Is Cultural Diversity Better than Cultural Fusion

I was thinking about people's feelings on having their culture "threatened" by other cultures. It seems like the general sentiment is that they wish for their culture to remain pure or "traditional" in some sense, and that a changing culture, especially change because of an outside culture, would ruin their own.

The problems I had with this view were...

1. Cultures always change. Today's culture was not like culture was 100 years ago. 100 years ago was not a "heaven" or a grand time to live in, as compared to now, such as to say that we have "lost our way" from "better days".

2. It is precisely the continuous communication with other cultures that leads to the general progression of the human race. No idea or knowledge was really "created" or "invented" by someone. All knowledge is built upon by succeeding societies in succeeding times. For instance. One of the key reasons behind European dominance was guns. Guns were not invented in Europe. Nor were they invented in the Middle East. One could say they appeared in China, was advanced by Middle Easterners, and then was advanced further by Europeans. However, Guns were not the reason Europe dominated, nor was science. Europe was a student of the Middle Eastern/North African cultures. Even it's infamous icons (castles and nobility, such as they are now) were reflections of what European warriors encountered in the south.

What would be the damage if the American continent merged into one unified culture? Or maybe the entirety of America? Is that an inherent danger?

 

If balkanization and group self interest is better than equality and the rule of law....otherwise, not so much.

 

I would argue the cultural fusion model is what America represents. Cultural separatism is more representative of Europe and has witnessed more conflicts as a result.

 

Popular culture in the Americas may join in some kind of melange: salsa outsells catsup in the US; tacos, fries, chocolate, tobacco (all mixes of Native Peoples' foods/ag & European methods) are found throughout the continent.

History & religion are different though - even though history is much neglected in the US, the religious traditions are unlikely to concede any ground @ all. Mother languages fade away, but in the case of Spanish - with so many native speakers nearby & in the vast majority the further south one goes (except for Brazil & a handful of smaller nations) - Spanish may eventually become enshrined as a de facto official language.

 

I would agree that true assimilation happens readily here, IF the more extreme elements within our society do not seek to maintain 'separation' of cultures.

Most of the separatism we see in America is fostered by 'racism'.

 

That's a misunderstanding on your part. Most people (maybe there a lone idiot out there somewhere) don't prpose that cultures never change. It's obvious that cultures change, so there's not reason to deny reality. What the argument is about is that cultures should be allowed to develop on their own, rather than be replaced.

I like kebab, pizza and hamburgers, I also like american big band, jazz, and rock and german classical music, I used to practice japanese ju-jutsu et cetera. I like those things, as do swedes. Sweden didn't create any of that, but we saw that other cultures had them and we liked it and adopted it ourselves (and refined it. our pizza is better than italian, i'm serious!). But this is key: the people making my burgers at mcdonalds are swedes, and my ju-jutsu teacher was also a swede. Id est, there's no need at all for there to be an actual american (or german to be really original) and a jap to do those things. Good things spread without the help of immigration, especially now that we've got the internet and very efficient transportation.

The argument that you failed to understand is simply as folllows: To allow cultures to pick and choose which ideas they like from other cultures. It's not about keeping a culture free from foreign pollution. And the spread of ideas doesn't require mass immigration.

But to answer your question; A single fused culture is preferable to lots of cultures (inside a country of course, not speaking for global). Diversity leads to balkanisation. That's about it.

 

I would agree with you about Pizza. Although I can't speak to Swedish pizza, I've had pizza in other countries in Europe, including Italy, and they're pretty crappy. The best pizzas in Europe are in American chain restaurants like Pizza Hut. The US has done a good job of taking the food of other cultures and altering into tastes that are pleasing worldwide. On the other hand, I've not had ice cream in the US as good as I've had it in Europe. We still have a way to go there.

But culture isn't really about food. It's about ingrained habits of a people that they might not even be consciously aware of, but magnified over an entire nation lead to totally different results. Germany and Italy both have traffic laws, but by and large Germans obey theirs and Italians ignore their's. Germany and Greece share the same currency but Germans are thrifty and hardworking, Greeks are ... not so hard working and are in no way thrifty. Some countries are extremely politically corrupt, and it's considered normal. Political corruption is ubiquitous in Illinois and Louisiana, but other states would never tolerate the level of corruption that those states feel is "normal"

Culture makes a big difference in standard of living, since although different cultures have different ideas of how the world works, the world actually works as a reality based system. The further your culture strays from reality, the more left behind you're going to be. Culture is important. If you have a good one, you should want to keep it that way. If you have a crappy one... well you are probably blaming others for your troubles and are blind to how your habits are cheating you.

