(Hope you'll pardon the "snippage"; I think your post has plenty of good points, and just want to say a bit more about the one above.) Not to imply that straight people have it easy, but the lack of positive socialization surrounding same-sex orientation has a profound effect. As teens becoming adults, gay kids tend to find themselves ostracized by peers, or isolate themselves because of the lack of trust mentioned before in the thread. On top of all this, we are not encouraged to partake in the kinds of social events that support heterosexuality. Take the Prom as an example - I never went to a single one - because I "understood" that gay people don't get to take real dates to Prom, that it was a "heteros only" institution. It wasn't that I felt undeserving, or that I wasn't good enough - only that I felt excluded. I actually had two girls that expressed interest in being my "date" for Prom, but I wasn't about to take either one of them. Living in a rural community, it wasn't as if I had any prospects for taking a "real" date either - because nobody was "out" at my school. They were only "out" after they "escaped". Now, could I have taken a same-sex date to Prom? Can't say for certain that I couldn't have, but I think it extremely unlikely. Gay teens don't learn how to date under the watchful eyes of parents with mixed emotions about having to deal with the fact that their "babies" are growing into adulthood. We got nothing on that score when I was a teen. Even as a young adult, I "understood" that gay people didn't date; they either visited cruising spots for anonymous encounters (which was so dangerous I wouldn't have ever even considered it), or snuck into seedy bars with overpriced, watered down drinks under the protective cover of darkness. I "understood" that gay people didn't have long-term relationships, because I had been indoctrinated with the understanding that marriage wasn't an option for those relationships. So it galls me when people point to "gay promiscuity" or closeted men cruising parks and bathrooms, and then claim this is the "gay lifestyle" - without any consideration for why gay people - whose sexual behavior was still criminalized in some states (mine included) just 9 years ago - would perpetuate behavior that arises from the stigmatizing and the lack of socialization they experience surrounding their orientation and relationships. Create a situation where we have no options, and then blame us for pursuing the only ones that appear available to us. Not to mention that there's no shortage of people who would like to return to what for gay people was the "bad old days". Call me an "assimilationist" if you like, but the "freedom" of living an "alternative lifestyle" involving no commitment or responsibility to a long-term partner was never a life that I wanted. I feel very fortunate to have found my partner, especially in light of the fact that it happened at a point in my life where I was ready to just give up on love altogether, resigned to living my life alone with no one to share the good times and bad times. So I won't apologize for wanting a good life, or for finally realizing that what constitutes a good life for me is having the stability of a committed relationship, whether or not it ever enjoys any legal recognition or social approval. Gay people have been figuring out life for themselves without the support of family, law, or "the church" for a long time. I won't pretend that life wouldn't be easier if we enjoyed societal acceptance, but I have no expectation that people must embrace and approve of my life. And I'm not going to act all grateful to individuals who do, as if they were giving me some great gift. The condescension of well-meaning people rankles me only slightly less than the attempted bullying from people who try to tell me I'm not a true American, not part of American society, etc. Because both demand that I see myself as something less than I am: their inferior. Well, that's a great deal more than I intended to say. I hope it helps others understand just one gay person's perspective on the world.
please elaborate on "well meaning people" would not the best thing be that you are treated like every other schlub? My hunch is that most people and that is a big majority most could care less what you do. But, if you don't hold the door open for me when my hands are full then you're an (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) and not because you are gay. If you steal from me then you're a crook. If you're playing football with us, missed your block and I got knocked on my butt then I'm yelling at you because I got knocked on my butt, not because you're gay.
