Is Zimmerman Guilty?

Trayvon was walking.. that is not grounds for citizen's arrest.

You think you are a cop?

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Vigilantism is not something that should be tolerated in the US...

 

It's not me whose saying this, it was a paramedic, so the argument holds.

 

Still doesn't address the legal aspect of it, so not really. Show me where the law dictates his prescription should be taken into account, and whether or not the paramedic has the approval to make claims of neurophysiology. Because there is a lot they are not allowed to do, or speculate on. It is the way the guild works. Lawyers don't like others giving legal advice, so they lobby against it, doctors are the same way.

And still has nothing to do with what occurred.

 

Nobody knows exactly what happened no do they? Sure he was walking, he didn't fly there. But what was he doing? If he is casing the area it merits a confrontation, simple challenge and confirmation is all. If you are an outsider waltzing about at night in an area foreign to you, you can't get too butt hurt if a neighborhood watchmen follows you, and confronts you if you are acting suspicious. Now if he approaches with his billy club and just starts pummeling you than you have a case.

But we don't know exactly what happened now do we?

Eww.... Why on earth would I want to be one? Facts are we are both endowed to do battle and enforce security. If I catch somebody breaking into my neighbors house I can arrest him, I'll call the cops so they can cart his meat away, but I can arrest him. Most simply do not know about this.

And if you really want to mince it up more, I have more authority than I police officer. He is a public servant, I am his master as long as I behave lawfully.

 

I think he's probably innocent of any murder charges, but guilty of being overzealous.

I suspect what happened is he went over the line in pursuing TM, but once the fighting started and he got in over his head he felt that his life was in danger. Especially if it's true that TM was trying to get his gun. If that happened I can see why someone was going to get hurt or killed.

Innocent of any murder charges is how I see it.

 

Sure we know.. George told the NEN that TM was walking in the rain.

Trayvon was not an outsider.. He was a guest.

They will ask George in court if he knew every resident at the Retreat and their guests... making him look like an idiot.

It was 7 PM..

When you are walking and talking on a cell are you still aware of your surroundings so you don't walk into a street sign or tree?

 

Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty.. As for what really happened, I don't know TBH

 

Vigilantism????,,from what this one action?, and we do not even know that. Is everybody on patrol a Vigilantly? Margot it would appear you have a Bias against this man, I could be wrong but you sure do go after this guy and you do not even know him...

What if, just what if it was self defense, cant you see how you have been attacking this man with no proof? You could ruin his life, and for what a Hunch? Now you may say,,well what about you defending him,,?

I say the only thing proven to me is he was attacked and shot a man, it's the only thing I'm positive about. I do not care what he ate yesterday, or if Travon was suspended from school. I only care about that nights actions. It's a very old story, man attacks another,,,oops, there was a gun....

 

You might want to look up the definition of vigilante.

The Stand your Ground law was not written to protect property, but to defend against imminent danger. Retreat to your home and call the police. Trayvon was neither a threat to property nor to George.

 

Oh, this was his first knock down punch? Lucky I guess....LOL

And the right thing for Travon was not to attack him, let the police handle him,,,right? You see Margot? What ''if's'' get us no place. I would think him getting out of his truck was a lot more legal than Travon attacking him, dont you?

 

He attacked him,,that's a pretty big threat. He does not even need stand your ground to defend himself.

 

As a responsible gun owner you are supposed to avoid creating a dangerous situation..

 

You’re in your car going to the store one night and you see someone walking down a street in your neighborhood and for some unknown reason you decide the dude looks “suspicious”.

You pull over (in front of the club house of your neighborhood) and you call 911 to report that a suspicious dude is walking down the street and that they need to come check him out. You have a CCL and you are armed. You get out of your car to follow this person and you do so while carrying your weapon….
…and then stop right there.

Doesn’t matter what you insert past opening the door. You just lost your right to stand your ground. Your ground was in the most protective environment you start at.

