I am not saying that employers and employees should not be able to negotiate terms of contracts, what I am saying is that people regardless of gender should have equal pay for equal work . .to not do so has nothing to do with negotiating contract terms and everything to do with discrimination based on gender.
It's not possible to enforce equal pay across the genders without entirely eliminating that voluntary negotiation. In addition, I have no problem with discrimination with your own property/labor.
Voluntary negotiation = the ability of an employer to offer anything he owns, and the ability of the worker to accept or reject the offer (and vice versa). Allowing that and enforcing equal pay among the genders is simply not possible. Restricting the ability of employers to on average offer women the same as men destroys the voluntary negotiation process.
Makes no sense. If I am the owner of a construction company, and a woman and man both apply for the position of manual laborer, who should I pay more? The man, who probably has the scientifically proven ability to lift more and do more physical labor required for the job, or the woman, who has less physical ability as the man? Why force an employer to pay the same when the skill sets as required by the job do not have the same outcome? Why would the woman thus be given the same amount as the man, even though PHYSICALLY, she is PROVEN SCIENTIFICALLY to have less capacity for the labor required then a man would? It's sheer idiocy and a total myth perpetrated by feminist hucksters that have created this total BS victimology about wage disparity. When discussing wage disparity, do these charlatan feminists even stop to consider FMLA and maternity leave, which women tend to take more of, and it's overall impact of averaged salaries? I'm sure they can't be bothered to be honest, after all, they've managed to convince the public over 50 years they're for equality, which is a blatant pack of BS falsehoods.
You should hire at equal pay since you have no idea who will be more productive....if an individual is more productive than another they should be given a better raise. To just ASSume that this particular woman is less productive than any male is sexist and Stupid and results in unfair wage disparity....and you may be losing an efficient, smart, hard working, ethical, employee because all you see is a vagina. I found that in physically demanding jobs women have more stamina and don't think they should slow down or quit just because they're tired.... AND, not all jobs are about physical strength...less and less so as time goes on...
Tell me - I am forced to pay an equal salary. If the man is more productive, as ASSumed at hiring, does it hit the front page of every newspaper in the nation if I give him a bigger raise? THIS is the issue with feminism, and how it has hijacked the entire discussion with a BS narrative. It's ridiculous and contrived. It's also a contrivance to FORCE anyone to PAY more for a candidate they believe will be less effective on the work force. Sexist? Is it sexist that the majority of RNs and School Teachers are women, because the vast majority of society frowns on MEN taking those jobs? Don't blabber to me about sexism. It is PROVEN scientifically that a male can do more heavy lifting and for longer periods then a woman. A woman may complain about it less, but it's a scientific FACT. I'm glad you brought up vagina, it's very mature. ....Good for you? Shall we just replace the entire labor industry with women, then? Would feminism finally accomplish it's goal - the absolute evisceration of men as a viable human sex? Would we finally then be able to look back and see what a poor joke it has been? Sure. Not all jobs are about physical strength. What of it? Do you honestly believe I'd pay a man as much as a woman if they were applying for a nursing job? Because frankly, women are better at palative care then men are. Because women are better at nurturing and empathizing with patients - is it sexist of me to accept scientific fact? Please, just stop. Do yourself and all of us a favor, and quit it. Wage disparity is a myth a hoax perpetrated at the highest levels by demagogues and charlatans pitching a horribly unequal punch line to a dumbed down public. Thanks, feminism.
Fact: sexists are not capable of seeing their own sexism so declare they there is no sexism. So I may "just stop" but not because you are so terrified of women and incapable of actually breaking free from the crap you were indoctrinated with that you have to lash out hysterically....but because " learning" is just not in your vocabulary... And , no, it isn't scientific about why most nurses are female. When nursing first started women weren't ALLOWED to become doctors , they mostly scrubbed floors and cleaned slop buckets which were "beneath" The Royal Male. Women had to "settle" for nursing. BTW, did you notice there are NOW female doctors and male nurses?