Not every parent reacts the same for the same reason, but my mother tried to explain it for me briefly. Wondering what she did wrong Worrying that I would be promiscuous and get some std Worrying that I would be mistreated and unfulfilled by others Upset that she should have seen it and been able to provide me with support Upset that her (Mormon) family might reject me, and her. She even mentioned grandchildren. Most of it was her worrying about my emotional and physical well being, questioning what she should have done different and should do going forward. I may have been the same baby she carried after birth, but she suddenly had a whole new set of worries about my future and regrets about my past. She has a big heart, and rejecting me was never on the table. She was just stressed, and neither of us knew how to handle the situation. Tension started to subside a few months after I told her. My report was written in the middle of it. I had it pretty easy. Others worry about their child going to hell, thinking them responsible, and worrying how it will erect their reputation. And yet other parents would be unphased by their child coming out. Not all parents are treated alike.
honestly; grandchildren is big with us parents. I can't explain it. I expect a crop when my kids are older. Maybe it's because I like Disney movies and would probably creep people out if I go see them without kids. soooo, grandkids will allow me to go to Disney World and Disney movies all over again like when my kids were younger. It's tough to explain. I have a healthy sex life but if I see a young, attractive mother with a kid in a carriage or a toddler bee bopping around I can't take my eyes off of the kid. I just smile and strike up a conversation about the kid. Sure I'll quickly "check her out" but the kid is much more interesting. There's just something about parenting and maybe being a grandparent rekindles that. Selfish, sure.
actually it's quite on topic for you here's another post form you to dislike so have it and I say it again. Since you have nothing to offer in this thread aren't there any liberal, pro-big govt threads here which you can salivate over instead of doing the usual dislikes which has become your M.O. ?
It's a great topic, indeed. I find it very interesting that others can express so well, the kinds of things I went through as a young gay person. Someone earlier in the thread asked why the author would keep track of a paper from so young in their lives. To that, my internal response was: "I WISH I had kept such writings as that myself. It helps a great deal, to remember the things one has dealt with and overcome. What I am happy about, is that 15 or so years ago when I started participating in fora such as this one, it was very rare that a homosexual people could express anything like that letter, without a thread becoming chaotic; the fear and hatred lobbed AT someone for sharing something like that... was WAY too much for many to handle. I can say that things aren't perfect now, but they've improved. As for me disliking posts... that is the quickest way for me to honestly express my opinion. I use the functions the forum provides. If someone does not wish to participate here... then they have the option to choose something else. Still, if I bother you that much with my ways, you can IGNORE ME!!
Honestly I was surprised to see such a concurrent response from others. I never knew for sure how common my story was. I've done some reflecting on my own experiences, but I haven't often asked others about their own, particularly asking how the secrecy effected them. Frankly, I don't know if even matters if I did ask, as I don't think you can easily tell how it effected you without careful reflection. The secrecy really is a plague among us, and I can't imagine how you kept it into your 40's. My stomach does backflips just thinking about my teen years and how isolated it was. And that's not to say I'm prancing around nowadays with a rainbow tee on and bumper sticker, announcing to everyone in the world. Just my family and friends, people who typically would be around myself and my partner. It makes all the difference in the world to me that I don't have to keep up the lie and double life with them. It's sad many of us grew up without any role models or guidance, carrying secrets we feared would make even our own families hate us, that we grow up without the typical social structures like Prom or even casual dating under the guidance of adults that allow us to develop healthy sexualities, and that instead we're just bombarded with stereotypes that tell us we can't have long, fulfilling relationships, and should instead be seeking casual flings in secrecy for fear of being identified. Now that said, may I ask what changed in your 40's that brought you out? Some culmination of an internal dilemma, some external factor that influenced your life directly, or just an overall shifting in attitudes from society in general? Or some combination of all of the above? You maintained your secrecy for quite some time, but did you do anything on the "down low"? Or was it completely hidden and never acted upon? Hope you don't mind me asking, but I'm curious what your experience has been as a closeted adult. If it's something you'd rather not get into, particularly on a public forum, that's fine, doesn't hurt to ask
