Rejecting the God that can be seen exists from His works is hateful. For example, the existence of God is absolutely necessary by cause of reason. We can create a new thread to discuss why, of course, but this is a fact, well-known before the current antitheistic movement and continuously validated thereafter. So examples of rejecting God are: Atheism - rejecting the very existence of God; Islam - rejecting the nature of God; Judaism - rejecting the works of God past an arbitrary length of time; Idol and Ancestor Worship - rejecting the omnipotence of God; and other examples may be given. And yes, a refusal to acknowledge the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is rejection and hatefulness. However, keep in mind that I am not the final authority on this - God will, of course, give a far more accurate and well-formed answer than I am capable of providing.
If one believes God exist and rejects him I understand that that is hateful, but if a person is unsure that God exist I don't see that as hateful. Not trying to argue just trying to figure it all out. Also when will God give us a more well formed answer? It would be nice to know now before it is to late. Is that to much to ask for? He is the almighty so I assume he does have the power to let us know. Why leave people even with a shadow of a doubt if he can make it quite clear right now? That would change the world.
once again, Chuck, you're caught in the bibliocentric bubble - making a show of looking out. you ascribe actual emotions about god to atheists. that is downright kooky, my man. do you have actual real, palpable emotions regarding the fairies at the bottom of your garden? welcome to our viewpoint
In his text, I see one direct mention of atheism, to wit: "So examples of rejecting God are: Atheism - rejecting the very existence of God; Islam - rejecting the nature of God; Judaism - rejecting the works of God past an arbitrary length of time; Idol and Ancestor Worship - rejecting the omnipotence of God; and other examples may be given.": And in that paragraph, I see nothing that relates to any emotion. Where do you get the notion of emotions being involved in his text?
Several religions have been mentioned and those who participate in different religions have faith that their religion is the right religion. How does a person know they are involved in the right religion? When a person has a negative view of other religions and the other religions have a negative of yours, Well that's a lot of negativity. Now if everyone just believed in God and no religion things would be much smoother.
But to me, once you start defining 'god', even in non existence, you start a 'religious' or philosophical view. If a bunch of people with the same views get together, that makes it organized, but it does not change the root belief or philosophy. There are organized groups of atheists.. are they 'a religion?' The La Jolly cactus society is a group enthusiastic about cacti, and i'm sure you don't begrudge them the right to meet & show their collective appreciation for succulents. Why cannot people with philosophical views do the same? IMO, that is all religions are. All the negative stuff you talk about is when people lose their perspective & tolerance. They take themselves too seriously & see others as a threat. But i see many skeptics here doing the exact same thing. It is the pot calling the kettle, black. I'm all for people promoting tolerance. That is what america is about.. freedom & liberty, free speech & exercise of religion. Lately, though, it seems many of the 'irreligious' are campaigning to squelch the freedoms of the religious, on the trumped up charge of 'intolerance'. It is very ironic, since their intolerance is the basis for their attempted silencing of the religious 'opposition'. Why not just let 'live & let live?' If someone believes in a supernatural power, or if they believe in nothing, what difference does it make, as long as they aren't trying to oppress the rest of us? I say, let's keep religious freedom in america, & don't embrace secular humanism as the state religion, excluding all others.
I agree with this post. I believe in freedom of religion. I don't think religion should be forcibly removed. I think people would be better off without it, that's all.
Man created religion not God and when Jesus started His ministry He preached the good news of the kingdom of God; he did not preach the good news of the religion of God. Most Christians have no clue of what God is about, because they have been in a state of deception by their denomination. It’s what their particular denomination teaches that they care about…..they could not careless what the Bible have to say, excepting for the parts that they agree with.