Blah blah, you have no counter to a logically constructed argument, so as is typical, you create a phoney trump card to try and dismiss my opinion without actually having the guts to debate. Claim sexism. Go ahead. It's easier for you then having an honest debate about the value feminism has brought us. Instead of thinking critically, you go nuclear about sexism so you can use your infallible argument to dismiss my credibility. Bravo? Here, have a breadstick. What's feminism gotten us that's so good? Millions of unemployed men, more and more every year of our young men being practically unemployable, schooling that favors subjects girls learn more easily, a ridiculous shame brigade that disallows men being men in any capacity, and a wage argument that amounts to nothing but gusts of foul smelling hot air. That's what. Oh, and let's not forget - it's also created an indentured servitude class, by denying men any validity in child rearing, and skewing family courts against them. It also places all culpability on the man, without giving him -any- valid input on termination. Yay, feminism - equality for all! Big deal? That was never my argument. My argument is that a man doesn't do certain jobs as well as a woman does and vice versa. You're the person telling me that I have to pay them both equally, despite one being better then the other, because... feminism. You don't care that women would be better compensated in other realms of occupation, and that men may be paid less in those jobs - you just care that women are paid the same as men - not vice versa, in any capacity. So yes, stop. It's transparent BS. Sure? What a total joke and a bad façade.
Blah blah blah""" women should know their place "pregnant, barefoot and doing "light work " of bearing children, and taking care of a house and ALL that goes with being a good little woman."" BYE.....misogynists and sexists will never change.....the fear is too deeply ingrained.
You really have absolutely no clue. I won't play this little game with you, where you get to point fingers and make assumptions about me personally. So address the issue. Why is it NOT sexist to pay a woman more for a job she is more suited then a man? Why, then, is it sexist to do the reverse? Admit it - you don't give a shart about equality. You care -solely- for the elevation of women, and are willing to create faux issues and use infallible arguments to prove your point - even though infallible arguments are -not- arguments. They are statements of misfact and assumptions at best. Go on, I -DARE- you to answer honestly. But I won't hold my breath.
I told you, deeply ingrained misogyny and sexism can't be changed. But , to your : "Why is it NOT sexist to pay a woman more for a job she is more suited then a man?"" It IS sexist. Because it is IGNORANT to ASSume that certain jobs are for one sex or the other. Whether YOU think so or not women are humans, humans are IN DI VI DU ALS. All you see is "It's female, we have rules carved in stone( carved in ignorance) of what females can and can't do...to keep them in line we must insist they take only jobs WE find acceptable..."""" You won't change, .......(shrug)
What? I never said women -can't- or -shouldn't be allowed to do a job.- I said it was asinine to expect equal pay for jobs where candidates are unequal; you however seem to be hung up on rash assumptions about my person, and rabidly so. Take a deep breath and use critical thinking for once.
(Bolding above, mine) You ASSume that women are suited to certain jobs and men are suited to certain jobs.......and you think that they should be hired and paid accordingly. I hate to shock you but this IS the 21st century not the 19th....women fly airplanes! Don't wear girdles! Ride horses with a leg on each side!Run large corporations! Build houses! Work construction! Become doctors! Repair cars! Those uppity wimmen folk do whatever they damn please!! ....and sue those who won't hire them because they're women
You didn't actually read what I have written did you? In the UK there is a growing equalling of maternity leave for both men and women, perhaps the US is a little behind on that.
Ugh, you just don't get it. You keep reverting to using platitudes and assumptions. Keep ranting and raving like a lunatic fringe ******* with an axe to grind. You're completely missing the main sticking point. In your endless crusade for "equality" you deny women their womanliness, and men their manliness. All in the name of equality. Sounds equal. About as equal as ten pounds of (*)(*)(*)(*) for 2 pounds of gold. You and yours quest for equality has earned us nothing but a systematic devaluing of the male sex, a systematic devaluing of rights and freedom, and a systematic dismantling of family court. I've got seventy years of history as proof. You've got assumptions and generalizations. What a joke. - - - Updated - - - Ma/Paternity leave should be equal for both parents. I completely agree with that. What of it?