Oh yeah, I remember the 'back-flip' days... well. Being "horny", but hiding it by playing a heterosexual role. Superficial BS, that I put out there to stay 'safe'. Yes. It was harder to find the right place to plant my feet, with respect to relationships and human sexuality... due to having to work most out alone. Religion helped me to a large degree, especially since it worked on other aspects of being human not directly related to "sex" per se. What I learned in church, helped me to learn to care about others as people first. And thankfully that carried over into virtually every relationship or encounter (sexual or otherwise) I had with another person. Caring about the well-being of the other person, translates sexually into things like considering the other person's health status, your own and taking precautions to keep them from being hurt (emotionally or physically). For example, if I knew someone was cheating on their mate/wife, or having trouble in an ongoing relationship... I would steer clear of that kind of thing. Those kinds of things (self-control), religion DID help with (for sure). But religion did not change or 'fix' my sexual-orientation. Now you get the LONG story (but as briefly as I can tell it): I went into the military when I was 18; thought it would be a great idea (it was). It's funny too, when the recruiter asked me about my sexuality, I really didn't know enough about being homosexual, to think/accept that I really was (I was certain that I'd eventually "man-up" and grow out of such questionable things). There I was, in Basic Training, not really horny the whole time... learning what soldiers do (their job). It was like being in a giant family of awesome brothers. After basic training and into my technical training, I began to realize that this "gay" thing was still plaguing me; I got deeper into religion than ever, and stayed deeply into it for 20+ years. During that time, I learned to quietly have a sexual encounter or two... rarely with any member of the military and certainly not within my unit (I knew that was a bad idea). Coming "out" was not an option for a career military guy. And yeah, people wondered occasionally why I was not dating (or later, married); and my closest friends would sometimes notice that I didn't look at women with that certain kind of "interest"; I didn't look at guys that way either. I was horny a lot, but always understood well, that sex wasn't 'everything'; my relationships were like being a brother... and I'm fond overall for that to this day. I was in my mid-30's, before I knew it. And by that time, I began to question why I was still a "homosexual" (in the religious sense). It was like, "Hmmm God... why am I STILL gay; what gives?" I was a deep believer and follower, and I don't regret that. But there came a point where I couldn't take the cognitive dissonance and feeling I was picking up in the church (anti-homosexual doctrines). I knew that some people were wondering why I wasn't LOOKING for that right woman to be with, and I wasn't about to cause a conflict/confrontation in that scenario... I knew what they believed and realized that stepping out/away was the best course of action. I cannot make light of that though, it was like leaving a family behind; it was depressing and I eventually had to get counseling. I was about 43 years old at that point. I retained my faith in Jesus Christ, but had a long road to finding additional answers about being gay/Christian. Most of that is explained above, I think. But the overall answer is, yes. And honestly, I'm not "out" per se... but I don't actively try to hide my sexuality as much as I did before DADT was repealed. I literally had the fear of losing all of my retirement (denied), if I were caught or found out. That is something I prayed about a LOT!! Even so, I knew that I could not control all of everything, so part of me was ready for what could happen. Even so, I'm not 'out' but to immediate family and a few close and loyal friends. I've never had a "boyfriend" or "husband"... but I did whore-it-up for a short period in my life. That was mitigated by caring for others and realizing that going WILD could jeopardize my military career. I always treat people respectfully; sex isn't about USING people. Oh yeah, my whole sexual life has been on the "down low"; but now with DADT done away with, it's just level and awesome. I'm not 'out', but the lock is off of the 'closet' door. Now that being gay is legal in the military, the atmosphere around the discussion of sexual-orientation is much more relaxed. You have your more homophobic types there, but even they are realizing that gays aren't animalistic sex-monsters as many have depicted them as being; we're HUMAN, like others. Again, I'd have left out a LOT more details from above, had DADT still been in place today. And while I don't want to go public consciously with this, I find it awesome that I can now walk through the local mall with a pal, express a bit more affection and not worry about my Commander or other troop seeing 'something' they should report...etc. And the greatest blessing of all, is seeing that most of the the younger troops take being "gay" in stride, like someone being red-headed or left-handed. I'm proud of America, President Obama and the decisions made.
