Know The Enemy of Liberty: the National Rifle Association

With the release of the first episode of the Defending Our America series titled “Know Your Enemies and Know Yourself” the National Rifle Association (NRA) puts itself at the forefront of the shills for tyranny and empire.

http://theinternationallibertarian.blogspot.com/2014/04/know-enemy-of-liberty-national-rifle.html

 

The NRA could not lie straight in bed

I would not trust them with the American ideal of "Liberty" if they were the last group on Earth, They sold out to the armaments industry years ago and have been doing all they can to increase inappropriate firearm use despite the horrific death toll there

They tried to gag the medical profession by stopping paediatricians from inquiring if there was a gun in the house and they nearly shut down the CDC but did manage over a decade of squelching of research

 

Not a big fan of ther Libertarian mindset but they got it right there. I am a long time gun owner and believer in the 2nd A but I have never joined their group for the simple reason is they go too far with their propaganda.

 

Which explains your more moderate and logical outlook in relation to guns

There is nothing inherently wrong with owning a gun - but there should be an acknowledgement that with that comes the responsibility not to wound someone unnecessarily or allow another to be so wounded

 

Got and credible links?

 

Plenty - the CDC thing is a matter of public record because it was an amendment put though the government

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nra-congress-stymied-cdc-gun-research-budget/
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/cdc-nra-kills-gun-violence-research-2013-1
If you read through those links and do not dismiss them out of hand I will post the links on the NRA gagging of medical officers and the funding from the armaments industry

 

All you have provided, has been examples of the NRA resisting hysteria, and emotional manipulation of statistics.

 

And this is why I would not bother spending more of my precious time on those who simply dismiss things out of hand. Shakes head - how any one can call a doctor asking a patient if they have a gun in the house "emotional manipulation of statistics" is beyond me unless of course the links were not read and the facts of the case read.

A doctor asked the mother of the child if there was an unsecured firearm in the house - now the American Academy of Paediatricians is very concerned about unsecured guns in homes - as it would about unsecured medications and poisons. I am assuming that everyone might agree that a gun could, like a poison, be a danger to a child.

The mother went ballistic and put in a formal complaint, the NRA went both ballistic and full metal jacket and pushed through legislation, not just in that state but other states across America preventing health professionals from enquiring about the presence of guns - even mental health professionals

 

The link has the following about the NRA:

"They advocate police power to fight the war on drugs, police power to secure the borders, and military power to fight Islam overseas."

1 - the war on drugs is a disaster and needs to end, plus the police is getting too militarized and antagonistic (and holds themselves above the law).

2 - secure the borders - excellent idea. Secure the border with as much force as required.

3 - military power to fight Islam oversea - excellent idea. Use as much force as required to keep the barbarians away. We like living in the 21st century, we don't want a bunch of illiterates who like living in the 6th century telling us how to live.

So, all in all, good job NRA.

 

You should really get educated before spouting off.

The "gagging" of the AAP was for good reason. It started in Florida because parents were complaining that they were being harassed by pediatricians. They were not being asked about gun ownership in the home as a means to start a discussion or to pass along objective information or to be aware of safety issues in the home, but the parents were being harassed by anti-gun pediatricians. When some parents refused to discuss the subject and stated it was not the pediatricians business, the pediatricians threatened to drop the children as patients. In some South Florida areas, its very difficult to get a pediatrician, which means being dropped is a form of blackmail.

Pediatricians were not asking about pools being safeguarded, medication being stored properly, hazardous cleaning agents being stored properly, or even about car seats. Just guns, and the question was usually followed by an anti-gun lecture. There was no explanation of safe storage or safe handling, just a lecture about guns are dangerous and should be disabled etc. It was not about a concern for the safety of children, it was just an anti-gun agenda.

The AAP also has a history of being a gun ban proponent. They are politically active, and abused their trusted position as medical providers to promote their political agenda.

As a result of complaints, the Florida legislature passed the Firearm Owners Privacy Act in 2011. It was very much a grass roots activity, and the NRA was a welcome late comer to the problem.

The FOP was repealed over First Amendment issues. But the AAP and the pediatricians still got the message.

And with the digitization of medical records and central control due to obamacare, and the circuitous routes used by the banners and obama admin to ban guns, people are now hypersensitive to questions by MD's.

 

The NRA has gotten a little big and commercialized but it was at least partly in response to growing calls for gun control.

