search for Iranians

BANGKOK—Thai police said they were searching for a fifth suspect in this week's alleged botched terrorism plot in Bangkok, while local security forces increased security checks in heavily touristed areas of the city.

Thai authorities have said several Iranian nationals planned to assassinate Israeli diplomats in this Southeast Asian nation amid growing tensions between Iran and Israel over Tehran's nuclear program...

France freezes Iranian assets after rally bomb plot

France has blamed Tehran for plotting to bomb a large rally by an opposition group near Paris and said it was freezing some Iranian assets in retaliation for the foiled attack.

Denmark calls for fresh EU sanctions on Iran after alleged assassination plot foiled

Denmark says the Iranian government intelligence service had tried to carry out a plot to assassinate an Iranian Arab opposition figure on its soil.

The alleged plot, which Denmark's Foreign Minister Anders Samuelsen said he believed the Iranian government was behind, prompted the Nordic country to call for fresh European Union-wide sanctions against the Islamic Republic.

I've made the headlines to be the links to the respective articles.

 

1. Allegedly
2. Suspects - no evidence
3. Alleging
4; 35 years ago
5: Alleged
6: No access
7: Alleged

 

If you just opened the curtain a twitch at Israeli assassination you would find a hundred for every Iranian.

Israel is what the whole racket of destroying the ME has been about is it not?

 

Some good news for a change

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20190516-iraq-wont-allow-us-to-attack-iran-from-its-territory/

 

That IS good news.

 

Israel is the example that a liberal democracy could be functioning in the Middle East. And that population with high testosterone levels in the blood is not an obstacle.

Yes, Israel defends itself. But it goes out of its way not to harm innocent civilians. Sometimes probably even too much.

 

You were complaining about Iran and terrorism. Israel is far worse at assassinating people than Iran and given Israel's Nation State Law any suggestion she is a democracy inside Israel proper is now laughable...but that is not all the land Israel, which is now an extreme right state, believes is hers is it? She thinks the West Bank is as well doesn't she, as settlers burn Palestinians out of their homes so that they can take their homes or beat them up, with the army supporting them, so that they cannot work their fields and Israel takes their water so that they cannot produce produce. Israel should start mending her own house.

The Palestinians gave up 78% of their homeland to Israel. All they asked for was 22% in the form of a viable congruous state. Israel couldn't even give them that. The USA allows Israel to do this. Otherwise she could not. Of course Zionism Extremist Israel and Extremist Christians have something in common. What will be interesting is who wins the last round.

Why Israel’s new law makes peace harder
Donald Trump should tell Binyamin Netanyahu to stop the land grabs

What the US and Israel have been up to is a Crime Against Humanity.

This and the next quote are reviews on Israel's illegal killings. This is the Times of Israel

https://timesofislamabad.com/15-Jul...n-any-other-secret-agency-in-the-world-report

and this is Electronic Intifada - no smart attacks. The Electronic Intifada is one of the best researched and linked on line papers.

https://electronicintifada.net/content/israels-secret-assassinations/24651

2,700 Assassinations recorded. (According to the Independent) Many more not recorded no doubt. Like I said take the moans you quoted on Iran and check them out on Israel, you would likely find for every one Iranian, there are 100 Israeli as she goes around colonising the ME having kept the Palestinian people prisoner for 50 years as she stole their land.

Israel is a State born of Terror who has been creating terror every day of her existence.

The US used to at least try to stop Israel doing her worst. Now they have the Christian Right in Power they are creating hell on earth.

 

Not sure if you can trust the timesofislamabad.com website, but even if it was correct and Israel indeed carried out 2700 targeted assassinations since the end of the WWII, so what? It's been 73 years since 1945 which means on average 31,5 killings per year. Of Nazis and Islamic terrorists. Iran executes hundreds of people every year including minors for the crimes like homosexuality, prostitution and recidivist consumption of alcohol.

 

Most of the Israeli public supports the idea of an independent Palestinian state on the West Bank. And so do most of the Israeli politicians. Do you know why it doesn't happen? Because Palestinians won't tolerate even a single bloody Jew in their future wonderfull state.

 

They don't any more. This is march 25th of this year

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...tion-including-two-state-supporters-1.7047313
What is more I think there is now a majority of Israeli citizens who want Israeli citizenship removed from non Jews

It really is not so. When Bennett was talking to the Saban forum in 2014 and was saying the intention was for there to be no Palestinian State, the people there were shocked. One there asked him if he thought the world would accept that the Palestinians would be the only people in the world to remain without rights for ever. Bennet appreciated it was a pity it must be so but said it would just take a bit of psychological work. That work has been easily accomplished and I hear a majority of Americans now believe the West Bank is Israeli. This is shown by the fact that the US has stopped calling it Occupied Territory.

