Oregon Considers Banning Gay-To-Straight Conversion Therapy For Children

Since you claim government should outlaw certain options of psychiatrists to prevent them from otherwise doing evil, why do you cite evil psychiatrists as your proof?

Virtually all political slogans are lies and the extreme efforts to ban and change the definitions of words often at the core. An example is "pro-life" rather than "anti-abortion," "unborn child" rather than "fetus," and life begins at "'conception" rather than fertilization.

The same is true as in your message of the word "reparative," which you ADD to the word "conversion," claiming they are the same, when they are not the same at all.

Definition of REPARATIVE
1: of, relating to, or effecting repair
2: serving to make amends

It is amazing that the left now is furiously declaring "more mental health" to avoid gun violence, while also raging "no mental health" for victims of gender-related psychological issues due to severe sexual and psychological abuse. This is a common, if the most common history of serial rapists and serial rapist-murderers. In this can be severe confusions, disturbances and issues about their gender, gender-sexuality, and towards others in gender-based ways.

I could give a couple of examples of people I know well, in which exploring what their true sex-gender nature is, severe or troubling issues involve gender in terms of self identity and towards others was not only severely harming the person's life, but also had and was very adversely affecting the lives of others, for one including violently and in gender-sexual context. The professional is a psychiatrist in the specific field related to extreme sexual and sex-gender issues. There is a shortage of such true professionals as it is. Most people needing help are turned away simply because there are too many in need.

Both were "reparative" therapy, but since the sexual-gender-relationship natures of both did change, it also could be called in the final effect "conversation therapy," for which that highly respected psychiatrist - of which there are few - should have her medical-psychiatry license revoked and her practice shut down in your opinion and would be under that Oregon law. Accomplish that and not only is there no help for her patients (most who are victims of past severe sexual abuse in their childhood and youth), but you also will have more and more violent sex predators who will continue until caught and imprisoned - and then again if ever released - as helping them is outlawed. Then again, some people do believe PRISON is the solution to all problems anyone has. Are you one of those? Imprison all childhood victims of violent and sexual abuse?

The reparative therapy DID involve exploring the "true" gender identity and gender-relationship desires of the person, IF negative psychological issues were resolved, which isn't particularly easy, can take an evolution across time, can involve risk-taking exploration, and to some degree the psychiatrist forming his/her own best educated calculation of who the person inside REALLY is if the abuse damage is erased and/or adjusted for. In a sense, both changed their sexual-gender orientation. The seeming heterosexual became actively bi. The other was so dual personality - both intensely aggressive and violent - that gender and sexuality was extremely bipolar is a multi-personality way. The view of the psychiatrist was that she clearly is lesbian - likely due to exorbitant abuse by men her entire youth, but that is who she is now.

The issue, instead, was of her extreme levels of aggressiveness and violent towards both genders in relationships and her extreme duality over all. Yet since then she has married to another woman in her only ever successful relationship and now having her own family, where all prior relationship she has been in - male or female - failed almost immediately and in which she had been intensely - and violently - abusive including in sexuality. Prior? She was increasingly a walking violent time bomb that occasionally was going off, harming people in real ways, not just harming herself.

Both are notable as the final result was that neither was "repaired" into a final best-cure-possible for which neither fall neatly into the heterosexual OR homosexual model. Both their relationships now are unusual, but workable for both both them and their partner(s). They are happy. So are their partners. So are their children. Rather that trying to put them in a stereotypical gender box, instead to lead them into into a clearer and healthy self identity rendering the person a good or better life and harming no one else either.

The simplistic "conversion therapy is bad!" and that it is the same as "reparative therapy" because the gay community has a slogan they demand politicians make law - pointing to some faux religious "counselor" using electro-shock and starvation - is a potential disaster, including for society.

But if you are going to stick to it, at least don't post any messages about mental health and gun violence. You want to replace psychiatry with simplistic political-left PC slogans. But the fact is that people don't neatly fit into the little box you want everyone to be in. And it is the people not in that box that are the danger to others and themselves.

 

yes I agree.

 

Lovely diatribe,but the subject of this thread does not concern gender identity issues.
Also; your attempt to politicize said subjects has been noted.

 

You seem to be completely missing what conversion therapy is....it is seeking to convert a persons sexuality from homosexual to heterosexual.

And yes I agree completely that we should leave the doctoring to the doctors. Which is why the irresponsible idiots who run conversion therapy, mostly from churches and religious organizations, should not be allowed to practice it legally. They are doing irreprable harm to these at risk teens and because of that the suicide rates in these "therapies" is through the roof.

 

That is part of the topic. Your ubber simplistic view about people is certainly easy thinking, but inaccurate.

To claim legislation before the Oregon government for consideration isn't political is bizarre. Politics isn't political. LOL

Overall you had no response, but that's ok. Neither of us will be making any of the decisions anyway - fortunately.

 

I understand exactly what "conversion therapy" is. I understand how the gay community narrowly defines it as attempted by religious counselors to convert homosexuals to heterosexuals, which you believe is ALL it means.

