Obama's dirty secret: the fossil fuel projects the US littered around the world

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Ctrl, Dec 2, 2016.

  1. Ctrl

    Ctrl Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    https://www.theguardian.com/environ...-morning-briefing_b-morning-briefing_c-US_d-1

    Oh dear... Say it isn't so! The climate change champion secretly pouring billions into dirty fuel projects around the world to the detriment of the worlds poorest people? Tell me more about how I was duped by Trump. The most transparent administration. Keep your plan, keep your doctor. Champion of civil liberties. Dismantler of spying aparatus used against Americans. Yes tell me more about how WE have been played for fools.

    Have you the stomach to read the whole article? If you are going to try and defend it, I demand that you do.
     
  2. Ctrl

    Ctrl Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No outrage from the eco-warriors? Not even the ones outside the states? Cmon...
     
  3. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    I don't have much trouble defending it.

    Getting, and keeping clean energy incentives to grow that industry in the United States required a lot of compromises with the very powerful fossil fuel industry int the United States, and the Republicans who are its handmaidens.

    The most obvious example is the Obama Administration's decision to support lifting the ban on US oil experts, which was a deal struck to keep alternative energy subsidies alive.

    The Export Import Bank exists to lend or guarantee loan for project being built with American equipment and create American jobs.

    It has no jurisdiction over how the host country manages these projects, or what choices they make.

    You may want to rant about the apparant hypocricy of that, but to people in the world outside the US, this sort of two faced policy is what the United States is known for.

    Now that Trump has repudiated the Trans Pacific Partnership, leaving the region covered in this article to the Chinese, you can take assurance from the fact that the next time a new LNG facility, natural gas power plant, or coal plant is built in India, Australia, or Indonesia, the financing will come from Chinese Banks. The boilers for new plants in Asia will not be made by Babcock and Wilcox, the turbines not by General Electric, and Allis Chalmers won't make the crushers for the coal operations, Chinese firms will.

    The American jobs will go away.

    Hope that makes you feel better.
     
  4. Ctrl

    Ctrl Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I look forward to your supporting these assertions, that it was some sort of compromise with republicans out on their skull shaped island, as these efforts went around congress using executive order or unapproved agreements.

    Ill wait.
     
  5. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    I am not clear on what point you're making.

    If you're trying to assert that the lifting of the ban on US oil exports was the result of an executive order, that simply isn't true.

    http://www.economist.com/news/finan...ts-end-crude-market-distortions-america-lifts

    Congress does not approve or disapprove loans made by the Export Import Bank.

    Trump's decision to cede economic supremacy in Southeast Asia to the Chinese had nothing to do with Congress or Obama.
     
  6. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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  7. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    IF you watched what passes for a discussion around here on that particular topic, you are doubtless aware that most of our alt right friends have no idea what the Ex Im Bank is or what it does.
     
  8. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Remember the hysteria over Petrobras a few years ago? LOLOL
     
  9. Ctrl

    Ctrl Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I thought I was quite clear. you said
    The clean energy incentives were penned in, through EO and international agreement outside of congress, yet you assert that there was some compromise required for them which justifies what this administration has done.

    I await evidence of this.
     
  10. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    See Margot's post. The GOP was already to pander to the knuckledraggers by killing the Export Import Bank (it had that nasty word Export in it). It made no sense at all.

    But every right wing idiot on this forum was foaming at the mouth over it.
     
  11. jackdog

    jackdog Well-Known Member

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    He who has the energy controls the world. Globalist liberals want to weaken the western world and the easiest way to do that is to drive energy prices through the roof. The UNs plan is to enrich developing countries like China and India and weaken Europe and the USA

    Australia is one to watch. They export 73% of their coal production while https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_in_Australia while almost 25% of the families there have a hard time paying their electric bills. Of course the Aussie governments answer is build more high cost part time energy sources like solar and wind instead of using less expensive full time energy sources such as coal and natural gas

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/ener...o-lowerincome-households-20160629-gpu8ve.html

    The Australian Energy Markets Commission, which monitors activity in the country's electricity and gas markets and provides advice to the country's federal and state energy ministers, has warned that nearly one family in four finds it difficult to keep the lights and heaters on.
     
  12. cupAsoup

    cupAsoup Well-Known Member

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    This is an easy defense, though none would be needed if OP had done his homework on the function and capabilities of the EXIM.

    I'll repeat what has already been posted.
    http://www.exim.gov/about

    Note that the EXIM helps the private sector. Also, note that every loan possibility that comes through the EXIM doesn't appear on Obama's desk for approval. I can only imagine the right wing outrage that would follow if Obama mandated (which he doesn't have the power to do so unilaterally) that only renewable energy companies be allowed access to funding. Further, the host countries of these fossil fuel projects have little to no regulation dealing with the impact a mine or a plant can have on their land, and simply welcome the foreign investment. If they are not willing to take steps to protect their people, why is it the responsibility of a lending apparatus to write the environmental laws of a foreign country

    It's a nice attempt at a smear job, since the EXIM is part of the executive branch. It fails when one takes a cursory glance at the capabilities and function of the EXIM, and how much direct influence Obama has over their lending. No other president has done more to further renewable energy than Obama. Fact.

    It's also amusing to see this article pop up when we're about to have a president take over who is a climate change denying neanderthal who cannot wait to pollute anything he can get his tiny little hands on.
     
  13. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    President Trump will be honest about polluting our air and water to make the rich richer with fossil fuels, the democrats lie about it.

    so yes, he is the lesser evil, and no one who voted for him is duped.
     

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