YOUR ground is in your original position and your obligation as an armed CCL carrier is to AVOID any act that INCREASES the potential to put yourself in danger and result in you using lethal force.

http://thehinkymeter.wordpress.com/2012/08/10/why-george-zimmermans-syg-defense-wont-stand/#comments

 

I've agreed with a lot of the things that you have said throughout this thread, and it has made me take a step back and think about the facts that we know of that night. If i am understanding your position correctly, you consider Trayvon the 'attacker', and given the information that we have, i am not so sure that I would agree.... Fact:Z saw Trayvon walking through the neighborhood suspicously....called the cops. Fact:when the police dispatcher he was speaking to realized he was following the kid, he said 'sir, we don't need you to do that" Fact: Zimmerman continued to follow Trayvon. Fact:Trayvons girlfriend was on the phone with him while this was going down and said that T told her he was being followed by someone and it was making him nervous.
now.....I'm certainly not saying that he didn't act foolishly, but given those facts, even if T DID throw the first punch, wouldn't that have been considered self defense? At the time of the attack, he felt that he was in danger and was defending himself? Every action has a consequence, and tragically Trayvon's actions cost him his life......
But shouldn't Zimmerman be held accountable for his actions as well? He CHOSE to get out of the car and follow this kid. No, I don't think that he was PLANNING on killing the kid, but after speaking to the police he CHOSE to get out of his car and approach him.

 

LOL! or.....perhaps Z was just a (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) and that's why he needed a gun to protect himself? (just playing)

 

Here is the thing, we have no proof Zimmerman did anything to warrant being punched. A physical attack certainly is not a normal response simply because you believe you are being followed, if that was the case an awful lot of people would be getting punched. In just about any case I know a physical attack is taken extremely serious than just about anything else.

The reason is simple, in all of these cases we are taking ones word..''Oh he was mean to me,,,Oh he cursed at me,,He stole from me, I heard he slept with my wife. A person will always have a story, and nobody can usually prove that story,,or accept that it should have provoked an attack. One thing the judge does know,,,,,SOMEBODY WAS ATTACKED, there is proof.
So, we go into this thing blind. I have been followed in a community, I was there visiting my In Laws in Florida. I did not punch anybody why would I?, and what would it do if I did? If the guy was going to rob me, he probably would have a gun or knife,,,no? My in Laws told me some people there watch strangers closely,,it made sense. Odds are if somebody is scaring you because he is following you, why would you attack him?

So,,simply put. You have no idea if Zimmerman was being threatening to Travon, or perhaps Travon was just angry he was being followed, you know nothing definite. The ONLY thing that is definite is that Zimmerman was physically attacked. Any Cop would go after the physical aggressor, and that ''definite'' aggressor would be Travon. It's the only thing we know for sure.

 

Does any of this actually prove TM didn't physically assault GZ?

Does GZ have to know everybody by name to be on watch? No. He doesn't. There are plenty of my people I have never spoken to in my neighborhood whose names I don't know. But I know what they look like. It is easy to spot someone who doesn't belong if you are familiar with the turf.

7 pm doesn't sound to late...unless you consider the shooting took place in late February. It gets darker earlier in the winter, but in all fairness, I have never been to the state of Florida during that time, I don't know.

When I'm walking and talking on a cell phone? Doesn't mean jack. Personally I can do these things and more - had to in the service. But this is about GZ and what he did, not the whole of humanity.

...did you grab another bucket?

 

Hey you could be right......,,,still no reason to punch the wimp, or perhaps it was to Travon,,,,

Brings up a good question, would Travon have hit him if he did not think he could take him? I doubt that very much.

 

I think its a good idea to try and understand the law.. and I think its a bad idea to compare yourself to George in any way.. you know 600 faces and their guests in a transient environment?


http://thehinkymeter.wordpress.com/2012/08/10/why-george-zimmermans-syg-defense-wont-stand/#comments

You’re in your car going to the store one night and you see someone walking down a street in your neighborhood and for some unknown reason you decide the dude looks “suspicious”. You pull over (in front of the club house of your neighborhood) and you call 911 to report that a suspicious dude is walking down the street and that they need to come check him out.