I don't deny anyone their "womanliness" or "manliness" but YOU want to dictate what that is...... You even think that men are devalued because women are given equal rights .........guess length of time on earth doesn't necessarily mean one gets smarter, especially if one is living in the 19th century and the rest of us are here
I don't dictate anything. Scientific evidence backs the example I gave, which any reasonable poster can see. With absolutely no rationale, you simply refute my claim that scientific evidence is to the contrary of your fictitious belief. Your anecdotal argument is just that - anecdotal, though I can point you to various studies that prove my point to be correct - that in a general labor construction job, requiring heavy lifting for prolonged periods, a man is a better candidate due to genetics that back up the assertion he can lift more for longer periods. You've offered nothing of value but spewing rabid ideologically slanted isms at me, and it's exhausting. No, I believe men are devalued because society has taken rights -away- from men to benefit women. Equality doesn't exist in your skewed perception of the world, and we have seventy years of hard evidence to back that up. Feminism has destroyed schooling for boys, blacklisted -anyone- who claims to be for men's rights to quality, pressurized the political atmosphere, pushed the furtherance of nanny state victimologies and laws, the list is endless. So please do post something -good- beyond obtaining the right to vote that feminism has brought us. Again, I dare you to be honest, because frankly, you're ranting like a catholic nun that just met a homosexual black alien. It's preposterous and sad. Actually, if this is your vision of the 21st century, I'd prefer not to come with you. I value equality as an egalitarian who believes we should all have equal rights to employment, home ownership, safety, food, water, the right to pursue happiness et all. I don't value one subset of a gender (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)ing and whining so (*)(*)(*)(*)ing much [/I] that they end up skewing laws and courts, with real world consequences, against half the population. The very idea that anyone, anyone, supports this nihilistic dogma is sad.
Responding to your comment of "When discussing wage disparity, do these charlatan feminists even stop to consider FMLA and maternity leave, which women tend to take more of, and it's overall impact of averaged salaries?" where the fact is that the inequality of paternity leave is changing to an equal level. no one can be blamed for the US lagging behind in equality issues except the people who put those in power.
And until it is, can we even begin to discuss wage disparity? Right now the US has some of the worst... -worst- worker protection laws on the planet. It's the rabid right wing crusade against labor that has created this stifling environment, just like it's the rabid left wing crusade that has championed feminism as being pro equality. -BOTH- are wrong. Neither addresses equality in an efficient or even preferable fashion. They simply skew perception one way or the other, all the while dogfighting in the media.
I believe we can discuss it yes, especially in areas where the physical requirements of a job have no bearing. I also have little time for either extreme viewpoint be it from the right or left, the fact remains that men and women should be paid the same rate for doing the same job, and by 'the same' I don't just mean having the same job title.
Fox Hasting Once Wrote: "I apologize for it and I guess we will never agree on this issue mainly because I honestly don't care if one little thing is unfair to men.... I can't even pretend to care since I know so much of history and how this world has treated women." Feminism is a politically correct supremacist hate movement, just as the KKK was once a politically correct supremacist hate movement. I've asked countless feminists if being compassionate towards the suffering of a male could prevent violence against a woman would you be compassionate towards the suffering of a male??? and I've never had on feminist say that they would be compassionate towards the suffering of a male if it could prevent violence against a woman. Feminism is much more about hating men, than it is about helping women.
Grow up. And this is a crazy, misguided, ludicrous question on so many levels. IT is VERY dangerous territory to intimate that women are responsible for men's violence... intimating men are violent because you are intimating women aren't compassionate to men. What you are doing is BLAMING women and attempting to absolve men of their violent behaviour. You don't think men should be HELD RESPONSIBLE and ACCOUNTABLE for their violent behaviour? You want to blame women for men being violent. THAT is the epitome of misogyny. The misogynist says: "she made me do it". Insert whatever criminal, violent behaviour into that sentence, be it rape or battery or murder. Despicable. I don't suppose it has occurred to you that it is THE VIOLENT MAN who has to show COMPASSION... to the woman. The compassion not to be violent!! Seriously, your posts are twisted and grubby on so many levels. Do you know what the term 'responsible for one's self' means? The more I see of this nonsense... I see that misogynists BLAME women for their own shortcomings, failures, insecurities, inferiorities... and for their violence. Quite odious. Contemptible. Grow up.
