Russian Oligarchs - Lets get em

Biden tossed around going after the evil Russian Oligarchs.. Tough one this is I think .. never really been done before .. going after the rich folks of a nation who invades or assists invasion of another.

The more I think about it .. the more I am warming to the idea .. something has to be done - these Oligarchs around the world have been waging war on the Planet for numerous decades .. centuries really. Wealth inequality in the world is a problem .. Lets get em !

 

Karma is more like a female dog looking to get pregnant, but your point is taken.

I heard a story about a middle class couple closing on the house, but it got delayed because their bank account got frozen somewhere in the EU. I am hopeful it will happen, but politics never really goes my way, so I'm not optimistic.

 

I think target on a case by case basis.

Does said oligarch have a history of being outspoken against Putin, for Putin, or are they neutral?

 

Very double edged sword this one.. - only reason such a thing is "thinkable" - is because US controls international system of payments .. and it is the "SOLE" system -- and the writing is on the wall - a competitor is coming soon due to pushing the "economic nuclear option" button one too many times .. and for other reasons. So I suppose make hay while sun shines..

but, this is bad precedent in so many other ways .. won't just be the rich targeted .. but never mind .. don't want the rich to be targeted either. You can't have the world operating like this .. the system would collapse - systems of credit and trade .. something new to replace .. but this representing a new global order.

The day you wake up in the morning and there is a legit competitor to the US dollar - international system of payments - SWIFT - is the day the History books will record as the defacto end of the US economic Empire .. Full Stop ...

 

Dude, Switzerland, who literally refused to go against Hitler, says, “nah, bruh, not gonnadoit,” has taken a side. C’mon. That’s yuge

 

London is known as the laundromat of the world's dirty money. It comes from not only Russia but also the Middle East and it goes into very expensive property, businesses, jewellery, yachts and investments.
There is a law in the UK, not very old, which tries to pick up on spending unexplained wealth.
ONE PERSON who went shopping in London was tried and found guilty. Yet the dirty money swills in and out of the country. They are largely hidden by shell companies and the real owner is hidden behind revolving doors.
Sure you can round up all the oligarchs and freeze their assets but some are citizens (possible bought years ago) and if you did that the major banks would quite possibly fail from loss of customer confidence and balance sheet problems. Companies may well fail.
I suppose anyone with a sense of moral conscience would want to round them all up and hold them as hostage for what Putin is doing. But it isn't as easy as you think.

 

Wealthy people in Russia are already complaining they are being unfairly targeted, without valid reason.

Apparently there are plenty of people on the Progressive Left who believe it's fine to discriminate against people because they have lots of money and happen to be Russian.

However, gathering specific evidence that very wealthy Russian individuals did something wrong may be difficult.
When there is a wealthy Russian person who owns a yacht in Spain, we do not always know if that person actually has so much wealth they could afford a hundred more yachts, or if they were only barely able to afford that yacht.

 

this might do more to create peace on earth than any religion ever could.

my guess : this would be like the world court. ok to try milosevich, but bush and cheney are "exceptional".

 

This is sounding like more like an extension of the Left's crusade against the wealthy.

because it really doesn't sound like you are talking about specific Oligarchs who did something to conspire with Putin.

 

SWIFT is not US owned and controlled; it's an internationally owned and controlled cooperative, with its HQ in Belgium, and facilitates transactions in just about any currency.

 

Not taking sides mate .. just looking at the consequences of going after the rich .. noticed I clicked Yes

 

London and the US actually -- you are correct. and no one will touch it with 10 foot pole .. either you have a safe place to put your money .. or you don't.. but if you do .. it is for everyone that knows how to use it.. .. can't selectively go after someone.. Its where the drug lords keep their money .. the Mafia .. and they need it for the currency or some such thing .. watched a documentary on this not long ago.

and you are absolutely correct that it ain't easy .. suspect this is much talk .. little action

 

I am talking about specific Oligarchs .. look at the Title of the OP .. and the OP Question. "Russian Oligarchs"

The problem is that if you go after one in this way - you go after them all - and more than just Oligarchs - could be regular Joe. So the consequences of this action go well beyond these specific oligarchs - once pandora's box is opened .. its opened.

see post 12 and the post responded to for just a small taste .. and your "Leftist Dream" is bang on the money .. as the justification for this is Utilitarianism - an anathema to individual liberty - Rule of Law .. and so on.