There is a very small number of Israelis who work tirelessly for justice and rights for the Palestinians. They are considered traitors. I once noticed an Israeli who claimed to be on the left going into a tizzy because another Israeli accused him of supporting Peace Now. Israel's rulers were very savy when they agreed to the two state solution in stopping in the main using Palestinian workers and building the wall. This means that Israeli citizens unless they make a point of it, as some do, have no idea what it is like for the Palestinians. In addition they only have a semi free press and the population are fed Netanyhu's views through the free paper funded by Addelson. I see from Israelis who post here how they have through the years moved to the right. I deeply respect those who do work for justice but also fear for them as Israel brings in laws against them. Israelis who marched against the 2014 war found themselves beaten up and particularly if they were arab, lost their jobs.

Israel has moved more and more to the right and her people in the main have moved with her. More and more people, I think Gideon Levy is one, no longer hold back from calling Israel a fascist state.

Palestinians contrary to what you say were prepared to accept Jews in their State provided they integrated and went by that State's law. It is Israel who believes in Ethnic Nationalism.

 

The Palestinians still refuse to recognize Israel's right to exist. That is THE main stumbling block to peace in the Middle East. If they were to concede recognition, the Palestinians would soon
have their own state. Everyone believes that two states is the only solution to the Palestinian problem. If the Muslims would lay down their arms, there would be no more violence. If the Israelis laid down
their arms, there would be no more Israel and probably no more Jews. Israel has moved further to the right because they are increasingly recognizing that the Palestinians and other Muslims have no
intention to give up their dream of destroying Israel.

 

That was a mistake. I thought it was the Times of Israel! Anyway as I said it was a review of a well researched book. You have the Electronic Intifada and there is also a link to the Independent speaking about it. They said 2,700. The Times of Islamobad only 2,300

Way more than Iran. You try and put Iran down for things that Israel does far worse. It doesn't give your word much credibility and certainly suggests that reality has nothing to do with it.

Nazis and Islamic Terrorists. Get real, Israel kills scientists, politicians, medics, children and lots and lots of children, the disabled, big on killing the press - all while against International law. Israel even has different laws towards arabs and Jews. By law she can shoot dead an Arab throwing a stone but not a Jew. Certainly Israel's inhumane treatment of the Palestinians goes way beyond this and has been going on for over 50 years to Gaza and the West bank and 70 years to a lesser degree to Arab citizens of Israel.

So now you are wanting to murder the civilians of Iran because after China they kill the most people. I do not support the death penalty for any reason. I notice that the United States however does commit State Sanctioned Murder including on people with mental health problems. I notice also that the USA's second best friend Saudi Arabia murders for much the same reasons and even for writing poetry. It is hypocrisy to suggest the country of Iran should be destroyed because you do not like their laws when you yourself and your best friends are engaging is just such horrific activity.

Israel likes to present herself as a friend of gays but she is losing their support as she forces gay Palestinians to be spys in the full knowledge that this leads to their deaths and so in reality is deliberately covertly killing them.

 

They recognise Israel does exist. They do not believe the way Israel took their homeland was just, so they cannot say it is 'right' but they accept it has happened. You cannot expect to act towards people the way Israel has to the Palestinians and for them to say it is 'right'. It has happened. They accept the state of Israel. Demanding they say it is right that Israel took their land is simply away to avoid needing to stop taking more and more.

 

"THE main stumbling block to peace in the Middle East" is Israel continually stealing more and more land. Even an Israeli prime minister admitted that he had no intention of stopping this theft

 

If the Palestinians acknowledged Israel's right to exist, the Israelis would be unable to confiscate more land. The pressure from the USA and the International Community on Israel to negotiate in good faith would
be overwhelming. Israel uses the Palestinians intransigence as an excuse to expand their settlements. As long as the Palestinians cling to the hope of destroying Israel, the Israelis have no reason to compromise
with them. Would you seek to accomodate someone who wants you dead? Thus, the Palestinians' refusal to recognize Israel's right to exist is still THE main stumbling block to peace.

 

The theft of land is occurring in The West Bank. The Palestinian Authority do recognise Israel's right to exist

 

This is just nonsense. Arafat and the PLO recognised Israel and only asked for 22% of their homeland to build a viable congruous State on.

Israel just uses this is various guises as an excuse to take all of Greater Israel and the Christian Zionists join in.

First they had to recognise Israeli which they did in 93. This I think was a precondition of talks for the two state solution. The Palestinians did this although that meant giving up 78% of their homeland. That was the time when they were broken and according to Jabotinsky, who netanyahu's father was secretary to, the time when they would make a deal and allow Israel a good part of their homeland.

Done.

Israel then decides she wants more than this and starts talking about having a 'right' to exist. No people tell a country they have a 'right' to exist. They either do or not and the Palestinians were certainly not going to say injustice was just.

They have moved on from this now and want the Palestinians to recognise them as a Jewish State. This the Palestinians cannot do as 20 to25% of Israelis are not Jews. Israel has done this one for herself with the Nation State Bill making non Jews officially second class citizens. She usually cries about this. Again it is not for any other people to say what kind of a State any State is. It is for that State to do it itself. I think slightly more than half of Israelis now want non Jews to have their citizenship removed. Knowing that this was what she was up to the Palestinians were unable to agree. Israel should be a State for all her people.