Unlike you, I understand the much greater implications of the actual proposed legislation, and I understand the difference between "conversion" therapy and "reparative" therapy.

I don't know that teen suicides are "thru the roof" because of such actions by parents and religious counselors. I do know there are tens of millions of victims of sexual abuse, violent abuses and psychological abuse as children. I do know that there are millions of perpetrators of sexual violent against children and adults. I know that many sex and child predators were themselves victims in their childhood. And many of those victims and many of those predators have very messed up psychological disturbances in regards to sexual identity, sex-gender desires, and highly disturbed issues that need to be addressed.

 

The only law that would be reasonable to pass would be to ban specific therapy in relation to psychiatrists and psychologists (they really shouldn't be grouped together) such as banning electro-shock therapy, starvation and other physical conditioning therapies, particularly for children. Otherwise, even the professional associations are not qualified to make generalized restrictions.

A large percentage of psychologists work with family courts, juvenile courts, family counseling, marriage counseling etc. Virtually none have a practice in areas involving severe sex violence victims and even less with sex predators. I suspect few to none are qualified to do so.

A large percentage of psychiatrists work with courts, police, and other areas also unrelated to those topics. Having them set absolute generic rules via laws would be like passing laws suggested by a board of dentists defining restrictions on heart surgery and treating cancer.

VERY few psychiatrists will accept patients with extreme sexuality/predatory practices or natures. It is an extreme field of extreme issues and may involve extreme therapy tactics with significant risks. They are unqualified to deal with it, know they are not and don't want to anyway.

 

My post should have read, "your attempt to partisanize"
This is about "sexual orientation".
Overall, you're all over the map.
I'm beginning to think the electro-schock therapy you've been ranting about comes from personal experience.

 

Absurd to simultaneously support conversion therapy for gender while banning conversion therapy for sexual orientation. This belief that sexual orientation is fixed at birth and unchangeable while gender can be changed at any time through out ones life.

 

You're all over the map here....inserting things that have nothing to do with the Oregan ban or this topic in general.

The only form of therapy being banned here is conversion "therapy" that has time and time again been proven to be completely unaffective and more harmful than anything else. Its religious driven dogma that is more often than not carried out by untrained individuals or pastors who are selling a lie and calling it gospel.

It's a risk for these kids and that is shown in the drastic spike of teen suicides when they are forced into this form of barbarism.

 

At least the bill leaves psychiatrists off the list.

The bill bans all others from any counseling for anyone who wants to change sexual preferences or orientation to being gay, but allows counseling for any kid to change his gender.

So a parent cannot take their child for counseling over sexuality, but a parent can take their child to counseling to convince the child to have his genitals removed or to have the child become transgendered or a transsexual.

The bill specifically prohibits attempts to counsel a kid to not be gay, but does not do the opposite in terms of therapy to convert a straight kid to becoming gay.

So... the only therapy allowed is towards converting children to being transgendered, transsexual, homosexual or bisexual. A heterosexual kid CAN become those, but a homosexual kid can't be heterosexual. The "born to be gay" but none born to be straight thing.

Yes, that's how radical LGTBQs would want it worded.

BUT, apparently they did NOT want to take on the actual psychiatric experts, so excluded them from the issue and discussion.

https://olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/2015R1/Downloads/MeasureDocument/HB2307/Introduced

 

yes, that is correct

deviant sexual behaviors are encouraged

 

Praying the gay away doesn't work. If an adult wants to subject himself to exorcism more power to them, but it's wrong to expose a child to it.

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There's no proof that praying the gay away works anymore than "praying for a bigger penis" does, so a child shouldn't be a guinea pig in some magical "experiment".

Most of the groups I know of that promote "conversion therapy" are fundamentalist cults.

 

do you support giving hormones to little children in preparation of lopmydickoffme or addadicktome surgery?

 

Don't think that is the cause of the suicides.

 

Nope, I don't think anyone under 18 should be doing that (if at all).

They can't make the parents "accept" their kids' sexuality. But I think it's fair for a US state to decide if it doesn't want "gay exorcisms" being allowed for underage kids.

If there's a way to change sexuality at all it's not through Medieval era rituals that's for sure.

 

What in the world makes you think any of us care what your buybull has to say about anything??

 

I bet you just made that up.

 

When you see a jump in teen suicides when these teens are subjected to conversion "therapy"...it's pretty easy to see the link.

Even the founders of these "therapy" organizations admit that they aren't changing anything. The founder of Exodus the largest conversion "therapy" organization admitted he had never change his sexuality from homosexual to heterosexual, and is now married to his male partner.

So please. Keep trying.

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Good for you. Google is your friend. Look it up.

 

The problem for transgendered, transsexual. queer and gay youths, particularly males, does not just come from the anti-gay, religious heterosexual community. It also comes from old gay activists and those buying into modern gay-activism - demanding their slogans and compliance as a peer pressure.

We met today with a young adult male we had economically helped finally get out of a very negative home in relation to him being both gay and a tranny. However, now he’s on his own economically. The next question is which way for him to head in his life. He goes clubbing every chance he gets, has no shortage of friends and is very outgoing. Sometimes he goes in drag. Sometimes not. He’s never had to buy a drink in life, there’s always someone willing to do that, and in contests people throw money at him, but was still living at home, very negative towards him for being gay and going drag.

