Rand Paul - Potential 2016 Presidential Bid

Ron Paul was disliked by his party but loved by independents, the youth, and the military. He had the youth vote, but they were unwilling to vote for Romney.

 

I am not mischarterizing anything as far as I understand. He is a Libertarian like his father no?

1) When we have acquired over 16 trillion in debt and have not raised taxes in 20 years all the while having the lowest taxes in history, no one should be trying to sell the American people the snake oil that is "across the board tax cuts".
2) I am going to need proof he supports it. I can believe that though. Most libertarians only support the laws they support, just like you, me or anyone else.
3) Of course not. I was being a troll and mocking Rand Paul when I said it. I did not expect you too take it so serious. But if you would like for me to go off and name the reasons the GOP lost I can. And I think we can all agree the American people have flattly rejected the idea that we can tax cut and deregulate ourselves out of this mess.

 

The polls showing just the opposite were linked here 101 times..... Ron Paul did very well head to head against Obama.

 

I am sure you think everyone that is not trapped in the Libertarian circle is a 'partisan'. But some of us make reasonable assessments based off the facts that are given. Goes no further then that for me. The Progressives tend to do that more often then anyone else, so they side with me (or I with them) more often.

Apologist? Lol You are a Ron Paul supporter. You guys are probably the biggest apologist our political atmosphere has ever experienced.

 

Ehh.... No..

 

Strange i see a few ties a couple with Paul +1 and many with Obama between +1and +3. Considering the margin of errors on polling... All this while his own party did nothing but trash him.

Paul had much support with the Independents and the youth two groups that Obama decimated Romney on.....

 

Ok? Romney won Indies by like 6-8 points still lost by 3 nationally, and he is going to compete with Obama's strongest group (youngin's) all the while maintain a base that does not want him to be there in the first place? Not likely. If he ran he would not win the youth vote, he would win indies, but not put a significant enough dent in the D vote, and would turn off too many R's (That don't want him) to formulate a coalition to get into the white-house Vs Obama at least. There is a outside shot of the 60 million or so not participants coming in a shaking things up but usually they fall about 50/50 and if you can't hook'em early I would not like my chances with new voters if I was Ron Paul in the General.

Ron Paul supporters love to tout how 'diverse' his stances are and how he can cover most ideologies, which is true. But as a blue dog he is far too fringe for me on far too many things.

Would love for him to come through and balance my check book though.

 

No one is like his father. He was a gem.

This makes no sense at all. We are too big and onerous for the declining middle class tax base. You think the middle class can bear the tax burden forever. Those people making $250k a year can't keep going at that rate especially with businesses lowering salaries and sending even white collar jobs to India and China.

There is a finite amount of money in circulation. The rest is in offshore savings.

You know very little about libertarians. Rand Paul is a Republican with libertarian leanings.

Really, this just shows that you see through a partisan lens.

 

Yah but you ignored that the most recents (the height of the campaign and people knowledge of Paul's stances) he was down double digits 3 times, barely within the margin of error once, and 3 points out of the margin of error.

Mind you he beat Obama in a Rasmussen poll. The same pollster that had Romney winning nationally by one point before election day.............. they were off by 4 points. The biggest miss of the Cycle.

 

Taxes have been MUCH MUCH higher in this country and we did fine. A 3% increase will not be as detrimental as you are making it out too be.
And As far as I know no one is proposing a tax increase on the middle class.
..............and white collar jobs are growing so fast we have to recruit guys from India and Korea.. trust me... I am a technician.

I know alot about Libertarians, but very little about Rand Paul.

You know very little about what I know very little about.

Like how? How is stating that the GOP lost, and by extension their policies were rejected, mean I see through a partisan lens?

Thats what it means to lose an election. To have your ideas rejected in favor of something else.

 

I think Libertarians need to come to terms with the fact that their ideology was rejected nation wide versus one of the weakest GOP fields ever. Not only that but they (Ron Paul) spent more money per vote then any other candidate in the race. Ron Paul is so revered eh? he such an awesome guy? Well just remember he could not beat Rick Santorum or Slick Mitt in vital 'Liberal' states during the primaries, and lost outright to Mitt in VA.

Imagine if the Progressive ideology had been rejected in that manner while being lead by FDR? JFK? LBJ? Bill "what is the meaning of 'is' " Clinton?

Or if the same happened to Reagan and his brand of moderate Conservatism?

I think the people have spoken.

 

I think Dems need to look at the growing liberty movement in college campuses that is replacing the Democrat and liberal groups and realize people want freedom.

Or not...I'd like you guys to lose next time so...keep believing what you believe.

 

Thinking Ron Paul would have beat Obama, or even come close, is wishful thinking at it's most desperate. Not only did Ron Paul lose the primaries, every one, but he lost by large margins. The only place that Paul had done well, which is only a select list of polls, not actual votes, is on the internet, where the bulk of his supporters tended to be.

Ron Paul had a decent message, but he was the wrong man for the job because he was just too far out there for most people to get behind. He had admirable qualities, ones that I wish were mirrored more in our mainstream politicians, but the fact is, he was just too extremist for most people to swallow. Good or bad, right or wrong, it's the truth. Ron Paul wanted a revolution, and most people don't want a revolution, they want evolution. It's why I supported Gary Johnson, and voted for him, but would have never in a million years cast a vote for Paul. I can be on board with his message, but not his plans, I just don't see good coming from such abrupt and systemic change, even with the best intentions at heart.

 

I like you so I won't insert the usual: do you have any idea how the primary system works, how it is influenced, and the general public lack of understanding of when they are allowed to vote?

He's not out there--well, since the world has gone stupid, I imagine people would think someone talking about freedom and personal responsibility might seem mad to someone. This "Ron Paul is a kook" meme is perpetrated by the same types of non-guitar playing people who say that Jimmy Page is sloppy. Someone heard it, repeated it, now its true.

 

According to quite a few PF libertarians, Rand Paul fits into that category.

 

And the quest for purity continues.

 

He's not as awesome as his father, no. I will admit that I was a bit against him myself until I saw him (*)(*)(*)(*) on Paul Krugman and the TSA.

 

The worst libertarian platform of all is the idea of open borders via the "free flow of labor" concept. Any criticism of it is met with "why do you hate the free market, bro? Dude, it's like, freedom, man. Stop empowering the state! Why do you hate freedom?"

 

That's a good point. Libertarians have a long way to go trying to earn enough of the middle to win elections. Purity is not going to be a winning strategy, unless the Libertarian base is content to simply reside in the sub 1% range.

 

Don't misunderstand. I'll gladly take my chances with him over the Bushes, Romneys, Santorums, and Gingriches of the world. Doesn't mean I can't be concerned, though.

 

Some libertarians believe that the American people are going to turn away from big Government over the course of one election cycle. That suddenly millions of blacks and Latinos will buck their long term trend because of the war on drugs issue.

 

Some libertarians are probably right.

 

You don't think that's a big issue to them? Libertarians would gain a ton of minority support in that case. Peoples fathers, brothers, sons, locked in a cage for no reason......

You bet it'd have a lot of support.

 

The worst mayor Los Angeles has ever had... one heartbeat away from being President.

Thanks. My nightmare queue is full til the end of the month.

 

Redistribution is their real drug of choice. Unless libertarians run on that issue, they don't have a chance, marijuana or no marijuana.