I'm still not a member... heck, I'm still a registered Democrat. I need to fix these things.

 

Well, you agree with the first point (about the war on drugs and militarized police), which really is the big issue. So why do you give the NRA a pat on the back for promoting tyranny? As for military power overseas, what does that even have to do with the NRA? Has anyone ever suggested that soldiers not have rifles?

 

I don't give the NRA a pat on the back for promoting tyranny, I give them a pat for the other 2 items they are correct on, and in the background they are a strong advocate for gun rights which is a key element in stopping tyranny.

But the first point (police) was a big negative, and I had to think a moment before giving that pat.

 

The NRA is starting to get a little too close to the establishment in DC. I think the NRA is getting close to the point at which their access to politicians and being a big player is going to color their decisions on guns rights. Maybe they will ease up on some politician because they don't want to lose access. I don't see it yet, but I wonder.

Gun Owners of America is a very good one to join, better than the NRA. GOA is still young and lean and calls it like it is, and may have done more lately to stop the banners than the NRA.

And there is Jews for the Preservation of Firearm Ownership (JPFO). They are small and brutal and blunt (maybe being the repeated victim of genocide does that to people), but don't have the impact of the NRA or GOA.

 

I can see you are attempting to walk away from this discussion, particularly in reference to the "emotional manipulation of statistics". For example, let`s examine the statement of, "A doctor asked the mother of the child if there was an unsecured firearm in the house". It`s been my experience, that there are no more devious, or dishonest people on the planet than anti gunners & greenies. Control freaks, not above deception.

I would not be at all surprised to find the term "unsecured firearm" being used as a component of a trick question, requiring a "yes or no" answer. I wouldn't be surprised to find the term "unsecured firearm" in this instance, to define a draconian set of conditions. For example, if your firearm isn`t buried under seventeen feet of reinforced concrete, we are deeming it "unsecured". SO, is there an "unsecured firearm" in the house?

Firearm safety is obviously paramount, as is parental responsibility (real world), but one of the favourite tactics of sneaky control freaks, is to try to portray humanity by the lowest denominator. I admit suspicion that the term "unsecured firearm", as used in this instance, would be a ploy to portray a range reasonable of situations, as irresponsible parenting.

 

Coming from a U.S. State...Massachusetts...where people are heavily armed and this has Historical reasons as Massachusetts is where the Revolution began and one of the main reasons we have a Right to Bear Arms is because King George of England tried to outlaw people in Massachusetts and the other 12 original colonies from being able to own Firearms.

Coming from this state I can tell you Parents who own Guns are EXTREMELY CAREFUL AND EXTREMELY DEDICATED TO TEACHING THEIR CHILDREN HOW TO TREAT AND HANDLE FIREARMS!!!

My Dad who was and is Military and my Mom who was and is..."CIVILIAN"...in the manner the quotes denote taught me all about the various weapons they owned and had in our home and by the time I was 3 years old I knew to ALWAYS treat every gun as if it was loaded and the safety was off even if I knew it was not loaded.

I could take apart a rifle or shotgun...clean it....and I knew every part of every weapon there was.

Because my Dad and Mom had taken me when I was 3 years old and took several guns and fired them at a variety of targets at a sand bank down the road from my home after I saw what one of my Dad's handguns did to an empty can or corn...I KNEW....I did NOT EVER want to be that CAN!!!

My Mom put a 12 Gauge Pump Action Shot Gun and held it to my shoulder and pulled the trigger.

I still remember today how my shoulder stung for the rest of the day and how I noticed a bruise on my shoulder the next morning.

Because my Mom did this I completely understood the POWER of such weapons and there was absolutely no doubt in my young mind that GUNS were NOT something to play around with.

Now days I sometimes run into these people from NYC who visit neighbors of mine as I live in an absolutely beautiful area of the country and in Fall Western Massachusetts Foliage is otherworldly and stunning beyond compare and I have actually seen a woman from Turkey burst into tears viewing it.

Anyways when I explained what my Mom and Dad did for me to teach me to respect Firearms these people from NYC looked at me in disgust and told me they would NEVER allow their children to TOUCH a Firearm and that they would do their best to not discuss what they felt was a topic best suited for Neanderthals!!!

I asked them why they did not want their children to know how to treat guns and even if they never owed weapons why they would want their children to be left in the dark and perhaps someday be over a friends house and then find that friends parents handgun??

They didn't have much of a response to that.