I stay out of religion and away from religious people as much as it is possible. One cannot accomplish what God expect of His people by trying to work with religious people (I have tried), because they see things from a religious point of view, instead of from the position of a citizen of the kingdom of God. As a citizen of God's kingdom one has certain rights and privileges that someone that is not does not have. For example, if one is a citizen of the kingdom of God there is no reason why they should be poor because God is not poor. Christians don't work together to help each other the way for example, the Jews or even the rich. I have noticed how both set of people help each other in business because I use to work for a company that was owned by a Jew. Early Christians did not think and act the way Christians do today.....they did the same thing that we see the Jews do today. If they needed someone to make a dress or make a tent, and someone among them are skilled in that field then they will give their business to that member instead of going outside the Church. God has given His people various gifts, and they are to use those gifts for the benefit of others and work with each other to have influence in society; that is what some of Jesus' parables were about. When I say influence, I don't mean to make politicians make laws against certain lifestyles per say. But that they should be in a position where they will be listened to when they speak, just like when people like Donald Trump or some other celebrity speaks he or she word is valued. But one cannot be in that position if they are poor or struggling financially. When you are poor no one cares or think you have anything to say that is worth listing to.
Religion is mind control. It was created by those who appointed themselves as Kings. It worked and so it was perpetuated. Then the Kings declared that they owned the land and that the masses had to pay him to live there. Cognitive dissonance is that filter in the head that explains away contradictions to confirm the original belief. Its a powerful form of lying to yourself, so powerful, in fact, that you dont know you are doing it. We must take our freedoms away to protect our liberties is a classic example of cognitive dissonance in action.
But there is a far greater mind control today........its called the television. With that corporations influence and subconsciously cause people to spend, spend and spend into debt. With it the media is able to twist and shape what people believe is important, such as what are the kardashain doing today or is going to wear and some of the other mindless things that is shown on it. With it woman are told that only skinny women are beautiful and that physical appearance is what's important and that if you are not popular you are nobody. So there is far more brainwashing going on now than any religion has ever done.
I understand, and if I seem like I'm trying to pretend I have all the answers, I apologize - I certainly don't. I believe that God has made it clear already, since the earth itself is a testament to His existence, His power, and His intelligence. He gave us the conscience to let us know when we do things that are wrong, although He gives us the power and free will to override the conscience. However, the "answer" to which I referred is actually Judgement OR something rather more esoteric. I believe that we can still "speak" to God, as many of the "mystical" religions claim. Not that I have done so... The doubt is, Biblically speaking, the fault of the doubters. When I doubt - and I do! - it is my fault alone. I think that we all are too happy to lay the blame on someone other than ourselves - in this case, we, the creation, dare to inform our Creator that He messed up, somehow. I don't think that's the right way to look at it.
This is dangerous thinking - It is harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle. But all things are possible with God. I don't believe it is Scripturally accurate to claim that the citizens of the Kingdom of Heaven have more rights than anybody else (except for the use of the Keys, but that is purely a theological matter and not a material one). Beware preachers like Joel Osteen, who claim that God wants everyone to be rich, when Jesus told the rich young man to give all his belongings to the poor. He also claims that all ways lead to God, when Jesus makes it clear that "No one can come to the Father except through Me." The possession of wealth is not, of itself, immoral, but: You cannot serve both God and mammon (greed/money).
Yes, I am quite Bible-centered - or, at least, I aspire to be. I do not, however, "make shows." I am not an entertainer, nor would I be a popular one if I was. However, to your point: I did not address an atheist - rather, I addressed an individual whose stated view was roughly "I believe in God, but not religion." I tailored my response to him rather than reply to your post and his simultaneously - this would be a fruitless endeavor, since the topics under discussion are different for different conversations. Do you not understand what the term "atheist" means? It does not mean "a theist." It means "not theist." Or are you of the mindset that maintains that all discussions must be about you? Or did you merely make a mistake, as humans are prone to do? Regardless, Incorporeal is quite correct in maintaining that I did not refer to emotion in any form whatsoever in my post. So, my "downright kookiness" appears to be an unfortunate fabrication.
