Return to Natural, Edenic Paradise? Not So Fast, even in "protected" areas

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by JBG, Dec 8, 2023.

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Return to Natural, Edenic Paradise?

  1. Can be done, should be done, must be done

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  2. Done as much as possible

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  3. Impossible, pipe dram

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  4. Others or people who have voted, post away

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  1. JBG

    JBG Well-Known Member

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    Can we, even in National Parks and wilderness areas, restore a pre-(white man) settlement Eden in the New World? I don't think so.

    I recently finished reading The Return of Wolves: An Iconic Predator’s Struggle to Survive in the American West by Eli Francovich. This book focuses on unique conditions (maybe not so unique) in eastern Washington state. Closer to where I live, we have an apparent beginning of a return of wolves to upstate New York, see Wolves Return to New York Adirondacks? (probably).

    This subject has always been a favorite of mine. Unlike many "nature" books, this author recognizes that that wolves are not an unmixed blessing to the wild.

    Eastern Washington State, and to a lesser extent Montana, Oregon and northern California are an interesting amalgam of a conservative, anti-wolf minority ensconced in deeply liberal, urban-dominated states. This author makes the point, interestingly, that wolves may never have been as abundant as mythologized. After American Indian populations were severely reduced by epidemics of smallpox and other diseases, buffalo and wolf populations apparently had a temporary explosion, terminated by the spread of white man through the Plains and mountains to the West. Reproducing pre-settlement conditions may be impossible, since the Native Americans are missing as the ultimate keystone predator. The American Indians kept prey and thus wolf populations in check. This is more thoroughly discussed in the book 1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus by Charles C. Mann. Pre-Columbian America was far from an Edenic ideal, see the excellent book War Before Civilization: The Myth of the Peaceful Savage by Lawrence H. Keeley.
     
  2. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Pro-wolf sentiment is directly proportional to one's residential distance from wolves.
     
  3. JBG

    JBG Well-Known Member

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    I have an animal that is 98% wolf living down the street. He fetches calls and asks to be petted. Is that close enough proximity?
     
  4. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Dangerous Dog Alert: Wolf Hybrids More Likely to Bite
    upload_2023-12-8_18-39-29.png
    Keller & Keller
    https://www.2keller.com › library › dangerous-dog-al...


    While wild wolves almost never attack humans, wolf-dog hybrids kill an estimated one dozen people each decade. Which Dogs Are Wolf Hybrids? Wolf hybrids are ...
     
  5. JBG

    JBG Well-Known Member

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    I am not referring to wolf hybrid. I am referring to a goldendoodle. They are virtually identical to wolves chromosomally.
     
  6. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    But not behaviorally. There's an excellent book on this topic, The Invaders by Pat Shipman.
     
  7. JBG

    JBG Well-Known Member

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    I was hit by the tail of a very large Goldendoodle. That is their form of wolflike behavior.
     
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