They might consider me to be a Neanderthal but I consider them to be IDIOTS!!!

AboveAlpha

 

Blather

Not rebuttal but blather........

Now I will continue the discussion on the NRA - not for my esteemed Australian compatriot but as an exercise to show what an underhanded and despicable dishonest and unethical organisation it has become

;
bd

 

Although training helps - as does scaring kids unfortunately kids turn into teenagers - you know that time when excess hormones cause synaptic disconnect,,,,,,, add to that a belief in invincibility, experimentation and risk taking behaviour and you have a recipe for tragedy

The American Academy of paediatricians do recommend securing firearms in the home in such a manner as to prevent easy access by teens in particular.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/130/5/e1416.full

A

 

The NRA has done more to educate adults and children about gun safety than any other existing organization and the victims of GUN CRIMES and LETHAL GUN ACCIDENTS are without a doubt over 99% NON-NRA MEMBERS!!!

There is one gleaming and irrefutable fact about VIOLENT CRIMES AND GUN RELATED CRIMES.

That is HEAVILY ARMED COMMUNITIES HAVE A VASTLY LOWER RATE OF SUCH CRIMES THAN COMMUNITIES THAT ARE NOT HEAVILY ARMED!!! PERIOD!!

AboveAlpha

 

My point is when kids are educated to firearms in the manner I am and as in my town have NRA and Police run Firearm Safety Courses as in my Town all the kids could not wait to turn 12 so they could participate in such programs with their Mom's and Dad's so they could get their FID and carry a weapon.

Because of this program...THERE HAS NEVER BEEN AN ACCIDENTAL GUN RELATED DEATH OF A CHILD OR TEEN IN MY TOWN....EVER!

AboveAlpha

 

Parents or parent. This is one of the reasons why the law was overturned - it was based on a couple of anecdotes that were blown all out of proportion to what was actually happening. Even if your 'take" on this is correct then how is restricting the first amendment right of all paediatricians in the state an appropriate response?

HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT??

Honestly - how do you know that to be true - was there a survey of mothers of children? Was there recordings of private discussions? Was there any indication other than some upset women with set ideas. I can absolutely assure you of one thing - those same women would have been counselled about vaccination and may even have been told if they do not vaccinate do not bother brining the child back - was there a law passed preventing medical officers from discussing vaccination?

Actually if you read their statements they are NOT anti-gun. They are anti-gun injury..../

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/130/5/e1416.full

Says nothing about banning guns-It does advocate for gun safety - preventing illegal sales to minors (not adults, just kids) and a few other things that usually has the gun nuts on here screaming "thin edge of the wedge" but they do NOT advocate for banning. Even if they DID - What is the big deal? Surely another person can hold an opinion that differs and under the first amendment have a right to speak that opinion

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Again - how many???

That did not stop the NRA pushing for the enactment of this law in other states

 

That is good and wonderful AA but unfortunately your little slice of the USA is not typical - you have a firearm death rate in children that is not only higher than those in other industrialised countries but higher than the combined death rate of many of those countries so something is going wrong. Just blaming it on "gangs" is a cop out

 

d
That still does not excuse it from lobbying to get the CDC shut down for doing research it did not like or from trying to get the first amendment repealed

 

The point is such deaths do not occur in Communities that have NRA and Police run programs and extremely heavily armed communities such as mine as you could go to our local Fish and Game on a Friday Night and find peoples GRANDMOTHERS using the indoor range it has....well such communities like mine where Crime and Gun Related Violence and Death is at practically ZERO% are communities that have an overwhelming number of citizens that are members of the NRA.

Now I am not supporting the idea that anyone should be allowed to buy Firearms and Ammo without a background check like some states allow as that is just plain stupid but by and by the NRA is a GOOD THING.

AboveAlpha

 

The NRA was right to do this as it is NO ONES BUSINESS whether or not I or YOU have a GUN in our homes.

Such a thing would eventually be used as an excuse by INSURANCE COMPANIES to charge even higher premiums and as it is now if a person even SMOKES CIGARS....as I don't smoke but on RARE occasion I will smoke a cigar which I do not inhale and my Doctor asked this of me and I told him I sometimes smoke a cigar.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED!!!!????

MY HEALTH INSURANCE PREMIUM WENT UP $40 A MONTH as my Doctor had to send in my specifics to the Insurance Company and the damn Insurance Company declared me to be a SMOKER!!!!

AboveAlpha