Where did you get the idea that the keys to the kingdom are a theological matter? Is the kingdom of God a real and literal kingdom or a theological one? Is Jesus a literal king or is He just a theological king? God does not use and change the meaning of the word human beings use and are well familiar with. So the keys to the kingdom mean that one has access to everything that is in the kingdom. And what is in the kingdom? Everything that one could possibly need.....security, wealth, success, power, and the list is endless. The problem with modern Christianity is that they don't believe what they read in the Bible.....they spiritualize away a lot of things. But when the early Christians were told that Jesus is a king they knew perfectly well what it meant, because they lived in a time were kings and lord ruled over Nations. When they were told about the kingdom of God they knew that it was a real and literal kingdom, because that's the way it was in their day.....that is why God inspired His word to be written back then and not in our time. My friend there are rights and privileges that a child of the kingdom of God has that no one outside of it will have, you just were not told possibly because those you listen to themselves don't know it or don't believe it. For example, the right to the tree of life. Revelation 22:14 (ASV) 14 Blessed are they that wash their robes, that they may have the right to come to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city. To be a citizen means that you have rights that someone that is not a citizen does not have or else what would be the purpose for being a citizen? Only child of God will have the right and privilege to rule with Jesus when He returns to the Earth. Jesus never told the disciples to sell all that they had. Jesus knew that the rich man had something that would have held him back from doing what He wanted His disciples to do. That is why Jesus asked him that question, but Jesus never intended for him to become His disciple. And I'm not a listener of Joel Osteen or any of the televangelist.....I have no opinion about him one way or the other. There is a big difference between having wealth and serving it. God is wealthy but He does not serve His wealth. God's children in glory are going to be totally wealthy, beyond measure and live in a city that is made of transparent gold, where the streets are paved with gold and pearls at the gates. Glory and beauty are going to be constantly added to the City forever.
BFSmith@764(*), I agree that TV is huge mind control device. Between religion and Tv hardly anyone thinks for himself. They are not so much on to the skinny women thing anymore. There are lots of fatties showing up in ads, which isn’t good because it just encourages them to overeat and stay fat. They should be teaching them to set their body image by the teens. Once set it is automatic. I did it and I have as an adult maintained 110-112. Appestat continues to work. There seems to be an automatic metabolism regulator too. I can pig out during holidays and still not get fat. Back to religion…..I strongly object to their meddling in the private lives of others - such as the abortion issue. They have too much influence in government. Those elected “servants” seem to forget that they should leave their religious beliefs at the door. You bible believers do know don’t you that your bible has been translated and edited many times. Many words have been mistranslated, others deliberately changed; there have been whole sentences deleted and others added. King James wanted to be sure that it said Kings have a divine right to rule. Charles Nicholson, do you believe that Kings have a divine right to rule? Do you believe that the Jews are God’s chosen?
But yet when atheist talk about brainwashing they fail to see that the television as a tool that is being used for mind control. They are a victim of mind control without even knowing it. But right or wrong that trend is still being created by the media......they are still trying to reshape what the masses think is acceptable. I guess we are talking about two different things because I was not talking about religion. What I'm talking about is deeper than what right wing evangelical Christians have been doing. But before Christians can even think of influencing those outside the Church, they first need to be more at one with each other inside the Church......right now, people in Church are too individualistic......they have bought into the American way of life instead of the kingdom way of life. But if I have a particular belief I cannot split myself in two and say this part of me believe this but on the other hand I have to forget about my conviction and support this instead. That kind of thing is called by various names, such as hypocrisy, double standard and in the Bible it is called double minded. I always find it a bit humorous that those who are not Christians and never study the Bible telling me that the Bible has been translated many times as if we don't know that, as if we think the original language that the Bible was written in is English. The Church I went to have members all over the world that speak, Spanish, English, French and other languages. So you are not really informing me by telling me what we already know. The Bible says that it is God who set up kings or rulers over Nations and remove them. But the Bible also tells us that one day the saints are going to become kings over all the Nations of the Earth and they will rule for a thousand years, and after that, they will rule over the entire universe forever.
So you think that people who go to church should have a "hive mind". Yes, I know that you know that your bible has been translated and edited many times, but still you say it is the word of God, when it is really the word of man, written to control others. So you're OK with Kings? You don't think that it is possible that bold, strong leaders declared themselves Kings, do you? And then they appointed Priests to say that God did it. Are you OK with God's "chosen"?