 

wouddn't pizza hut be like the mcdonalds of pizzas? Id est, cheap and mass produced but affordable and attractive because of it's cheap price and somewhat respectable quality? I'm eating pizza from a local brand, one which doesn't even cover all of sweden. A very small company then. But it's good i tell you, good! so fat and cheesy... btw, burger king is better than mcdonalds. or? Dispute that and I'll start a thread over it.

Indeed, but food and music is part. But to add to what you have said: One could divide culture into three parts. One would be the good things that other people would covet and seek to adopt (like pizza, mozart, and martial arts), the second would be things that are present in every culture but which every culture is conent with and things that are equal in their function across cultures (like turbans and bowling hats. it's nothing of value really. brits wouldn't ever adopt turbans because they already have something just as good, whilst they don't have something as good as pizza for example), and thirdly things that are bad with a culture (like islamic honour killings, russian vodka culture, italian driving).

And to combine it with that I said before: I think it's fair to say that the only things a culture wopuld ever possible want from another is of the first part. It's also evidently true that those things spread around the world themselves, without the need for a member of the inventing culture to tag along as a migrant, due to them being valuable things and subsequently popular. it's also true that immigration, particularily mass immigration, bring with it all three parts: The good, the useless, and the bad. Thus, I conclude, that the case for restrictive immigration is strong based on this.

 

Pizza Hut probably is the McDonald's of pizza, and the best pizzas I've had was from mom & pop type shops, not chain restaurants, but Pizza Hut is still pretty good pizza, and you can go anywhere in the world and get a pretty good pizza from them. That's a useful service/

Since I agree with you on Burger King v McDonalds, no need to start a separate thread.

The irony is that countries that have really crappy cultures would probably benefit from mass immigration, like Nigeria. But of course, these same countries are s-holes so no one wants to move to those countries anyway/

 

Indeed, the wonder of chain stores: same cheap stuff no matter where you go!

And to add to that; that since the mass immigration is directed to countries with good culture from countries with bad it will inevitable turn all countries into bad culture countries. what a wonderful future we have in sight indeed.

 

(My bold)

The Balkans are a special case; v. deeply held religions & languages & cultures, with murderous histories that are also deeply held. Witness the Serbs & Croats, talking about historical events 1500 years gone as if they'd happened yesterday. If the US tends to obliterate & ignore deep history, replacing it with a general belief in rising expectations & that the future will be even better, the Balkans seem to be drunk with the history of their particular ethnicities - which may not be the precise word. Perhaps Volk in the German sense, a people who share language, religion, history & a deep-seated sense of having been singled out for suffering.

All in all, I think the US has been lucky - we've managed to offer a political/economic order that permitted many peoples to surrender the prickliest bits of their shared in-group culture for wider opportunities. & of course, the US was late to the cataclysms of the 20th century. We can only hope to do as well in the present & into the future.

 

The US isn't leting the immigrants keep their culture and thus be regarded as separate peoples, it melts them into one big and diverse american nation. What defines a nation isn't the same for every people. For serbs and croats the division was which kind of christianity they had, for germans it is language, for chinese it's the shared history of being under imperial rule, and many muslims see islam as a nation, obviously then based on religion. America, is a nation but unlike many other nations in the world it isn't one based upon creed or race.

My thesis actually only applies when in a given territory there two groups that regard each other as separate groups that are in somehwat equal power in releation to each other. Diversity is okay, but not optimal, if there's a single strong and dominant culture. But as soon as there no single dominating culture there will be tension. If one imports another nation to live within ones own, and encourages them to be spearate, and while they're growing whiel you're declining, it's only a matter of time before the prequisites are fulfilled and a clash of some sort will errupt.

 

To much diversity is a bad thing. That is what happen to Yugoslavia. It tears apart a country.