from what I've read from you, your HS years were the days of wite-out (a play on write and white), correction tape and an IBM Selectric was way better than a Smith Corona but we couldn't afford them. Spell checker was something you did with a dictionary or else points were deducted from your grade because our teachers actually knew how to spell and knew the difference between lose and loose and that prevent-a-tive is not a word, that it's preventive. Anyway, something I've noted by posters. You all assumed that your folks would be all upset. In the end, you found out for the most part the opposite was true. We love our children and yes, we want grandkids. But, we want our kids to be healthy and to outlive us- most important happy- as best you can and that does not mean a millionaire or billionaire law abiding- we don't want you stealing or hurting people charitable- to give of your time to those less fortunate and to good causes and that does not mean working on a political campaign self-sufficient: we don't want you to look to others or the govt to support you. respectful- we parents are not perfect and you didn't come with an owners manual when you were born. Give us a break sometime because in the end no matter what, we love you. If you're a guy and want to be with another guy then so be it but yes, we're scared to death that you'll get AIDS so please get him and yourself tested. And if you're a girl and want to be with a girl, please don't get all those piercings, buzz cut hair and tattoos. That's just not a good look for any woman.
why would I ignore you? That's just silly. Sometimes you make good points and other times you simply go into intolerant liberal diatribe. I weed out the liberal stuff and focus on salient points.
One day....one day, parents will be able to help their children ease into early adulthood (teen years if you wish) and deal with the issue of sexuality as their children are beginning to understand it, so that their children become adults with a healthy sense of sexuality, however it's expressed in them, heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual. This will allow people to become adults in all senses of the word, without fear that they are somehow "different" or "strange" because of their sexuality. The one thing I would not want to see in my child in their development into adulthood and adult sexuality would be anything approaching cruelty or humiliation (but heck if they get into consensual BDSM as adults that's their business, besides it's probably fetish play anyway) towards their partner(s) or other people.
would that be during the VERY RARE times when their hormones aren't so out of whack that they are the devil incarnate? from 11-16 is no easy ride for parents either. You hang on as tightly as possible during the wild ride knowing that your child will eventually settle down.
Unfortunately that's not something you can easily know or believe until after the fact. We can't see into the future, and we have no guidance on the matter... fear of the unknown rules until that point.
I remember visiting my family who was stationed in an overseas airforce base. By this point, I was "out" with them, and my stepmother (the woman that she is) decided it was high time for me to go to a gay bar. The bar was filled mostly with airforce men, several of whom took an interest in me... until they found out who's son I was, at which point I was defiantly taken off the interest list. I almost feel bad for being there, knowing my presence made them uneasy and perhaps fearful that I might say something to their superior officer. I didn't, of course, but I'm glad you guys don't have to worry about this all the time, worry about being spotted even in private locations, worry that you'll loose your career, retirement and livelihood. I have a hard time understanding how one could stay in the closet for so long, but those are some serious pressures to deal with, not to mention the pressures from your religion. May you live long and happy, and good luck finding that someone if you're looking .
Thanks Jeff!! I have to admit that I'm very happy right now. We've all heard people say that experiencing 'X' "builds character" (usually jokingly)... but I can tell you that dealing with that for so many years, has made me strong like a Jedi overall. And as far as you being looked-at in that gay bar by the military guys, I can relate to that. I didn't go to any gay bars in the U.S. or overseas, because there was a higher probability that Investigative Officers would hang out there to 'catch' military members (saying/doing whatever). My general rule was look at the beautiful guys... but don't touch, don't talk. The day they repealed DADT, was probably the greatest feeling of 'relief' I had ever experienced to that point. It felt so good, it cannot put it into words here. The thing I have enjoyed most, is helping the young troops I know/suspect are gay to accept themselves. Because I KNOW almost every negative, degrading thing that anti-gay people will say to put homosexuals down. Though that language is no longer allowed in the military... I remember what it felt like to carry the effects of that hatred around with you as a person. A lot of people are hurting when they come into the military; moving away from home was probably the best thing they ever did. Anyway, I think I should write a 'novel' (based tightly upon the truth)... to make a few bucks and to help people who went through or are going through the same things I did.