No. Let me ask you this; when the boss of a company dictates to his secretary his thoughts and she writes them down, whose words is it is she writing on the page his or her own? Its not a matter of me being ok or not ok with kings. Without going into a lot of details the fact is that God wants His children to rule......this was what God wanted Adam and Eve to do when He made them. So its not we that will declaring ourselves kings it is God. In fact, the Bible says saints are already kings and as you will see in both of the verses below the saints are also priests as well. Revelation 5:8-10 (KJV) 8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Revelation 1:6 (NKJV) 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. God will allow mankind to bring themselves to a point where they will want God's people to be their rulers. They will see the end result of their Satan inspired civilization, which only almost brought them to near self-annihilation because of their greed, lust for power and control........this is where the world is heading as we speak. There are people in the U.S government and outside of it and abroad that are working tirelessly to bring about a global government.....they are laying the foundation for that. That is why they have set up there world wide spying apparatus, and the other things that they have been doing after 9/11. They had to create terror and then blame it on terrorist the same way they wanted to blow up an American ship and blame it on Castro. Its not about fighting terrorism that's just what they want everyone to believe.
So you think "the boss" dictated the changes? You don't think that men with nefarious motives had something to do with it? Don't you know that most Kings have been very self-centered, and cared not for the people they were "ruling". The Kings charged the people fees to live on "his" land. That is where the term "fee simple" that is on your property deed comes from, and is just as applicable today as it was then. You pay a "fee" to the Royals of Britain to live on the land that you thought you owned. So the "saints" are Kings? There are quite a few of them then aren't there? Will they be charging a fee for the use of their land? And the Priests are Kings too...does that include the pedophile priests? Or the likes of Alexander VI (Roderic de Borgia), Benedict IX, Sergius III, John XII, Leo X. Innocent IV, Urban VI, John XV, or Clement VII?
If you think you have any evidence to prove your statement please present it. And what does selfish kings have to do with the saints who will be found worthy to rule with Jesus? Well, the owner has every right to charge rent or a fee to live on his land. You obviously have not read much of the Bible at all or else you would not ask that question. And like I said before, God is going to allow human beings to carry out their system of governments almost to its destructive end. Then intervenes just before man is about to commit self-genocide. So not long after that the few people of the Nations that are left, will gladly seek out God to show them how to live the right way. Isaiah 2:2-4 (BBE) 2 And it will come about in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord will be placed on the top of the mountains, and be lifted up over the hills; and all nations will come to it. 3 And the peoples will say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob: and he will give us knowledge of his ways, and we will be guided by his word; for out of Zion the law will go out, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. 4 And he will be the judge between the nations, and the peoples will be ruled by his decisions: and their swords will be turned into plough-blades, and their spears into vine-knives: no longer will the nations be turning their swords against one another, and the knowledge of war will be gone for ever. So the saints will not have to demand of them a fee because they will gladly of their own free will offer to do so. They will be so happy that they will come a worship before the feet of the saints. The Greek that is translated worship is proskyneō and it means to Kiss, like a dog licking its master's hands. Revelation 3:9 (KJV) 9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. They will be so excited because people will remember what the world was like before; filled with greed, corruption in governments, innocent people being killed as a result of being invaded by another Country, and all kinds of crimes and violence and discrimination, sex abuse of all kinds. Imagine living in a world where prices go down instead of going up and no poor Country or Country that is in debt or poor people. So they won't be able to prevent themselves from expressing there gratitude to Jesus and the saints for what they have made the world become. They no longer have to fear crime, because there is none. No corruption because they can see all the evidence around that that their leaders are not. It will be like a dream that has come true because even the animals will be at peace other animals and with man. Isaiah 11:1-9 (ASV) 1 And there shall come forth a shoot out of the stock of Jesse, and a branch out of his roots shall bear fruit. 2 And the Spirit of Jehovah shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah. 3 And his delight shall be in the fear of Jehovah; and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither decide after the hearing of his ears; 4 but with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and decide with equity for the meek of the earth; and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth; and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his waist, and faithfulness the girdle of his loins. 6 And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea.