You have a CCL and you are armed. You get out of your car to follow this person and you do so while carrying your weapon….
…and then stop right there.

Doesn’t matter what you insert past opening the door. You just lost your right to stand your ground. Your ground was in the most protective environment you start at.

YOUR ground is in your original position and your obligation as an armed CCL carrier is to AVOID any act that INCREASES the potential to put yourself in danger and result in you using lethal force.

 

Vigilantes generally don't stick around for cops to question them. Just sayin'. Let alone fill out a report and all that junk.

Being attacked and knocked down constitutes as a threat, and has nothing to do with stand your ground, but simple self defense. If this were me I'd have done the same thing. Although it would be nice to see if there was a way to tell if he fired the weapon from the ground or not. And we need to remember this was not the 'innocent callow youth' that the media portrayed him to be with a photograph outdated by atleast 5 years. He was a teenager with significant mass compared to the target.

Whether he was a threat to property or GZ remains irrelevant, the guy was on watch and did what he was supposed to. Just because the police said that he didn't have to doesn't mean he was wrong to do so.

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Trayvon created the dangerous situation, not GZ. Attacking someone creates a dangerous situation. Getting shot sure finalizes the exchange though.

This of course hinges on the belief that GZ is not lying at all in his actions.

 

Can you quote me the statute of Flordia law that says this. Make sure it is Florida law and not the law of somewehere else. I realise you have a problem with understanding that different jurisdictions have different laws (Margot thinnks US law applies in South Africa)

 

Its simple.. George lost his right to SYG when he got out of his truck.. George's ground was the safest place.. his truck.

The prosecution will have to educate the jury.. on the spirit and the letter of the law.

A reponsible gun owner never creates as situation where his/her life or the life of anyone else is in danger.

 

I'm sorry, but I disagree. I feel like there is a bit of a bias for Zimmerman in your statements. Another FACT is that Z has prior assault charges (i know you say the only thing that matters are the facts of the night in question, but if there is a history of violence...i'm sorry, but That matters to a jury) Just because you wouldn't punch someone for following you doesn't mean that no one else would. That is your oppinion, that is not a fact. Everyone handles situations differently, I wouldn't have thrown a punch either, but I punch like a girl (i am a girl ha ha) but given the facts that his girlfriend shared, i think that a jury would be able to see trayvons actions as self defense. Jurors are not robots, they can empathize with a young man that felt threatened by an adult. They will hear his 911 call, him out of breath and admitting that he was following the kid and being told not to. He tried to claim later that he was out of his car so he could find a street sign so he could tell the police where he was......his stories don't match up....he changed them regularly. Jurors will know that too. They will also know, that before any physical attack was made, zimmerman made the choice to go against the suggestion of the police, and get out of his car....If you are looking for where the fault lies, that one action in itself is what caused the entire confrontation. All that being said......he's going to walk. I don't agree with it, but it's true. He deserves a lesser charge, but no way he gets convicted of 2nd degree murder.

 

What the hell do you think is going on?

Pistorius has been charged with premeditated murder because he shot 4 times thru a GD closed bathroom door. Do you also THINK that the LE and the solicitors in SA don't know their own law? LOLOLOL.

You are quite funny.

 

I assure you it is possible, not so much the faces, but the profile. But on a military base, you learn real quick who does and doesn't belong. Neighborhoods aren't much different. Memorizing that many faces and names is tough, but it is possible. But I don't think I am that cool...yet.

Does not matter after the first punch is thrown. Once combat has been initiated you may defend yourself.

I believe you are referring to a Citizen's Duty to Retreat, which is popular in some areas. I am somewhat familiar with it, but it doesn't not require you to retreat from place your frequent such as place of business, home area and so forth. But this is only when a challenge is issue by an aggressor. "if you come here again I'll beat you down!", if you are in a place you usually aren't and you go there again knowing this happened and it can be confirmed you may be accused of Dueling. The law takes a dim view of such things knowing that they could easily have been avoided.

None of this happened, this was impromptu. TM just got hammered is all. Picked the wrong guy.