Look at our own country. We here more and more talk about secession. And we are still basically all Americans. But labels like Conservatives or Liberals is enough to tear us apart.

 

Which could've been easily prevented years ago by forcing English to function in the country. Simple concept and so sad. We killed ourselves essentially conforming to the lazy...and yes, people who don't learn English in th US are LAZY, but our leaders over the years had to pander to the stupid.

Diversity certainly hasn't hurt Japan or China. There's no diversity there and they're doing rather well. Diversity is actually fine except when there are too many who have zero inclination to adapt. I live in Florida and have seen the degradation of the culture. Watching teenagers speak Spanish in public flat it insulting, but it's basically too late. Damage is done and we let it happen all due to political correctness.

 

(My bold)

In Yugoslavia, Josip Broz Tito died & the game was over. The Communists - the USSR - suppressed a lot of the nationality/ethnic yearning, by putting their boot on the insurgents' throat. Once the boot was gone, & Tito was gone, the repressed nationalities pretty much exploded. The old USSR contained massive numbers of various nationalities/cultures/language groups.

The PDR of China does as well, as they are also an Asiatic power, as the Asiatic portion of the USSR was. Japan managed to get through world wars & kept its cultural identity, much good may it do them. The price has been that they are still feared throughout Asia - watch the fireworks whenever Japan tinkers with its history curriculum to try to distance itself from WWII & Manchuria & Korea & Phillipines & Hong Kong & ... & Japan is below replacement level on its population - along with several of the European countries.

The US has managed to find a framework that allows individuals & communities to rise, if they're willing to play the political game. The talk about secession is just that - who else would buy all those tanks & C-130s & F-22s & CVNs & nuke subs ...? Who else can afford all that stuff? We can't - but that's certainly not going to stop us, nuh-uh.

 

I see people associating negatives with other cultures they don't fully understand, scapegoating those other groups for various perceived societal problems. Of course, race figures strongly into this as well. I don't see whites reacting negatively to other white cultures, for example. Attacks against other cultures seem to happen across racial barriers.

 

(My bold)

US immigrants learn English @ varying rates. Spanish has a massive base of speakers in the US, & there are Spanish-language newspapers, periodicals, radio & TV & cable. It's like - a complete culture - & it's easy to get back & forth. The children & grandchildren of Spanish-speaking immigrants are learning English too - but they're not getting beat up about it, to the extent that German- & Italian-speakers were during WWI & II.

China has tremendous amounts of population diversity, as noted previously. Japan probably needed more diversity - a way to draw in more population. But they're preserved a lot of their history/culture, & so they'll no doubt have v. nice shrines - empty, but v. nice. I'm sure the next set of owners will take good care of the major shrines.

Writing from Florida & mourning the passing of the culture, heh? Well, yes, the Seminoles probably deserved better. But the Spanish were tough people, & had armor, steel, horses & war dogs, gunpowder & hardened soldiers from near 700 years of fighting off Islam. Something had to give, & after all, they had the Pope's blessing.

Political correctness in FL? Ha, good one! You know that the Cuban influx was simply to poke Fidel in the eye, right? It was a peculiar kind of regional geo-politics, nothing personal in it. Besides, we need Spanish speakers, if we're going to communicate with the rest of the World. For my money, we need to cultivate home languages other than English - IBM & Walmart & Halliburton & GM & everybody needs to be able to talk & listen Worldwide.

 

Wrong!

We are being torn apart because we have literally ushered the greedy, corrupt and idiotic INTO POWER.

Where are the "statesmen"? Those men/women who work to harness the wonderful diversity within this nation that would surely make us stronger??!!

People disagreeing and being different in this society is nothing new. And now, mainly because people imagined that extremist IDIOTS or the wealthiest had ALL of the damned answers, they have allowed their voices to be muted and their hands shackled. Meanwhile, the extremists have vilified the 'moderates' who are typically attuned to the wants/needs of THE PEOPLE (adding fairness and balance, in a world where compromise and consensus are LITERALLY essential).

Only abject FOOLS think that human beings must be of ONE mindset and walking lockstep with one another. Therefore, those who are most reasonable understand, accept and foster decent compromise and civility.