 

All Swift Transactions get resolved in US dollars - and hence at some point go through a US bank.. and thus can be shut down .. which is why the US can use the Economic Nuclear option .. and others can not. So while not "Owned" .. which is a silly term in retrospect - just doesn't fit somehow .. it is controlled by the US .. and the US has a huge stake in the US dollar being the world reserve currency

 

Lol “my bank accounts are frozen so war empowers the poorer,”

the poor, “what’s a bank account?”

 

Why do you always attribute something you don't like to The Left?
Are you saying The Right approve of unaccountable wealth being washed through international banks and businesses?
I would think ANYONE would disapprove of that. Why turn it into a "them and us" issue?

 

No, not all SWIFT transactions get resolved in USD. Certainly a large share are, but an equal share is in Euros. What's more, SWIFT isn't concerned with particular currencies. It's a messaging system facilitating transactions worldwide, in just about any currency. As such, excluding institutions (e.g. Russian banks) makes it difficult for them to conduct international transactions with any country, in any currency. The US can of course also impose it's own sanctions, prohibiting US banks from dealing with certain entities.

"Owned" is not a silly term because SWIFT is owned, by it's shareholders - international financial institutions - and operates per Belgian/EU law. Hence, the US can certainly pressure SWIFT to take particular action but can't force them. Nor can SWIFT decide to take action. It only does so when required by Belgian/EU law but otherwise is neutral.

 

Why would I disapprove of a wealthy person using a bank?

 

That's the point.
No one would
It isn't a bipolar issue.

 

What are you saying the Oligarch's have done wrong that warrants taking their money or freezing their assets?

If there is not a specific transgression that you are pointing to, it is perfectly logical to attribute this mindset to the left because it is the left that is always attacking the rich.

 

Oh do stop the gross generalisations supported by bipartisan fresh air any more and I shall start thinking you arecarguing against the interests of your own country. You know where that may lead, don't you?

 

"Wealthy people in Russia are already complaining they are being unfairly targeted, without valid reason."

the people of Ukraine have the same complaint

 

What gross generalization? That the left villifies the rich and the right supports them?

I suppose you can call that a generalization if you choose, but it is 100% true. If you do not understand this, you do not understand the political landscape in this country.

Generalizations are not always a bad thing when they are true. If a person has the mindset that the wealthy need to be taken down a peg and we need to seize their money for no given reason, you can rest assured that person in not a rightist. Similarly, if a person thinks that we need to immediately curb all fossil fuel use in order to avoid a global disaster, that person is also not a rightist. That generalization is highly predictive of a persons political position. There is nothing wrong with having knowledge of what both sides stand for. In fact, not knowing what each side stands for means that someone does not know what they are talking about in terms of politics.

 

No it is not true
And you do not speak for the entire population including the majority who hold mixed combinations of the issues you have selected and many others too.
And another untruth is that I don't understand the political USA. That was a mistaken guess, just like your other mistaken guesses.
You would perhaps be surprised just how ununique your political landscape is. I suggest it is because you haven't been anywhere else.

 

I am a person that is socially Liberal but fiscally Conservative. I basically support almost all Rightist issues except for Abortion, death penalty, drug laws, gay marriage etc. I FULLY understand the notion of having mixed views but then prioritizing which views are most important to me and using those prioritized views to determine how I vote and how I characterize my political positioning.

With all of that being said, that does not mean that generalizations that are true are not useful. If someone says the generalization that rightists believe in the death penalty, I do not step up and say "you cannot make that claim" by virtue of the fact that I am a rightist and I oppose the death penalty. I instead take the logical step of understanding that my dislike of the death penalty is indicative of me diverting with the right, as opposed to falsely denying that it is correct to generalize that the right supports the death penalty. Of course they do.

I have not made a "mistaken guess". If you do not understand that the left villifiies the rich in this country and the right supports them, then you do NOT understand the political landscape in this country. If you do not have this very basic understanding, then you do NOT understand our political landscape. In truth, I suspect that you DO know it to be the case, rather you are choosing to go the smarmy route of simply denying that you can pin any position as the position of either side. You either do understand it to be the lefts position deep down, or you do not understand that it is their position. IN either case, my statement is 100% true. I am not claiming to know what you do or do not understand, only that if you do NOT understand, then you dont understand our political landscape.

On the other hand, your assertion that I "have not been anywhere else" is a perfect example of your notion of a "mistaken guess". At what point have I contended that the US political landscape is not unique from the rest of the world? Of course it is, and I have said nothing to the contrary.

If you are going to try playing the condescension game, you should probably first make sure that you are correct, lest you make yourself look foolish, no matter where you are from.