LGBT bill to ban therapy for youth on sexual orientation issues is stalled in Mass.

Please stop misrepresenting my argument. I didn't say it should only be nurtured. I don't recall saying anything about nurturing it at all.

It's a giant leap from acceptance to nurturing.

If professionals believe it can be treated, the burden is in them to prove its not harmful.

I'm not saying they can't prove that, all I'm asking fur is the proof.

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Is it an exaggeration? Why?

 

Well if it's your argument that sexual orientation is something that is influenced by "life stuff" than it is your burden to prove that.

What is "life stuff?"

I'm genuinely curious what could happen in a man's life to make him all of the sudden desire the same or opposite sex. Thus simply has never happened to me and I am curious.

 

I become very sceptical if these attacks on religion in this regard. There are times when governing bodies attack religion. I'm not claiming they don't.

Occasionally religion seems to be a little narcissistic. Any discovery or change in thinking that goes against a tenet in a particular religion isn't an attack on that religion. It's actually how western culture came out of the dark ages. In some cases it's actually enlightenment.

If knowledge and enlightenment is an attack on religion, religion is doomed. It has nothing to do with government.

 

Somebody actually told me that the scientific community attacks religion. Some people believe this.

 

It does have a lot to do with government. Please don't be naive about the political forces in this country. The research is oftentimes funded by government contracts, to ideology-friendly organizations that seek similar politically correct outcomes. It happens on both sides.

 

The APA thinks nature and nurture play significant roles. I don't think sudden is how it happens.

 

Rewiring the brain. Impossible?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-hubbard/can-mindfulness-rewire-ou_b_6081918.html

 

I don't believe the government is out to get religion. That honestly appears to be a combination of a persecution complex and existential angst.

Religion wants desperately to remain relevant, but it doesn't want to compromise it's rigidity. People don't fear the threats of damnation any more. We know that religions are mistaken about some things. It's hard to tell people that eternal damnation awaits fire everybody that doesn't attend church.

That's really all religion has to offer. It's in decline, it isn't being attacked.

 

I don't really know

Still not sure what "life stuff" is or how it alters sexual orientation completely. Gradually or suddenly doesn't really make a difference.

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Thus far reprogramming sexual orientation is hypothetical.

 

This is a little difficult to articulate, but I'll give it my best shot.

A lot of secularists oppose whatever they think is religious, for the sake of opposing religion, and not necessarily because that particular idea or belief is bad. Not always, but definitely when it comes to sexual orientation. Many people wrongly believe opposition to homosexuality is entirely religious based. If you look through the APA material, you'll find it's a consistent theme. Is it true? Well, a simple anthropological and historical examination of it says no. There are many "non-Abrahamic" peoples throughout the world that have opposed it since time and memoriam.

 

That was a near verbatim quote from APA. They think it's both nature and nurture.

Trauma, pornography, prison...there are many life events than can alter a person's sexual preferences. There is evidence that porn rewires the brain. I believe it can lead to a change, not in orientation, which denotes something we're born with, but in preferences, which do change with prolonged exposure.

Scientist used to believe the brain was hardwired and couldn't change. They know that's not true now. They used to believe sexual attraction was based on reproductive instinct, i.e. her ability to breed and so forth. If that were true, most of us would desire the same form in sexual partners, but we don't.

 

Of course it isn't religious. religions are invented by people in order to institutionalize such prejudices. I would say there are no reasons to oppose the sexual orientation of others outside of existential angst.

 

Yes, I read that the first time. I still don't know.

Trauma? I have read this vague declaration many times. What kind of trauma? Pornography, really, how? Many people go to prison but aren't gay. Evidence suggests that going to prison doesn't have an effect on sexual orientation.

Post it.

I don't believe looking at pornography or being raped in prison or some vague "trauma" can change a sexual orientation. Further a sexual orientation doesn't denote something we're born with. It indicates what sex you are oriented toward.

I disagree the science of attraction is largely instinctual. if most of us were exactly the same yes we probably would desire mates that are exactly the same. That is a generalization, i believe it ignores the differences among people.

 

The key word there is individuals. If we're talking about adults who choose conversion therapy of their own accord, I'm fine with that. Do I think it works? No, I think it's complete crap. But if a legal adult wants to do it, more power to them. We are talking about minors being dropped off at conversion therapy institutions, many times against their will. That is a whole different ballgame. Minors should not be subject to conversion therapy. If they are old enough to do research and make a well informed decision, fine go to town.

 

Not for being gay, but for the crappy way people still treat them for being gay. Simple solution, quit treating homosexuality like a defect or a disease, and kids won't hate themselves and feel hopeless.

 

Even in depraved mecca's like San Francisco where incurable diseases like HIV/AIDS run rampant, the suicide rate amongst those who engage in homosexuality/transexualism is disproportionately high.. When I become more familiar with PF.com, I'll start a thread entitled "Why Homosexuality MUST Be Recriminalized!" and link information backing everything that I say.

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Yeah, all of those 'gay' bathhouses and public park bushes does make it "easier" for homosexual males to have sex doesn't it? Regarding STD's: again, the CDC reports (that I will link at a later date) say differently.

JONAH (Jews Offering New Alternatives for Healing) use both, as do the majority of therapists that want to get to the core of the problem and do something about it.

I'd tell you: "Thanks for your time, but I'm going to NARTH."

Don't cha just hate it when people leave homosexual behavior and often times homosexual desires behind? It truly is a threat to the "Born Gay" movement. Heck, if it was shown that homosexuality is a changeable behavior, hate crime legislation would no longer be necessary. Hmmmmmm.

 

OK!...

 

Nobody changes their sexual orientation. They just lie about it. So no it doesn't threaten anything accept for silence, with the laughing and all.

 

Negative aspects of homosexuality claimed by 'straights', both imagined and real, are mostly the result of the kind of bigotry our species has imposed . What are you 'straights' so afraid of if not the gayness buried within yourselves?
There's one thing I'm sure about in homophobia, a twisted feature of male hetro misogyny. The very idea of any male taking the passive role is sex fills them with loathing and fear because doing so they equate with acting the role of a woman, to them a degrading role. Simple really.

 

You don't have to accept anything, and nobody is forcing anything on you. Ignore it; homosexuality doesn't compromise you or affect you negatively in any way whatsoever unless you want it to.

 

It does affect them negatively in that the fear of such urges coming from within is a primal force they cannot easily control. There is a psychiatric term for severe cases of this fear "homosexual panic".

 

Then minors shouldn't have abortions either, with or without parental consent.

 

We agree there, abortions as a form of birth control are a perversion of our medical capabilities.
Sex education and contraception needs to be a priority thought as early as possible. We have tried the religious abstinence method, it is time to move wholly to methods that are effective.

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Why wait?

 

There it is again. If there's even a hint of religion, it's baaaaaaad. As if abstinence MUST be a construct of religion anyway. Think of the stupidity and cut my nose off to spite my face mentality it must take for a person NOT to teach abstinence.

Contrary to popular belief, prior to the 60's Americans weren't screwing everything that moves. Our culture of abstinence and monogamy worked very well. As late as the 70's three out of every four black children were in a home with a father. Secular humanism and hedonism created this problem. Why should we look to it for answers?

 

Not true. Some do change their orientation. There have been examples posted here. When you use terms like "nobody, everybody, all" you're not being intellectually honest. We're talking about human sexuality, which is so much more diverse and dynamic mentally and physically that there's no way you can definitively claim that all people are either: born gay, cannot change, or just about any other absolute you can name.