Diversity is not the enemy... ENEMIES OF DIVERSITY (which accompanies progress) are the problem; yes, those PEOPLE are the primary source of the problems. What many will NOT admit is that extreme conservatism serves to stagnate many changes that must take place, in order for society to move forward (and not stagnate/wither).

I say... DO NOT LISTEN TO EXTREMISTS (especially those hanging out at the far-Right).

 

I think the whole world is merging into one culture. Everyone wants diversity, (sort of), but the truth is that diversity does not sell coca cola, and it is mass marketing that is leading our cultural existence.

I come from a dying culture. When people from the culture that I sprang from get together most people hear battling banjoes in their minds and try to politely excuse themselves. Salt of the earth, amen.

But whatever... As long as your culture is colorful enough to sell something or be entertaining it will exist, as a caricature of itself.

Embrace your stereotype or be expunged.

peace

 

That assumes that assimilation is a good thing. Assimilation in the context of the OP though simply means a reproduction of current culture with just a few more people in the culture, it doesn't add to the culture. I'm coming from the point of view that culture is adaptive human behaviour and that being so then culture must continually change to be useful. Any culture that is not changing will ossify and break.

 

China is an interesting example. Before the concept of nation states (a very recent idea) China was an empire nation. China was a concept rather than geography. That mentality is still apparent in the PRC today. When the concept of nation states withers away, which it will, we may see the rise of several other empire nations.

 

It's just human beings coming together. Ingredients to make the best of, not something to fear (as the uneducated and stupid tend to do)... but something to utilize for positive purposes.

Well, I agree that some OLD mindsets are going to have to be overcome; and with each successive 'generation' that is inevitable. New ideas WILL come and also be embraced, in time. We cannot and will not 'stay' where we are 'forever'; that would be unhealthy and impossible (really).

Yep!! That's what I'm pretty sure of as well.

 

Culture defines ones true identity,
but as always if he finds that it is quite nice to adopt another culture
then there is always freedom to do so, I could use a violin or a piano
aside strumming my old guitar, or else I could drink tequila or vodka aside
my jack daniels.
Infusing is quite sound if the culture is sound as well.

 

Well, eating salsa isn't really accepting another culture as much as it is accepting certain things that come from that culture. I don't want to turn this into a history lesson so I won't list the examples, but it's enough to say that those people who consider Hispanics a threat probably love taco's also.

Well...these are all your ideas, so I'll accept them as opinions. I'm not sure how you gathered your information on what most people think, though. I guess that would be the ideal we like to see in our country, and I also think that most people probably don't even bother with entertaining the notion, but that's just my thought, not real facts. Evidently there are a lot of people who see immigration as a serious issue- both as an economic and cultural danger. There are a lot of people who think multiculturalism or globalization will be a serious threat to the US culture.

Also, the argument is not about a replacement of culture, it's about a defense of US culture (or whatever culture a person happens to be thinking about. In most cases, those who support this usually attempt to restrict the cultural spread of other cultures into their own by various means. Those against Hispanics want immigration reform and deportation. I'd say they were the largest group. There are those who see Muslim's as a threat. I have no idea just how many people, but it doesn't seem like significant numbers believe this, but they also want deportation and or immigration control...and in some cases the limiting of rights.

My argument is that there is no threat from multiculturalism, but it is a benefit to humanity. I think I said that, I'm not sure what you are talking about in the above quote.

But to paraphrase so it is much clearer, I wanted to know from those who oppose multiculturalism, wherever you may be, what is the threat that you see as imposing on your culture or way of life? Is the culture of another people, whomever they are, a danger to your own?

I think White people do show antagonism toward each other, but it's not as strong. It's not a fact, but as I see it the more the difference in appearance and culture, the stronger the racial/cultural antagonism will be. It seems to be easier to disagree or differentiate oneself from things that are very different from you. (not you, lol)

Assimilation would be hideous. It basically wants a person to completely cross over to their culture, abandoning their original one. I don't even think it's possible.

 

Not really. Certain cultural things will pass between peoples, but the cultures themselves tend to remain in their own communes. Rather than fusion, it's more like cohabitation and tolerance, and even so their are antagonisms between them all where we may respect the culture, we may like certain things about the culture, but the picture of the people of that culture mixing into ones own immediate community might not be taken so openly.