He showed us a few videos of his entering club contests in drag. He wins every one. Told us he had been offered $200 a night plus tips to work at one (that’s be over $100,000 a year) and had gotten offers to relocate at the employer’s expense to two different metro cities, one offering a higher salary and the other promising to “make you a millionaire quickly.” To feel comfortable with our view, we showed them to some gays we know (both genders), some highly educated, attractive and with various gender and sexuality divergencies themselves. We also wanted a professional opinion from someone highly educated, licensed and experienced in gender and sexuality topics.

All of them shared our opinion. O! M! G! That’s kid’s got it. Never seen anyone as good. And naturally. In drag. Out of drag. Just in life. It’s who he is. Attracts gay men like vultures to roadkill. It’s not just he has the physique, look, face, body language and demeanor to come off as a super cute young woman. That is rare, but not that rare. He is FAR more unique. He comes across as a very graceful, sleek, high energy, funny loving (but not silly) ultra cute, boyish, highly feminine male - even in drag, especially in drag. He’s great at trying to come across as a cute girl. But off-the-charts awesome as feminque male in drag. Why? Because he doesn't have to do any acting. That really is exaclty who he is. He’s also clean. No drugs. Not a prostitute. Not a drunk.

One of the annoying aspects of so many gays is they go into "the act." Maybe they do it well, maybe not, but they go into character. He's doesn't have to do that. He just has to be himself. Take him out of drag, out of the club, just living his life? Exactly the same behavior. It's just who he is.

So our mentoring to him? EMBRACE IT! Seize upon it. Maximize it, now, and to build his life around this. Professionally. Socially. Merge your real self with your social self with your professional self. And to do so quickly as a person only stays young for so long and he needs to embed this integration into his whole life and whole future. He knew this, but his whole life he had gotten so much NEGATIVE from BOTH sides he couldn’t believe what he knew about himself.

Why do I say both sides? Because to old gays and gay slogans, he’s transgendered. Trying to convince him that REALLY he’s a female inside. That he should stop DENIAL of this and stop pretending he’s male. That he was BORN feminine and he should throw off the guilt and conditioning putting him into self-denial. That he would be happier as a female and, ultimately, with SRS. Yet he has NO desire to be a female, none.

All his life he was getting hit and ground down from both sides. Anti-gay relatives AND gays/activists telling him also to not be himself. He likes exactly who he is. He’s not female. He’s not a she-male. He’s not transgendered. He LIKES being male. Specifically, he likes being a highly feminique gay male. That’s who he is, so that’s what he wants to be and should be. Without realizing it, that has more restrained him than even his family as he knew they were wrong about him. The gays/activists seemingly were on his side, but actually they were against him too – also trying to tell him to be what he’s not.

I hate modern gay slogans because they are as much a trap against individuality as anti-gay religious slogans. Why he is like he is? Too complex to calculate. His childhood was a constantly changing and never a good one being passed around among various relatives, all bad ones but in different ways. Maybe it has to do with that is how he is more attractive and desirable so unspoken praises he precieved past the negatives, combined with the perfect physique and face for this. A million $$ in cosmetic surgery couldn't match what he naturally is. Very sleek, feminine, graceful. Maybe, maybe, maybe. Gay slogans are that everyone is born straight or gay, now possibly bisexual as the new 3rd way a person is born. Even some are born transgendered. What about the other 1000 different natures and personalities a person is or becomes?

I don’t think of itself conversion therapy causes suicide. Parents have been dragging kids into intense religious counseling or even non-religious counseling trying to change their children’s behavior for generations. Religious counseling to try to make someone straight is BS, but the causes and complexities of teen suicides are far too complex to point at one thing and say that's the cause. An otherwise mentally healthy kid will just blow it off, and maybe do the act to partronize their parents when having to, nothing more.

Mouthy, demanding old gays and gay activists/supporters with their grotesquely oppressive slogans also are very much a part of the problem - now that REALLY being yourself is ENTIRELY possible in current society. Sure, there are communities that don't accept LGTBs. There also are communities that don't accept white people, that don't accept Christians, that don't accept black people, that don't accept conservatives, that don't accept... But, now, everyone can find their place under the sun in the USA. Old gays and gay activists/supporters try as hard to tell people "be what I tell you to be because I know what's best for you" as much as do conservative Christians of negative beliefs.

 

Also note that there is zero medical proof that conversation therapy works. No clinicals, no trials, there isn't even a theory.

Tambourine shaking and snake handling doesn't cure anything. It's as effective as voodoo.

 

You shouldn't be allowed to psychologically experiment on your children. And because conversion therapy has no clinical trials it's hypothetical and thus all treatment is merely experimental.

It's called abuse in any other case.

 

I've never read of tamborourine shaking or snake handling being used for conversion rituals.

 

Rituals aren't valid therapy. It doesn't really matter what they do it's all voodoo.

 

Just as there is zero medical proof that gender conversion therapy works, and yet the therapy continues to be used.